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The History Of HALO Operations

 

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Premier slotperfect  (D 13014)

Aug 12, 2004, 4:40 PM
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The History Of HALO Operations Can't Post

The History Of HALO Operations
(In Honor Of Madison Strohlein)


steve1  (D 23640)

Aug 12, 2004, 8:00 PM
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Thanks for the great reading. The equipment they had then was probably really low-tech to what they use now. I went through S.F. training in the early 70's so some of this sounds familiar. I never got HALO school so I don't really know much about their operations or training. The Halo building was next to where we chuted up for our static line jumps so we'd see some of the HALO people at times. It seemed like most were jumping para-commanders when I was at Brag, but I suppose they might also have jumped modified t-10's.

My A-team jumped a C-130 (black bird) once when it was still fairly new. I even got chewed out for taking a picture of it, because some of it's electronic equipment was still classified back then. We were in isolation at camp McCall for a week or so and then flew down to Southern Texas to make a night jump out of it. This was into the desert on a training exercise. It had some type of a terrain following navigation system that could be used in the dark to fly below radar (or so we were told). The green light went on when we were over the D.Z. This was all new back then. We always static-lined out the side doors. I've never tail gated one like the halo people do.

We didn't use weapons containers very often. We'd let the slings way out on our M-16's and carry them over our shoulders. Some people jumped M-14's that way also but these rifles were much longer and their was a chance of the static line wrapping around the muzzle. We used a jungle ruck to carry most of our gear below our reserves. A small piece of string was tied the ruck to your leg and your rifle to your main lift web. This kept them in place when you hit the prop blast. You were supposed to tie a slip knot so you could untie things quick to drop your equipment or get your weapon out. Part of the time it turned into a knot and you could do neither.

A car-15 was a popular weapon back then. It was much shorter than the standard M-16. A friend of mine who served two tours in Vietnam as an advisor still has one in his home for home defense today. So that's about all I know about outdated military equipment and operations.

I have to say that those who served in Vietnam during those years have my respect. It's easy to see why many of them came home suffering from post-tramatic-stress. I enjoy reading war stories, but I doubt if it was any fun being there....Steve1


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Aug 13, 2004, 8:28 AM
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Re: [slotperfect] The History Of HALO Operations [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for the write-upon early US Army HALO operations.
The only other documentation I have found on HALO operations recounts Rhodesian HALO jumps in the late 1970s.
Apparently special forces types are rather shy and don't like their methods being published.


Premier slotperfect  (D 13014)

Aug 13, 2004, 9:01 AM
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Quote:
The only other documentation I have found on HALO operations recounts Rhodesian HALO jumps in the late 1970s.

I would love to read about that if you still have it.


PLFKING  (C 32743)

Aug 13, 2004, 9:13 AM
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Re: [slotperfect] The History Of HALO Operations [In reply to] Can't Post

Very interesting reading.

Thanks, John.


Don


markd_nscr986  (C 11969)

Aug 13, 2004, 9:41 AM
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Quote:
The only other documentation I have found on HALO operations recounts Rhodesian HALO jumps in the late 1970s

I believe there were some "unemployed" US special forces guys that were involved in some of the HALO stuff in Rhodesia both with there paras and and Selous scouts......their names escape me at the moment,but they probably wouldnt want them mentioned anyhow!


steve1  (D 23640)

Aug 13, 2004, 9:43 PM
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In reply to:
Quote:
The only other documentation I have found on HALO operations recounts Rhodesian HALO jumps in the late 1970s

I believe there were some "unemployed" US special forces guys that were involved in some of the HALO stuff in Rhodesia both with there paras and and Selous scouts......their names escape me at the moment,but they probably wouldnt want them mentioned anyhow!

