Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Swooping and Canopy Control:
hiper canopys

 

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acrojunky  (C License)

Jul 14, 2004, 9:01 PM
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hiper canopys Can't Post

http://www.hipercanopies.de/ man this is the first time ive seen this can i get any info on the nitro/blade canopy and how do these things compare to the vx 46/39?


Premier skybytch  (D License)

Jul 14, 2004, 9:27 PM
Post #2 of 26 (2162 views)
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Re: [acrojunky] hiper canopys [In reply to] Can't Post

HiPer USA is the US distributor for the Nitro and Blade.


ManBird  (D 28001)

Jul 14, 2004, 9:37 PM
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Re: [acrojunky] hiper canopys [In reply to] Can't Post

I still don't get the thinking behind the burritos on top of the canopy. And "virtually impossible to collapse" seems like quite a claim. Can't collapse it? How do I pack it? Wink


diablopilot  (D License)

Jul 14, 2004, 10:39 PM
Post #4 of 26 (2139 views)
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Re: [ManBird] hiper canopys [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I still don't get the thinking behind the burritos on top of the canopy.


this is the idea behind them...... Winglets in other applications


and with some pictures


koz2000  (D License)

Jul 15, 2004, 4:51 AM
Post #5 of 26 (2081 views)
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Re: [acrojunky] hiper canopys [In reply to] Can't Post

I've jumped the Blade and it's a really nice canopy. Very sweet openings, light front riser pressure, dives really steep, can be landed on either rear's -> toggles or just toggles alone. I felt it was a lot like the Xfire, great option for camera guys who still like to have a little fun on landings.

I doubt they'll make it in a 39.


Premier SkymonkeyONE  (D 12501)

Jul 15, 2004, 7:49 AM
Post #6 of 26 (2017 views)
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Re: [koz2000] hiper canopys [In reply to] Can't Post

The Blade I jumped at Moss Point (in my wingsuit no less) was an 89 and it flew like a Crossfire 2. Very quick turns, long dives, strong bottom end.


Treejumps

Jul 15, 2004, 10:52 AM
Post #7 of 26 (1952 views)
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Re: [acrojunky] hiper canopys [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm curious why you are interested in how a Blade compares to a VX 39 or 46? I doubt that a Blade of that size whould be landable at all as it is a different class of canopy. The Nitro has been manufactured for several years, and has been available in US markets for several as well. Based on your other posts, I can tell you that you should not be flying one, and really should not even be thinking about sub 100 parachutes.

Quote: "man this is the first time ive seen this can i get any info on the nitro/blade canopy"

Its sort of one of those things where if you don't know what it is, you couldn't possibly be ready for it.

Tree Tongue


Cacophony  (D 23912)

Jul 15, 2004, 11:01 AM
Post #8 of 26 (1946 views)
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Re: [acrojunky] hiper canopys [In reply to] Can't Post

The Blade is not a X-braced canopy so it won't be quite as high performance as a VX. However, we had demo's from HiperUSA at our DZ a few weeks ago, and while I didn't demo either canopy (blade, nitro) it was pretty obvious that the blade is very capable of getting some serious distance without the hassle of a X-braced design.


raymod2  (D 25630)

Jul 15, 2004, 11:46 AM
Post #9 of 26 (1930 views)
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Re: [diablopilot] hiper canopys [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
I still don't get the thinking behind the burritos on top of the canopy.

this is the idea behind them...... Winglets in other applications

After reading that article and looking at the pictures of the winglets on the Nitro and Blade I suspect they are a gimmick. How can they recover energy lost by wingtip vortices when they aren't even located at the wingtips?


diablopilot  (D License)

Jul 15, 2004, 11:54 AM
Post #10 of 26 (1927 views)
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Re: [raymod2] hiper canopys [In reply to] Can't Post

Never said they worked or didn't but who says they have to be right on the end to stop roll vorticies?

I do know that both the Blade and Nitro have great low speed lift charachterisitics.


