Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
When does Your Audible first go off on RW jumps

 

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Poll: When does Your Audible first go off on RW jumps
Before intended break off 33 / 22%
At intended break off 92 / 60%
Below Intended break off 17 / 11%
Don't use an Audible 11 / 7%
153 total votes
 
j3zz  (C 104441)

Jul 9, 2004, 1:17 AM
Post #1 of 28 (1639 views)
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When does Your Audible first go off on RW jumps Can't Post

I am of the opinion that an audible is a backup device as such I set mine to go off 500ft below intended break off. My reasoning is that it makes me stay altitude aware with my visual alti. In the UK visual alti's are required.

At the same time 500 ft low gives me enough time to still track and open in time. Typically I break at 4000.

I am interested to hear what other people are doing and why.

Hope this poll has not been done before.
Please give a reason for which ever option you choose


Bosveld  (C 1682)

Jul 9, 2004, 1:46 AM
Post #2 of 28 (1610 views)
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Re: [j3zz] When does Your Audible first go off on RW jumps [In reply to] Can't Post

I had a problem with audibles for a while because when I first got one, I almost started depending on it and lost some of my altitude awareness.
I identified this as a problem because if for some reason it failed or you forgot it on the ground you wouldn't be altitude aware any more. So I stopped using it for RW and only for freeflying and camera jumps.

But it basically just took a forced decision to concentrate on altitude awareness by way of the visual altimeter and not relying on the audible.

Now I am back to checking the visual one and forgetting about the audible. I still wear it as a back-up, you never know, it might just save you one day, if you do forget.

It is set for just before break-off @ 4500AGL.


D22369  (D 22369)

Jul 9, 2004, 3:45 AM
Post #3 of 28 (1584 views)
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Re: [j3zz] When does Your Audible first go off on RW jumps [In reply to] Can't Post

mine is set at 3500', 2000', and 1500'....unless I am working with a student with an assigned pull alt..

if I forget there is a planet about to run me over this will give me enough time to respond irregardless of whether I am freeflying, RW, or messed up in a crew wrap........ not a lot of time if I am freeflying and miss the first signall but enough...
I use my eyes more than it or my wrist mount.
Roy


councilman24  (D 8631)

Jul 9, 2004, 6:11 AM
Post #4 of 28 (1526 views)
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Re: [j3zz] When does Your Audible first go off on RW jumps [In reply to] Can't Post

As I just posted in another thread, I set the breakoff 500' high to allow for reaction time to get the group to go on time. I'm often jumping with lower experienced jumper and sometime direct breakoff traffic. But usually know I'm there before it goes off. To each his own. 500' low is ok, but if it often surprises you it gets you behind the curve at the start of the deployment sequence. If you almost never hear it until your already gone, great.

Pull is 2500', 500' below where I want. If I hear it I've screwed up or pushed lower for a reason (i.e. traffic). ( I don't have any problem going to 2000' with my gear.) Flatline is 1500' to try to keep me from dying. I've ofter thought that audibles ought to say "Pull you asshole before you break me!Cool)

As said in the other post, if an audible surprises my I feel I've screwed up.


j3zz  (C 104441)

Jul 9, 2004, 6:37 AM
Post #5 of 28 (1515 views)
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Re: [councilman24] When does Your Audible first go off on RW jumps [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
As I just posted in another thread, I set the breakoff 500' high to allow for reaction time to get the group to go on time. I'm often jumping with lower experienced jumper and sometime direct breakoff traffic. But usually know I'm there before it goes off. To each his own. 500' low is ok, but if it often surprises you it gets you behind the curve at the start of the deployment sequence. If you almost never hear it until your already gone, great.

Pull is 2500', 500' below where I want. If I hear it I've screwed up or pushed lower for a reason (i.e. traffic). ( I don't have any problem going to 2000' with my gear.) Flatline is 1500' to try to keep me from dying. I've ofter thought that audibles ought to say "Pull you asshole before you break me!Cool)

As said in the other post, if an audible surprises my I feel I've screwed up.


That is my sentiment exactly
I am a low timer relatively I want to know that I am altitude aware without the audible, Also in the UK you have to be open by 2000 and I jump a spectre so I hear my second alarm 2500 sometime during opening.


(This post was edited by j3zz on Jul 9, 2004, 7:18 AM)


nightjumps  (D 23385)

Jul 9, 2004, 7:07 AM
Post #6 of 28 (1496 views)
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Re: [j3zz] When does Your Audible first go off on RW jumps [In reply to] Can't Post

I wear two. One ProTrack, one ProDytter. Both set at the same altitude. Set at; Breakoff (4k), Pull (3k)and do something really different (1800).


