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TI's, what advice can you give?

 


D22369  (D 22369)

Aug 10, 2004, 3:09 AM
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TI's, what advice can you give? Can't Post

I am going to pursue my tandem rating for eclipse and vector, I was supposed to do my solo and front side this weekend, but the dz was a bit too busy with paying customers.

what advice would you give a TI in training?

Roy


AggieDave  (D License)

Aug 10, 2004, 7:45 AM
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Treat each student like they were a VIP.

Expect each one of them to try to kill you.

If you're not very strong, start working out, the strength can only help you.


JohnMitchell  (D 6462)

Aug 10, 2004, 7:58 AM
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Make sure you hook them up before you jump out.

Double check everything. Make it part of your routine.

Do a handle check in freefall on every jump after you throw the drogue.

If you have the students help flare the canopy for landing, use a two stage flare. That will give you more control and prevent a lot of balloon-up landings.

Enjoy, it's a lot of fun.Cool


Deuce  (D 25597)

Aug 10, 2004, 7:58 AM
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Quote:
what advice would you give a TI in training?

The time between that front side (first and only time I will do that) and your first paying customer is an eyeblink.

You cannot ask enough questions. If you can start a bull session with the tandem instructors which you fuel with beer you've bought, you will be investing wisely. The very best instruction I got was when I did my unstable drogueless jump and Vic Krusi talked me through flying the pattern and the flare while in the student harness.

As with all learning, the key is to have a small mouth and big ears. (listen more than you talk)


TALONSKY  (D License)

Aug 10, 2004, 8:10 AM
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I am a newbie instructor with just over 100 tandems but the one thing I learned that made my life a lot easier was instead of immediately trying to fix the students poor body positions just out fly them. Your legs are your greatest tool so use them to out fly your students. I spent my first 6o or so tandems trying to ankle lock and fix poor body position which I could but would take the first 10-20 seconds to figure out the right combination, now I just get out, get the drogue out and outfly them (it really has eliminated a lot of stress and made tandems a whole lot more fun).
Kirk


jdfreefly  (D 24037)

Aug 10, 2004, 9:03 AM
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The door is a very dangerous place...take great care that you clear the door on ever exit.

Have a routine for hookup and use it every time. If you do something out of sequence, completely unhook them and start over.

In addition to doing a handles check after throwing the drogue, get in the habit of doing one a little before pull time. Shit moves in freefall.

Never let em see you sweat. If shit goes wrong, always talk to the student with a clear and calm voice.


tspillers  (D 21601)

Aug 10, 2004, 10:42 AM
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Ask your examiner everything you can. Then ask some more.

Once you start working with students, ask as many TI's as many questions as you can, then ask more. Just make sure they know it is a question rather than criticizing what they are doing.

There are many techniques. I try to teack a lot of them and point out some concerns to look for, but I haven't seen everything.

Todd


JJohnson  (D 22675)

Aug 10, 2004, 2:48 PM
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Never be in a hurry to throw the drogue. Speed can be your friend. Trying to out-fly a larger student is much easier when you have airspeed to work with.

If you are a smaller person, like me understand that most of your battles with students are won before you ever leave the plane. I have thus far, not had even a nervous student screw me up in the air. Prevention is way better than cure.

Expect the exit to go wrong and be prepared to recover from it. If it goes right...BONUS.

I love doing tandems and treat each one as the only one.


tandembrent  (D 24878)

Aug 10, 2004, 8:52 PM
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set a routine for every aspect of the jump .

check your handles in the order that you will need to use them every time! if you check them out of order, stop, and start over in the proper order. this builds a repetitive motion memory, and has helped me in a couple of hairy situations.

fly YOUR body, not theirs !

RELAX RELAX RELAX RELAX
the more relaxed and at ease you are, the better your students will respond. would you want to be hooked up to an uptight, nervous, or angry TM ?

and always think of your clients as STUDENTS ! they may just come back and start training if you treat them like they should come back!

and please never forget that even if you are putting on that tandem rig for the 15th time that day, your student is there for their 1st jump. could be that the next Olav Zipser is your next student........

never get bullied into jumping in winds that YOU are not comrtable with !!! the students will wait and if you tell them your reasons for the delay, they will understand. trust me on that!


peace,
brent

Quote:


livendive  (D 21415)

Aug 11, 2004, 11:23 AM
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In reply to:
what advice would you give a TI in training?

Buy the current TI's at your DZ lots of beer so they'll share their knowledge. Wink

There are some good points made in this thread. My life got a lot easier when I quit worrying so much about my student's body position and just worked at outflying them. As you know, I'll still occasionally pull their legs up with mine, but that's more for the video than anything else (and irritation relief). Make sure your students get a good briefing, focus on controlling the exit/freefall and not just getting to droguefall quickly, fly big enough that you don't have to sweat the small stuff in freefall/droguefall, get a *good* practice landing or two up high, be ready to lift/push their legs with your's if necessary on landing, approach every student's safety like you would if they were a family member.

Blues,
Dave


D22369  (D 22369)

Aug 11, 2004, 12:16 PM
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Buy the current TI's at your DZ lots of beer so they'll share their knowledge.
Quote:

LOL-Smile

I had already planned on plying you with vast quantities of beer ya bum. thanks again for the help with the tandem exits...... the rugburns have almost healedCool see you friday if your out there, I have to bail early to get Conner for the weekend.

MANY thanks to everyone for their advice.

Roy


livendive  (D 21415)

Aug 11, 2004, 1:32 PM
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In reply to:
I had already planned on plying you with vast quantities of beer ya bum.