I had a friend (Bill Newmiester) who worked as some type of mercenary in Africa during the later 70's. He was an ex Special Forces medic. When he was finished with S.F. training he returned to our Guard Unit and decided that it was way too much of a joke for him. So he went regular Army. After three years he returned home to Missoula to Smoke Jump. Then he went to Africa. And then back to Smoke Jump in Alaska. I think he may still be Smoke Jumping, but then again he may be getting too old for that sort of thing. Interesting guy. I imagine he was HALO qualified.....Steve1


usskydiver  (D 12780)

Aug 15, 2004, 5:43 PM
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Re: [slotperfect] The History Of HALO Operations [In reply to] Can't Post

Nice read John. See you this weekend.

Tim T.
Team Paraclete


steve1  (D 23640)

Aug 23, 2004, 2:55 PM
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When I was at lost Prairie I jumped with a guy who is a Halo jumpmaster. I'm terrible with names, and forgot it already. But he was truly an interesting individual. He's been in Special Forces for around 20 years and is trying to retire this year if they'll let him. He said that he has a 13 year old son who needs his Dad at home for a change. He said he's spent months and months in Iran and Iraq and he's tired of ending up in the hospital all shot up. He said you wouldn't believe some of the stuff he walked away from over there. I wondered why he had a beard if he's still in the military. I imagine it was to blend in with the locals in the Midddle East....Steve1


reprobate  (Student)

Aug 31, 2004, 12:05 PM
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Re: [slotperfect] The History Of HALO Operations [In reply to] Can't Post

It's LALO rather than HALO, but a Rhodesian I once worked with told me of a brother whose unit jumped static line with no reserve. They exited from 500 ft so they didn't need one.

I asked him if they had a belly or back mount container but he didn't know.

They were a unit of the Selous Scouts and 3 or 4 four man teams would be put out quickly along a line and set up counter ambushes.

They didn't use rucksacks but wore a vest sort of like a photographers vest. I got one of the vests and a pair of boots of the same type they wore. The vest ragged out but the boots are still fine. They are made of buffalo hide with antelope skin rolls and tounge and lining. The sole is a steel belted radial tire that is protection against spikes.


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Sep 1, 2004, 8:36 AM
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Re: static-line jumps during the Rhodesian War.
Four man teams from the Rhodesian Light Infantry often 3 or 4 combat jumps per day from DC-3/C-47 Dakotas.
They would jump ahead of fleeing "terrs" to lay stopper ambushes. Once the terrs were dead, the 4 man teams were helicoptered back to base to prepare for their next mission.
The regimental history of the RLI shows them kitted-up with motorcycle helmets, vest webbing, FN rifles and back-mounted static-line parachutes, but not reserves. Their main canopies were a mixture of T-10s and similar French canopies. Most of their jumps were planned from 500 feet, far too low for reserves to be of any use! A few times pilots mis-read rising terrain and dropped them from 300 feet!
They were tough young men!

Truth is - given the IQ of the average airborne trooper and the low altitudes involved - reserves are useless on most military static-line jumps. All they do is impart a false sense of security. Modern military main static-line canopies are so reliable ....


mr2mk1g  (C 103449)

Sep 1, 2004, 8:52 AM
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Re: [riggerrob] The History Of HALO Operations [In reply to] Can't Post

Reserves are just there for the amusement of those watching. Laugh

When I watch the paras dump out their FJC from a Herc over Weston you get about 10% with a dual out. Often done while kicking out twists, but I once saw a guy (through zoom lens on SLR) pull his reserve instead of releasing his bergen.


slug  (B License)

Sep 2, 2004, 6:20 PM
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Re: [riggerrob] The History Of HALO Operations [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi RR

Hell of a way for a soldier to go to work either: Halo at night or Combat S/L/Frown

Even worse must have been knowing they had to go to "work" more than once a dayCrazy.

IMO all those guy's add a whole new meaning to the term professional.

R.I.P.


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Sep 2, 2004, 8:52 PM
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In reply to:
Hi RR

Hell of a way for a soldier to go to work either: Halo at night or Combat S/L/Frown

Even worse must have been knowing they had to go to "work" more than once a dayCrazy.

IMO all those guy's add a whole new meaning to the term professional.

R.I.P.

