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1st injured student: Any other ideas on getting legs up and out?

 

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JJohnson  (D 22675)

Jul 26, 2004, 10:15 AM
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1st injured student: Any other ideas on getting legs up and out? Can't Post

Sadly this weekend I had my first student get injured. She was unable to totally get her legs up and on landing broke her ankle. I feel really badly about the situation and could go the rest of my life without ever hearing those sounds again.

I have had more than a few students not be able to get their feet up. One guy couldn't even get his legs to budge and I surfed him in. Some of them I have been able to kick their legs and get them up. Some have managed to grab their pants legs or grippers and pull the upper legs, but still not straighten their feet out in front of them.

Some of them can grab the harness over their heads and swing their legs out at landing.

Very few students are willing to try and work the leg straps down a few inches so they are in a more seated position. Heck some freak out when you loosen the side straps.

Any other great ideas?


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
Moderator
Jul 26, 2004, 10:21 AM
Post #2 of 41 (3184 views)
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Re: [JJohnson] 1st injured student: Any other ideas on getting legs up and out? [In reply to] Can't Post

Are you telling them that you are loosening the leg straps? I used the line "I'm going to do a few things to make us more comfortable" Not one freaked on me that way.

How are you asking them to adjust the leg straps? Stand on your toes or pull the leg up and move the strap?


Premier SkymonkeyONE  (D 12501)

Jul 26, 2004, 10:24 AM
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Re: [JJohnson] 1st injured student: Any other ideas on getting legs up and out? [In reply to] Can't Post

Another good reason why we always put our passengers in RW jumpsuits at Raeford. Having them grab the leg grippers near the knees and pulling up prior to landing generally always works for those "round" people.


TALONSKY  (D License)

Jul 26, 2004, 10:25 AM
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Re: [JJohnson] 1st injured student: Any other ideas on getting legs up and out? [In reply to] Can't Post

 There are a couple of things I have heard of, one is to have them put there hands under their legs to help pull them up. Along with that if you have the student move the leg straps out(down their thighs) it also makes it easier for them to get their legs up.
I personally will have them practice getting their legs out up high and if they have a problem upon coming in for a landing I will take my feet and cup their feet and pull them up(just using my legs) and we both slide in on our butts.
Kirk


JJohnson  (D 22675)

Jul 26, 2004, 11:22 AM
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Re: [SkymonkeyONE] 1st injured student: Any other ideas on getting legs up and out? [In reply to] Can't Post

This girl had a jumpsuit on and was holding her legs up. But I watched her relax the grip and lower them as we came in. It was her second tandem as well. She was laying on the ground in pain ansd says: "My parents are going to be so pissed, espicially when I tell them I'm coming back out to finish my student work."
Tough girl


JJohnson  (D 22675)

Jul 26, 2004, 11:31 AM
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Re: [TALONSKY] 1st injured student: Any other ideas on getting legs up and out? [In reply to] Can't Post

I always have them try it up high, so I know what I'm in for. Hard for me to use my feet to grab theirs cause I'm like 5 foot 4 inches with stubs for legs. I'd be starting line up at the midgets basketball team.


TALONSKY  (D License)

Jul 26, 2004, 11:57 AM
Post #7 of 41 (3135 views)
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Re: [JJohnson] 1st injured student: Any other ideas on getting legs up and out? [In reply to] Can't Post

I guess there are a few advantages to being 6'3". Sounds like you did everything you could to get her legs up.


AggieDave  (D License)

Jul 26, 2004, 2:14 PM
Post #8 of 41 (3093 views)
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Re: [JJohnson] 1st injured student: Any other ideas on getting legs up and out? [In reply to] Can't Post

This is what I do and have found to be successful after 350 tandem jumps.


After opening, I tell my students to look up "guess what? Our parachute worked!" I then start talking to them about stuff around the DZ while I'm rear risering the canopy to the direction I want and gently popping the laterals. While I'm finishing my little "talk" I'm rehooking the laterals up to their harness in the front (Sigma harness).

After that I simply say "left knee up" and move it, then "right knee up" and move it, once I'm done with all of that I comment "more comfy huh?" 90% of the time the student doesn't even realize what I've done until after I've done it. Thus their legs are up, they're in a seated position.