I don't know what makes me feel more whorish, the fact that I thought "Right on!" when I read that, or the fact that I do tandems in the first place. Wink

In reply to:
thanks again for the help with the tandem exits...... the rugburns have almost healedCool

You seemed to watch the hookup process a little more intently on Sunday. Laugh

In reply to:
see you friday if your out there, I have to bail early to get Conner for the weekend.

I'm sure I'll be there. You now have competition vying for the different crashpads in town, and the bed in the little trailer is on a first-come, first-serve basis. Unimpressed

Blues,
Dave


des  (F 372)

Aug 12, 2004, 12:44 AM
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Re: [D22369] TI's, what advice can you give? [In reply to] Can't Post

sort thru all the advice,and do what works for you at that time and situation.i have 7000 tandems,and still change technique quite often,as i am still learning,dont be afraid to try something new ,and dont be afraid to discard advice from someone you respect that doesnt work for you.
always follow a routine and always do all your checks before and during droguefall.remember complacency kills.
enjoy your tandems,they should be fun for both of you


flypunk  (D License)

Aug 12, 2004, 8:27 AM
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know your limits and respect them, not only to regards with winds but with weight, workload and even your students attitude or condition

If you are not comfortable, don't be afraid to step aside and say no. Getting your passenger hurt or yourself is not worth it.

You will sleep easier knowing that somebody was pissed off at me cuz you didn't take him/her, rather than knowing you should've known better and you could've prevented it once something goes wrong.


tphilpin  (D 24815)

Aug 17, 2004, 8:56 PM
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Re: [D22369] TI's, what advice can you give? [In reply to] Can't Post

Make sure your examiner tells you how to avoid and get out of a flat spin situation before it becomes unrecoverable. Make sure you understand what he told you. Then have the instructor have you recover from a spin induced by a student or loose connections in the air before jumping with paying customers.

Flat spins are one of the few things that can kill you and your passenger, even if you do everything right within your control. If you don't respond promptly, or correctly, it is not recoverable. View the video records of actual flat spins, scary stuff.


(This post was edited by tphilpin on Aug 17, 2004, 8:59 PM)


AggieDave  (D License)

Aug 18, 2004, 5:17 AM
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Re: [tphilpin] TI's, what advice can you give? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Then have the instructor have you recover from a spin induced by a student or loose connections in the air before jumping with paying customers.

Are you actually suggesting that you intentionally go up and produce a side spin with a tandem system so you know how to recover? Are you also suggesting that you intentionally jump with the laterals loose, against the manufacture's recommendations, to help produce a side spin?

No thankyou!

I've had a sidespin, it sucked but I recovered from it, you have to react using your head, not something you can train.

You're also forgetting as a rule of thumb you can also dump your reserve if you can't get out of a side spin, that was demonstrated very very clearly on the side spin video produced by Strong.


tphilpin  (D 24815)

Aug 18, 2004, 5:34 AM
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Re: [AggieDave] TI's, what advice can you give? [In reply to] Can't Post

Sorry Dave, better brush up on your sidespin knowledge.

I was suggesting that your examiner initiate a side spin while you, the student tandem master, perform the proper procedures to arrest it. No I am not suggesting you jump with the the laterals loose. I don't suggest you practice with a student. An examiner can arrest the side spin if you are unable before it gets too bad.

Dave, It's my understanding that you would be mistaken if you think you can just dump your reserve out of a developed flat spin. You have been operating with a false sense of security. In a developed flat spin you are likely to be unable to pull you arms in to pull anything and are likely to black out after three or four turns. Yeah your cypress will probably fire, but I would count on having a canopy sound enough to land two under.

In the interest of operating with complete knowledge, may I suggest you contact Strong himself or review the video where he experiments with the how and why of side spins.
with all due respect,
Tony


AggieDave  (D License)

Aug 18, 2004, 5:50 AM
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Re: [tphilpin] TI's, what advice can you give? [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes I know the proceedure, you track out.

Have you been in a side spin? If you let it get to the point where you can't pull your arms in, etc, its gone too far. Do you not remember the point in the video with the video clip of the tandem pair in a side spin and the TI dumps the reserve? It does work.

Oh, you keep using flat spin and side spin, I'm assuming when you say flat spin you do mean a side spin. If someone can fly stable, get the drogue out then not control a student well enough that they flat spin, as in they can't maintain heading control...well, they really shouldn't be a TI. We've all had jumps where we're in some sort of fucked up body position to keep the pair from spinning, since the student won't respond to the TI trying to move their arms or legs (and isn't doing what we trained them to do).

Ok, back on track...

I honestly think that going up and intentionally initiating a side spin is asinine. You're intentionally putting a tandem pair in the most dangerous situation known to tandems.

All we did at my course was review part of the tape and what to do (RWS course none the less). Something like 6 months later I had a side spin, I got out of it, no I didn't dump the reserve and its not something I ever want to do again (although I really expect every student to do it to me again). Well, I better go brush up on my "side spin knowledge."Unsure


tspillers  (D 21601)

Aug 18, 2004, 1:55 PM
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Re: [tphilpin] TI's, what advice can you give? [In reply to] Can't Post

This is a bad idea. A side spin can very quickly get to the point of causing you to pass out. It is not a situation that you should try to create.

Todd
Tandem Course Director


skydiverton  (D 123456789)

Aug 23, 2004, 11:39 PM
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Re: [tspillers] TI's, what advice can you give? [In reply to] Can't Post

-Prepare your student in the door (Hands, head and legs)

- Fly your own exit even when the student stretches a leg or de-arches.

- Make a handle check every jump!

- Flare without assistance (Bad landings hurt). Passenger shall keep legs up.

- Get advice from experienced TM at your DZ.

- Look at the passenger videos. For the passenger they are a kind of entertainment. For you they are a source of feedback.

I can go on, but the most important thing:
Find yourself a fixed routine and...

HAVE FUN



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