Yea, but most of them were just doing it for the pay and health insurance benefits.Tongue
Sparky


StevePhelps  (D 26782)

Sep 17, 2004, 7:29 AM
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Re: [mjosparky] The History Of HALO Operations [In reply to] Can't Post

I was in 5th SFG on a HALO/SCUBA team. One half of us went to SCUBA and one half went to HALO (I went to SCUBA first) When it came time for me to go to HALO I ETSed. My greatest regret in life!
Attachments: SF_photos_1.jpeg (3.85 KB)


26ftconical

Apr 23, 2005, 7:46 PM
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Re: [riggerrob] The History Of HALO Operations [In reply to] Can't Post

rioggerrob:
One of the projects I had at Guardian Parachute was the design od a High Glide Tavtical Parachute for HAHO operations in 1982. My approach to trhe equation P=L/D, Performance =lift over drag. The higher thae number the better the performance. In the design specification we had drafted we were going to attack radar signature, noise and the highest possible p factor with a gross weight of 360 lbs. The MT1X and the MTXX built by ParaFlite had a glide ratio of 1.99:1. So sitting in the saddle at 25000 ft the maximum distance the Jumper could travel was 1.99 X 25000/ 5280=9.42mile in still air.
Their main and reserve canopies were 360 sq.ft in area. Paraflites approach was to maximize lift in the equation and they used the Lissamann Airfoil High lift ,high drag, The Paraflites system weighed 56 lbs.
including double O2 bottles.
My approach was different, I attacked drag, reduce drag to the absolute minimum. I set the angle of attack at -10 degrees to the vertical which set the canopy in flight at 0 degress and minimum footprint. Ater a lengthy study of aspect ratio and drag settled on an aspect ratio of 2.77:1 (Paraflite was 2:1) The higher the aspect ratio the shorter the chord and the thinner the airfoil. the span was 27.7 ft, with 9 cells and the chord of 10 ft. The depth of the airfoil was 22" (MTXX=56") Main and resrve canopies had identical performance. Lyle Cameron did the flight testing. When all was done we had performance of, best case 5.12 : 1 and worst case 4.77 : 1. The system weight 34 pounds and was stronger than the MT1XX . In still air sitting in the saddle at 25000 ft
the Mach III Alpha would glide 22.85 miles worst case. Best case, 24.24 miles. In full flight, balls out the ground speed was 59 mph and could be modulated to ZERO! Try as we may, we never sold any to the US Military, as of August 1988. But I sold them to Japan,Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand, India and Mexico. One of the guys that did some testing,was a great guy, Jerry Bourquin. What a sweetheat!
Blue skies,
26ftconical.


riggerrob  (D 14840)

May 29, 2007, 8:58 PM
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Re: [26ftconical] The History Of HALO Operations [In reply to] Can't Post

For an interesting read about HALO pioneers in the United States Marine Corps, try reading:

"Fortune Favors the Brave", by Bruce F. Meyers, Naval Institute Press, 2000.
Reprinted by St. Martin's Press, NY, NY, 2004
ISBN: 0-312-99680-2
EAN: 80312-99680-2
Library of Congress number: 99-056896


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Jun 6, 2007, 10:08 AM
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Re: [26ftconical] The History Of HALO Operations [In reply to] Can't Post

One of the guys that did some testing,was a great guy, Jerry Bourquin. What a sweetheat!
Blue skies,
26ftconical.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Yes!
When I grow up, I want to be just like Jerry.
He was the best S&TA Elsinore ever had.


WGore  (D 3379)

Jun 8, 2007, 6:58 AM
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Re: [mjosparky] The History Of HALO Operations [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Hi RR

Hell of a way for a soldier to go to work either: Halo at night or Combat S/L/Frown

Even worse must have been knowing they had to go to "work" more than once a dayCrazy.

IMO all those guy's add a whole new meaning to the term professional.

R.I.P.