If they feel the slight bump from the laterals and they freak out, I have them look at each one of the main (upper) hooks and tell them that ALL of their weight is on those hooks and they can't go anywhere until after we land. That usually works. If they're still uneasy about the adjusting, I simply tell them "it will be a much safer landing for you if I can adjust things" I haven't had a student wig out past that statement.

With those adjustments I haven't had any problems with students having their legs up enough for landing. I have had to "kick" a couple to help motivate them, but nothing major.


FlyinseivLP2  (D 18628)

Jul 26, 2004, 2:24 PM
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Re: [JJohnson] 1st injured student: Any other ideas on getting legs up and out? [In reply to] Can't Post

Up high have them reach under one of their knees with both hands and try to pull it up to thier chest. Once they get it up you reach over their shoulder and grab their jumpsuit. While you are holding their leg up have them put one hand on each side of the legstrap and slide it forward. Repeat on other leg. Go over this during your ground briefing. It take some practice but it really helps them pick thier legs up for landing and also makes the ride more comfortable for them. Jeff


nightjumps  (D 23385)

Jul 26, 2004, 8:49 PM
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Re: [SkymonkeyONE] 1st injured student: Any other ideas on getting legs up and out? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Having them grab the leg grippers near the knees and pulling up prior to landing generally always works...

I've made that part of my ground and air landing training SOP's.


linestretch  (D 21060)

Jul 27, 2004, 12:08 AM
Post #11 of 41 (3004 views)
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Re: [JJohnson] 1st injured student: Any other ideas on getting legs up and out? [In reply to] Can't Post

I tell them if they don't get their legs up, the landing is gonna be on video, and we are gonna sit around drinking beer watching their landing...over and over and over.


masher  (D 3806)

Jul 27, 2004, 1:16 AM
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Re: [JJohnson] 1st injured student: Any other ideas on getting legs up and out? [In reply to] Can't Post

Do you ask your students to demonstrate a leg lift before you get in the acft?


skydiverton  (D 123456789)

Jul 27, 2004, 1:19 AM
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Re: [linestretch] 1st injured student: Any other ideas on getting legs up and out? [In reply to] Can't Post

I always tell them something like:

If you can't pull up your legs we will land the total weight on your feet and fall forward on your face......It's your face, I don't care.

Till now this has been a good motivation

I only experience this problem with hamburger shaped passengers.


(This post was edited by skydiverton on Jul 27, 2004, 3:59 AM)


mfrese  (D 20145)

Jul 27, 2004, 10:42 AM
Post #14 of 41 (2943 views)
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Re: [JJohnson] 1st injured student: Any other ideas on getting legs up and out? [In reply to] Can't Post

If you have a "hanging harness" setup at your DZ (and you really should have one for harness training for the FJC and emergency procedure training), try to take a few minutes and get them to hang in it prior to the jump. This can give you a really good idea of how high they'll be able to get their legs, and should give you a chance to make changes to the harness adjustments and/or give them some additional training on how to adjust the legstraps prior to the actual skydive. This has helped me a lot with older/larger people.

For people with, ahem, larger thighs, you can also make sure the legstraps are tightened farther down on the leg rather than at the crotch. This will generally hose their ability to arch a little bit, but pulls their legs up automatically under canopy (particularly with a properly adjusted Sigma harness Smile).


crutch  (D 10182)

Jul 27, 2004, 11:51 PM
Post #15 of 41 (2900 views)
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Re: [JJohnson] 1st injured student: Any other ideas on getting legs up and out? [In reply to] Can't Post

"Legs up, eyes on the horizon, if your feet hit the ground before mine, you are going to break something!"


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Jul 28, 2004, 5:09 AM
Post #16 of 41 (2887 views)
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Re: [crutch] 1st injured student: Any other ideas on getting legs up and out? [In reply to] Can't Post

Asking students to adjust their leg straps - while under canopy - is so old-school.

