Re: [VectorBoy] Yet another Katana thread
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heavier than on a vx (the fronts are way lighter)-same with the 27cell xaos.
the rears are fairly similar to a velocity, very powerful and responsive. I think the input pressure on the xoas line of canopies is ideal for competition swooping-especially rears. The vx is so light that stalling the canopy is much easer- the xaos will shout "hey go to toggles stupid!" before it stalls.
Re: [diveout] Yet another Katana thread
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I personally like heavier rear riser pressure. It makes it tougher to distort and/or stall the canopy. You can feel the canopy "warning" you of a stall a bit more, if that makes any sense. I think the Katana had just the right amount. You can tug pretty hard to have it just trim out, and then hold it for a long time without descending, making the early-transition-before-rear-riser-power-loss thing a little easier.
Also on that note, I found that I didn't really have to transition from rears to half brakes (even with the brakes lines let out just right) like I did on my Sabre2. I don't know how this compares to the various X-braces. It was more like just letting go of the risers and putting hands out about a foot or so, and then go into the flare. The control range on toggles starts pretty high.
Re: [davelepka] Yet another Katana thread
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The control range on toggles starts pretty high. -------------------------------------------------------
My impression was the opposite. Although, I only have four or five jumps on a 107. Anyone else? Comments?
I guess it's all perspective. Again, I can't compare to X-braces. Compared the XF2, XF, Sabre2, and... a Fox 245 ... it starts higher up. You very likely have a wider array of canopies flown.
Re: [ManBird] Yet another Katana thread
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So, I went back to the PD web site to the list of quotes to see if I better understand their marketing now, and why it didn't have me convinced before:
The thing is that they don't give much of a pitch. Every quote on there is very true, and is how I would describe this canopy, but across the board, it's compared to a Stilleto and a Velocity. It comes across as, "If you currently fly a Stilleto and you want to fly a Velocity, use this as a stepping stone." This canopy deserves a LOT more credit than that. And for those who don't fly Stilettos, the comparisons don't mean much.
IMO, the comparisons are detrimental. Not everyone who'd like this canopy has experience on a Stiletto. Some of the really great truths found in the quotes are overshadowed by the comparison. We hear about the how easy the dive is to control and maintain, but we forget that, because we're trying to imagine what a Stilleto dives like. Also, there's a lot of difference in the dive of a Stilleto and a Velo. If anything, the dive is probably closer to a Velo -- a Stilleto pilot would be very surprised to find out what their usual front riser turn does on a Katana.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that the marketing for the Katana has been very understated. We see pictures of clouds, a logo, and a few snippets of text that don't really convey anything. There was a lot of hype, but I never learned anything about the canopy until I spoke with Vladi about it for awhile, and then flew one.
Keeping with the Japanese theme, I've written a haiku that, I believe would be a better bit of marketing than what they've had in the past:
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dives like a mofo, fast and responsive in flight, the katana rocks.
On a side note, I knew this canopy had a wide aspect ratio, but didn't realize that it's the widest that PD makes -- 2.74:1.
Re: [ManBird] Yet another Katana thread
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I've written a haiku that, I believe would be a better bit of marketing than what they've had in the past:
I wrote a song, posted it in the bonfire a while ago, but here it is, it's a re-write of Hakunamatata from the Lion King;
Hookin the katana what a wonderful phrase Hookin the katana aint no passing craze it means long swoops for the rest of your days it's a crossbrace free Velocity Hookin the katana.....
Re: [AggieDave] Yet another Katana thread
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I'm not sure about the Katana, but my XF2 can be really floaty and make it back from long spots with the rears quite nicely.
I make it back from spots on my Crossfire2, 97 loaded at 2.0 that others can't come close to. It helps that I pull higher as well. But the glide is amazing on the xf2. I've got over 300 jumps on mine now. I LOOOVE it...
Re: [ManBird] Yet another Katana thread
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Nice review, I jumped the 120 a couple of times at Lost Prarie this last weekend and the openings were outstanding. A very nice canopy indeed! Even with no wind, 3500' and warm it landed nice. Started with a 90 then up to 270 and it did as advertised, swooped nicely for both approaches..
Re: [Kolla] Yet another Katana thread
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Glad you are enjoying your canopy,
Really enjoying it, have had a bit of wierdness with it latley. It occasionally snatches the front riser back from me, when it did it this weekend somebody on the ground said they heard it make a loud cracking noise.
I hurt my shoulder a while ago and went back to a larger sabre till my shoulder got better. I'm thinking that becouse the riser pressure on the sabre is so much greater than the katana that I may now be inadvertantley pulling to far down on the front riser and the canopy is biting back!
Any thoughts on this would be greatley appreciated.
(This post was edited by hkf on Aug 2, 2004, 11:28 AM)
hkf, I've had that same phenomenom occur several times, but it's been when I'm doing a slow carving turn in funky turbulence. Same deal -- riser damn near pops out of my hand and a "crack" can be heard (and the canopy planes out pretty quickly thereafter). But... this sounds like a different cause.
Re: [ManBird] Yet another Katana thread
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Think it's the same. Saturday was the first time it did it in the turn (which was a slow carvy one), normally when it does it, it's becouse I've turned high and gone on to double fronts. Thought I may have been using to much double fronts becouse of the relativley light riser pressure.
Oh, I should have also mentioned that this phenomenon has occured for me on different canopies, but same turn/conditions. I think it's less the canopy's fault, and more turn/conditions'. That's just my theory, though.