Yea, but most of them were just doing it for the pay and health insurance benefits.Tongue
Sparky

Had a friend in the RLI and he said that a guy he knew made 4 combat jumps in a single day doing the ambush thing. Most airborne don't make 4 combat jumps in a career. He also said that they had a couple fatalities from the rising DZ and the last couple guys in the stick impacted before line stretch.
Like you said a hell of a way to make a living. But life is so much better under Robert Mugabe, NOT!!!!!


Krip  (Student)

Jun 8, 2007, 7:20 AM
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Re: [WGore] The History Of HALO Operations [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Had a friend in the RLI and he said that a guy he knew made 4 combat jumps in a single day doing the ambush thing. Most airborne don't make 4 combat jumps in a career. He also said that they had a couple fatalities from the rising DZ and the last couple guys in the stick impacted before line stretch.
Like you said a hell of a way to make a living. But life is so much better under Robert Mugabe, NOT!!!!!

What was the pilot thinking he could have bent his airplaneCrazy Or did he/she


WGore  (D 3379)

Jun 8, 2007, 9:09 AM
Post #21 of 30 (4518 views)
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In reply to:
In reply to:
Had a friend in the RLI and he said that a guy he knew made 4 combat jumps in a single day doing the ambush thing. Most airborne don't make 4 combat jumps in a career. He also said that they had a couple fatalities from the rising DZ and the last couple guys in the stick impacted before line stretch.
Like you said a hell of a way to make a living. But life is so much better under Robert Mugabe, NOT!!!!!

What was the pilot thinking he could have bent his airplaneCrazy Or did he/she

They were jumping C-47s and my guess is that they didn't have radar altimeters. When your that low 50ft can make a difference.


JoeC  (C 22556)

Aug 12, 2009, 5:59 PM
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Re: [slotperfect] The History Of HALO Operations [In reply to] Can't Post

I couldn't bring up the link unfortunately and the answer to my question may be in the write-up. So I'll go ahead and ask here in case any old-timers might know the answer. I post on a Marine forum and there is a retiree who claims to have gone thru HALO school at Ft. Bragg in 1980. He claims to have been trained in the vertical wind-tunnel. I read that it wasn't built until 1981 and not used to train soldiers until around 1983. So the guy is either embellishing his experience or there was a wind-tunnel in use by 1980 for HALO student jumpers at Ft. Bragg. Does anyone have any knowledge or memory on the subject?


Premier LouDiamond  (D 25931)
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Aug 12, 2009, 10:58 PM
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Re: [26ftconical] The History Of HALO Operations [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
the Mach III Alpha would glide 22.85 miles worst case. Best case, 24.24 miles. In full flight, balls out the ground speed was 59 mph and could be modulated to ZERO! Try as we may, we never sold any to the US Military, as of August 1988. But I sold them to Japan,Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand, India and Mexico.

Thought you might get a kick out of this, the Peruvians are still using Mach IIIs if you can believe it.


pms07  (D 7571)

Aug 13, 2009, 12:05 AM
Post #24 of 30 (3925 views)
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Re: [JoeC] The History Of HALO Operations [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I couldn't bring up the link unfortunately and the answer to my question may be in the write-up. So I'll go ahead and ask here in case any old-timers might know the answer. I post on a Marine forum and there is a retiree who claims to have gone thru HALO school at Ft. Bragg in 1980. He claims to have been trained in the vertical wind-tunnel. I read that it wasn't built until 1981 and not used to train soldiers until around 1983. So the guy is either embellishing his experience or there was a wind-tunnel in use by 1980 for HALO student jumpers at Ft. Bragg. Does anyone have any knowledge or memory on the subject?

Yes, the wind tunnel at Wright-Patterson AFB was used by some prior to 83...


JoeC  (C 22556)

Aug 13, 2009, 7:41 AM
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In reply to:
[Yes, the wind tunnel at Wright-Patterson AFB was used by some prior to 83...

But this guy says it was at Ft. Bragg and it had a nickname of something like "Bozo Big Top". I think he's blowing hot-air, but have learned to never say never.


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