I hear that Sigma harnesses solve most of these problems - even though I have not jumped them.
The last few years I have mainly used Strong student harnesses with rings at the hips. When we adjust them with the rings at the FRONT of the hip joint, it automatically puts students in a sitting position under canopy.
We also found that adjustment method works well with older - non ringed - Strong student harnesses.


matthewcline  (D 21585)

Jul 28, 2004, 5:02 PM
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Re: [AggieDave] 1st injured student: Any other ideas on getting legs up and out? [In reply to] Can't Post

Aggiedave,

I do a real simular thing with my sigma or vector 2 students but hook the laterals to themselve behind the student. I just tell them I am loosening up the sides like we discussed in the briefing. Then if all is well and they are real comfy i just hook them up together, cause your right there is no actual weight on them after openning.

Matt
SE-0299


adrenaline_101

Aug 5, 2004, 8:03 PM
Post #18 of 41 (2738 views)
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Re: [matthewcline] 1st injured student: Any other ideas on getting legs up and out? [In reply to] Can't Post

RWS RECOMMENDS THAT YOU AFTER LOOSENING THE LATERALS, TO REATTACH THEM TO THE LOWER CONNECTION POINTS ON THE SIGMA AND NOT TO THE STUDENTS HARNESS OR OTHER PLACES!


adrenaline_101

Aug 5, 2004, 8:07 PM
Post #19 of 41 (2737 views)
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Re: [adrenaline_101] 1st injured student: Any other ideas on getting legs up and out? [In reply to] Can't Post

ALSO, ANOTHER WAY OF GETTING THEIR LEGS UP IS PLACING YOUR FEET BEHIND THERE CALVES AND PRODDING THEM DURING YOUR PRACTICE LANDINGS UNDER CANOPY AND ALSO ON LANDING IF NECESSARY!


JohnMitchell  (D 6462)

Aug 8, 2004, 10:01 AM
Post #20 of 41 (2689 views)
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Re: [JJohnson] 1st injured student: Any other ideas on getting legs up and out? [In reply to] Can't Post

Occasionally I'll have a student try to get a leg under them. You can some times kick their legs out in front with your feet. You can also get the legs to the side so you spin 180 and end up sliding backwards. Sorry about your injured student. It can happen to the best. Unsure


JJohnson  (D 22675)

Aug 10, 2004, 2:55 PM
Post #21 of 41 (2637 views)
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Re: [JohnMitchell] 1st injured student: Any other ideas on getting legs up and out? [In reply to] Can't Post

Thank you all for your input. I should add that this was an off landing in a bean field. The student was a bit "round" and did have her legs up.

She relaxed her grip on her legs as we hit the top of the 2 foot tall beans. That was all it took.

Since this incident, I am way more demanding on my students getting their legs up. I use pretty much alll the tricks in the book and these do work in 99% of the situations.

Again my thanks.


mojo280  (D 20606)

Aug 10, 2004, 6:21 PM
Post #22 of 41 (2630 views)
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Re: [JJohnson] 1st injured student: Any other ideas on getting legs up and out? [In reply to] Can't Post

Dude, on fat, round people, don't tighten up the shoulder straps until you're in the plane...tighten up the leg straps on the ground so they go around their lower thighs and leave the mlw long...then tighten the shoulder straps in the plane. In freefall, their legs will be dropped, but once the canopy opens, they'ii already be in a seated position...that way, on landing, all they have to do is lift up their little sausage calves and sliiiide.


rlmelfi  (D 16175)

Aug 11, 2004, 2:17 PM
Post #23 of 41 (2594 views)
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Re: [JJohnson] 1st injured student: Any other ideas on getting legs up and out? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey Darth Balls. I have over 3000 tandems. One thing to remember is that students rarely do exactly what you tell them. You have to take control. If there is no wind, and I'm moving across the ground pretty fast, I always pick their feet up with my legs. Depending on their height or how far they are hanging down below you in the harness, I will either lift their legs by putting my feet under the knee or my knees under their knees.


adrenaline_101

Aug 13, 2004, 12:37 PM
Post #24 of 41 (2552 views)
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Re: [mojo280] 1st injured student: Any other ideas on getting legs up and out? [In reply to] Can't Post

...and then what happens if you have to leave the plane early with their straps loose hotshot?


adrenaline_101

Aug 13, 2004, 12:38 PM
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Re: [rlmelfi] 1st injured student: Any other ideas on getting legs up and out? [In reply to] Can't Post

Didn't I say that???


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