GeeeeeeFly  (D 26424)

Jul 15, 2004, 12:25 PM
Post #11 of 26 (1916 views)
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Re: [diablopilot] hiper canopys [In reply to] Can't Post

Think,

If Hyper is trying to eliminate the vorticies that are coming off the wing, then why wouldn't they simply immitate the same design as the jets have?

~G~


(This post was edited by GeeeeeeFly on Jul 15, 2004, 12:25 PM)


diablopilot  (D License)

Jul 15, 2004, 12:28 PM
Post #12 of 26 (1910 views)
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Re: [GeeeeeeFly] hiper canopys [In reply to] Can't Post

Perhapse because a soft inflatible fabric wing is a totaly different beast to work with than a titanium/composit/aluminim wing.


ManBird  (D 28001)

Jul 15, 2004, 4:17 PM
Post #13 of 26 (1862 views)
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Re: [raymod2] hiper canopys [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
After reading that article and looking at the pictures of the winglets on the Nitro and Blade I suspect they are a gimmick.
I thought the same thing. Just looks like more drag and interruption of airflow. Slightly higher pack volume, as well (for a non-crossbraced). Weird, says I.

In reply to:
How can they recover energy lost by wingtip vortices when they aren't even located at the wingtips?
If these even do anything, then I suspect that they're located where they are because the center of the canopy is "flatter", and the supposed energy loss happens closer to the center of the canopy.

Not directed at you, JP. I realize that their ideas are not necessarily yours, and you were just calling up a resource to explain the concept of wingtips.


piisfish

Jul 15, 2004, 4:38 PM
Post #14 of 26 (1854 views)
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Re: [diablopilot] hiper canopys [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Perhapse because a soft inflatible fabric wing is a totaly different beast to work with than a titanium/composit/aluminim wing.
and perhaps that the flight domain is totally different too...
have a dozen of flights on Nitrons and teh stall speed is very very slow indeed...
Also have some flight hours under advance paragliders... and these canopies rock


raymod2  (D 25630)

Jul 15, 2004, 9:25 PM
Post #15 of 26 (1815 views)
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Re: [diablopilot] hiper canopys [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Perhapse because a soft inflatible fabric wing is a totaly different beast to work with than a titanium/composit/aluminim wing.

The article explained that air in the high pressure area at the bottom of an airfoil seeks the low pressure area at the top of the airfoil and spills around the end of the wing (thus reducing lift). Winglets are designed to block that path. If they aren't located at the wingtips I don't see how they can work.


diablopilot  (D License)

Jul 15, 2004, 9:28 PM
Post #16 of 26 (1813 views)
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Re: [raymod2] hiper canopys [In reply to] Can't Post

Ok.

Fly the canopy. It has huge amounts of low speed lift.

I can't say if it's because of the winglets, the airfoil shape, or because they rub blu cheese into the fabric before they sew it.

Still is a nice canopy.

Maybe we can get Beezy to chime in here......


acrojunky  (C License)

Jul 16, 2004, 2:15 AM
Post #17 of 26 (1788 views)
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Re: [Treejumps] hiper canopys [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I'm curious why you are interested in how a Blade compares to a VX 39 or 46? I doubt that a Blade of that size whould be landable at all as it is a different class of canopy. The Nitro has been manufactured for several years, and has been available in US markets for several as well. Based on your other posts, I can tell you that you should not be flying one, and really should not even be thinking about sub 100 parachutes. Its sort of one of those things where if you don't know what it is, you couldn't possibly be ready for it.

all right inestine if I was ready for it wy would I come to this forum???????? well not to sound BLUNT or anything.


Treejumps

Jul 16, 2004, 4:37 AM
Post #18 of 26 (1776 views)
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Re: [acrojunky] hiper canopys [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote: "all right inestine if I was ready for it wy would I come to this forum???????? well not to sound BLUNT or anything."

For all of you kiddies out there thinking about dropping out of school..... A high school level of grammar and writing skills will take you far.

snicker snicker Wink


GeeeeeeFly  (D 26424)

Jul 16, 2004, 8:52 AM
Post #19 of 26 (1732 views)
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Re: [diablopilot] hiper canopys [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Fly the canopy. It has huge amounts of low speed lift.