Re: [ManBird] Yet another Katana thread
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Yep, I'm sure it's not a fault of the canopy, more turn type and conditions. Gonna do a few high hop n pops and have a good play with it and try to figure out how and why it happens!
yeah, i've experienced that. And i was talking to someone else in perris who's also experienced that on a Katana... For me, it hasn't felt like instability or wanting to collapse. It feels like a wave of energy through the canopy while it's in a dive fight to get it back to normal flight... it's happened to me a handful of times, with a little double front input to dive a high turn a little more. When it has happened, I've let up on everything to return to normal flight and just land uneventfully. My openings have also gotten whippy. I think my steering lines have shrunk which could be part of the problem, but I'm also going to show PD in Rantoul to see what they think. I'm jealous of others who say their Katana opens beautifully though, wondering if I got mine too early. peace lew
Re: [lewmonst] Yet another Katana thread
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I think my steering lines have shrunk which could be part of the problem
Why they don't build a high performance canopy with Vectran lines is a mystery to me. They, in this case, means pretty much everyone. I just don't understand the need (or want) to build a real high performance canopy with Spectra anymore.
- Jim
(This post was edited by Jimbo on Aug 2, 2004, 10:54 PM)
Re: [Jimbo] Yet another Katana thread
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I just don't understand the need (or want) to build a real high performance canopy with Spectra anymore.
i don't either, but they line set will last longer, so i would imagine that is why.
steve blinko (sp??), the dude who freefly coaches in lake wales has spectra on his vx, or he did this past winter anyway. it didn't make much sense to me, but he seamed to really like it.
Re: [lewmonst] Yet another Katana thread
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Hey Lew!
Looking forward to seeing you in Rantoul, but I would suggest that you call our Maintenance Dept here at PD before you go to get their input.
We won't be set up to do rigging or detailed inspections at Rantoul so we couldn't help you out much under the tent! Call Donna or Robin (386 738 2224) or e-mail (donna@performancedesigns.com, robin@performancedesigns.com) to get the specs and their input on it, they are two excellent ladies!
I checked with John LeBlanc to get his input. He said that it would be a bit hard to make any solid comments as he doesn't know the exact circumstances, but here are some of his thoughts.
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"My thoughts are that when going through turbulence at high speed, and you get a downer, the lines go slack and then the canopy races back to the end of the line, just like it should do. It can make a loud pop when it does this. The turbulence could stem from other canopies around or any other source.
When you are on a canopy that has light riser pressure, it is easy to over control. When you fly through crappy air, the riser pressure can vary quite a bit. If you fly a "riser pressure" rather than a "riser position", that variance can lead to unwanted riser movements which can make things worse. Flying a "position" rather than a pressure, will help prevent the pilot from inadvertently pulling more riser down when the pressure is momentarily lower.
I'm not concerned about it, but I do think jumpers should be realistic about the type of air they fly in with such aggressive maneuvers.
They also need to make sure that their riser loops are way high on the risers, and be mindful of proper toggle position". ____________________________
Re: [Kolla] Yet another Katana thread
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If you fly a "riser pressure" rather than a "riser position", that variance can lead to unwanted riser movements which can make things worse. Flying a "position" rather than a pressure, will help prevent the pilot from inadvertently pulling more riser down when the pressure is momentarily lower.
This is dead on. When I've had this happen, I've basically just committed my arm to one spot -- there'd still be funky turbulence, but it wasn't throwing my arm around. I couldn't find a good way to describe it. I think John LeBlanc totally nailed the problem and offered the solution with this comment. Imagine that.
I found some POV video of this last night. I'll post it as soon as I rip it. Basically, my hand stays in one spot, and the front riser is going taught-slack-taught-slack-taught... but the swoop stays smooth and continuous the whole way through.
BTW, this thread should be like three different threads at this point. I'll post the video in a new thread, or maybe this one should be broken off starting at this post.
(This post was edited by ManBird on Aug 3, 2004, 4:12 PM)
Re: [skygod7777] Yet another Katana thread
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i don't either, but they line set will last longer, so i would imagine that is why.
Last longer? When does a spectra line set go bad? When it starts to effect open and flight (many people ive talked to recently said about 200 jumps), or when you just cant stand it anymore?
Re: [johnny1488] Yet another Katana thread
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When lines start breaking. <-- THIS WINK MEANS I'M KIDDING!
I'm interested in seeing how this 650 microline fares. I assume it will start to "distort" just like any other Spectra, but for the moment, I just think the thinness is cool. I wonder if I can have it relined with HMA when this Spectra starts to wear. hhhhHHHHHHMMMMMMMMMmmmmmmmm........aaaaaaAAAAAAaaa
Re: [ManBird] Yet another Katana thread
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Manbird and hkf,
The problem you have described is not just related to the Katana! I have a Crossfire2 119 @ 1.9 that will do the same thing. My biggest tip to you would be for sure to check the tail deflection when your pulling front riser. I had my Crossfire2 set at factory settings when I first got it and it was about 2inches too short. I lengthened them up and viola the buffeting and nose "roll under" went away. I still can make it do it but I choose not to. Like it was said in previous posts...It is the position of the riser not pressure that you need to look at. Hope this helps.
... it starts higher up. You very likely have a wider array of canopies flown. 
They, in this case, means pretty much everyone. I just don't understand the need (or want) to build a real high performance canopy with Spectra anymore. 