Straight from the horses mouth...

Or is it... from his mouth?


HUGE amounts...

I compared the Nitro (with burritos) similar to a stiletto with longer flare capabilities and a longer recovery arc. But I did not feel that it was as nice as a Crossfire2 when comparing the two.
It was a nice price that JP gave me on the demo, I will give him that...

~G~


(This post was edited by GeeeeeeFly on Jul 16, 2004, 11:38 AM)


acrojunky  (C License)

Jul 16, 2004, 9:35 AM
Post #20 of 26 (1713 views)
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Re: [Treejumps] hiper canopys [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote: "all right inestine if I was ready for it wy would I come to this forum???????? well not to sound BLUNT or anything."

For all of you kiddies out there thinking about dropping out of school..... A high school level of grammar and writing skills will take you far.

na I think my aviation business administration degree took me far enoff.


skyblu  (D License)

Jul 16, 2004, 10:50 AM
Post #21 of 26 (1700 views)
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Re: [acrojunky] hiper canopys [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
all right inestine if I was ready for it wy would I come to this forum????????
Einstein.... not "inestine"

In reply to:
na I think my aviation business administration degree took me far enoff.
enough... not "enoff"

Correct spelling makes a big difference in how people perceive your intelligence and credibility. Correct grammar does too.


ManBird  (D 28001)

Jul 16, 2004, 11:08 AM
Post #22 of 26 (1692 views)
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Re: [skyblu] hiper canopys [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Einstein.... not "inestine"
Good call. I read that as "intestine", which makes such as much sense as the rest of the post.


Chrisky

Jul 17, 2004, 3:33 AM
Post #23 of 26 (1642 views)
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Re: [ManBird] hiper canopys [In reply to] Can't Post

Feeding trolls is dangerous business. It decreases the readability of the entire forum noticeably and increases the nuissance tenfold.


Cloggy  (C License)

Jul 17, 2004, 3:59 PM
Post #24 of 26 (1613 views)
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Re: [raymod2, geeeefly, manbird] hiper canopys [In reply to] Can't Post

I've quite a few hours (days even Smile) under a Advance Sigma paraglider. And piisfish is right, these are very good canopies.

At first I was a bit sceptical about these silly wurst on my roof, so I had some lengthy discussions with my paragliding instructors. This is what they told me:

In well designed canopies the stall will always start at the end (I seem to remember something about predictable stall behaviour).
What happens if you fly closer to stall speed is that your nice laminar airflow starts to delaminate and that part of the wing is stalling and you're loosing lift. The wingtip vortices add to this by disturbing the airflow. The winglets block these vortices, so the edges of your wing keep generating lift longer. In other words, the winglets help to delay the stalling of the wing.

Why not put the sausages at the end: because that is not the spot where they are most effective. Right at the edge of the canopy the airflow is not so clean anyway, so you put them in the spot where it is, which is not right on the edge.

Is it a gimmick or not? From what I heard, the theory makes sense to me. How much the real-life contribution of winglets is in a slow flying soft wing is another thing entirely.


VectorBoy  (F 321)

Jul 18, 2004, 7:35 AM
Post #25 of 26 (1575 views)
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Re: [Cloggy] hiper canopys [In reply to] Can't Post

 I think you guys are starting to confuse the names and purpose of winglets and vortice generators

Dr whitcolm ( spelled something like that ) came up with the theory behind the "whitcolm winglets" that are those cute little and sometimes big vertical wings extending up from the tips of wings. These block ( only portions ) of the wing tip vortices and must be mounted on the wing tips.

Vortex generators create them to keep the airflow in the local area attached sometimes helping hold back the oncomming stall or keeping farther down the cord for a longer period. Vortex generators can be found many places like on the leading edges, or up to 25% back from the leading edges, of wings vertical or horizontal stabalizers. Check out the engine cowls on the DC-3. Look around they are everywhere.


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