Nightingale  (B 26984)

Jul 9, 2004, 8:42 AM
Post #7 of 28 (1464 views)
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Re: [Bosveld] When does Your Audible first go off on RW jumps [In reply to] Can't Post

500 feet below breakoff
500 feet below planned pull altitude
2500 feet (my hard deck)


j3zz  (C 104441)

Jul 9, 2004, 8:59 AM
Post #8 of 28 (1458 views)
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Re: [Nightingale] When does Your Audible first go off on RW jumps [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
2500 feet (my hard deck)

So if you have not got a good canopy at 2500 you are going to chop??

What height do you deploy? and what canopy do you jump?


catfishhunter  (D 28796)

Jul 9, 2004, 9:07 AM
Post #9 of 28 (1452 views)
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Re: [j3zz] When does Your Audible first go off on RW jumps [In reply to] Can't Post

first alarm is 5K. I do alot of RW with many different people break off anywhere between 5k-4k. I like the first one to tell me to start peeking at the ground/alti. Second is 3500-time to look-wave-pull, YOUR GONNA DIE ASSHOLE is set at 1500Wink


Nightingale  (B 26984)

Jul 9, 2004, 9:20 AM
Post #10 of 28 (1441 views)
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Re: [j3zz] When does Your Audible first go off on RW jumps [In reply to] Can't Post

I pull at 4K. Silhouette 190.



5.1.E.3 of the SIM states:

c. You should decide upon and take the appropriate actions by a predetermined altitude:


(1) Students and A-license holders: 2,500 feet.

(2) B-D license holders: 1,800 feet.



since I JUST got my B, and I like to pull at 4, I've seen no reason to change my hard deck.


j3zz  (C 104441)

Jul 9, 2004, 9:28 AM
Post #11 of 28 (1438 views)
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Re: [Nightingale] When does Your Audible first go off on RW jumps [In reply to] Can't Post

I am live in the UK now so was unaware of the US recommendations sounds sensible enough to me,

But I am guessing once you get into formations etc you will not continue to be able to pull at 4000, worth thinking about.


Nightingale  (B 26984)

Jul 9, 2004, 9:31 AM
Post #12 of 28 (1437 views)
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Re: [j3zz] When does Your Audible first go off on RW jumps [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm doing formation stuff now with friends.

They know that I feel I need to work on my canopy skills, and don't mind breaking off a little high for me, since I'm still a beginner.


sdctlc  (D 16437)

Jul 9, 2004, 11:28 AM
Post #13 of 28 (1399 views)
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Re: [j3zz] When does Your Audible first go off on RW jumps [In reply to] Can't Post

I will sometimes have it set to go off 500' high and most of the time I have it to go off at break off. Depends on the jump and what I feel like I guess. No real rhime or reason to it I would guess but if the break is planned at a lower altitude I will give myself a heads up just early so I am not tempted to get the last grip...

Lets break at 4K
Unless were close that is, then 3.5K
Of course if were REALLY CLOSE to the last point then maybe 3K......

Scott C


dgskydive  (C 25738)

Jul 9, 2004, 12:11 PM
Post #14 of 28 (1381 views)
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Re: [Nightingale] When does Your Audible first go off on RW jumps [In reply to] Can't Post

Kris, he is refering to later on in your skydiving. THere will be a point when people say "Hey we are breaking at 4" You won't get much of a choice at that point. either break at 4 or piss everyone off by leaving early and they won't want to jump with ya anymore.

You are fine now, with your jump numbers and experience, but it gets to a point where you should be comfortable with breaking off at 4 grand and dumping at 3 or so.

This next stament is not directed to you, just a genreal comment.

I think this is a problem with AFF. People are afraid to break off at what they consider low altitude. I think it makes some people dangerous at break off time. All of a suddenthey are in a poistion that requires them to break off at let's say 3.5k and they don't track because they are scared of that altitude. Sure it is getting down to the bottom but still plenty of time to track and pull safely.

I see new students doing there hop-n-pops and get all stressed and scared, because it is "so low". If you guys want to get on the good loads later on, you will have to get used to lower break offs.


Nightingale  (B 26984)

Jul 9, 2004, 12:20 PM
Post #15 of 28 (1379 views)
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Re: [dgskydive] When does Your Audible first go off on RW jumps [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm sure, later on, when I'm a little more comfortable with my canopy skills, that pulling lower won't be an issue. Right now, however, I need to do what I'm comfortable with, and will jump with people who respect that. I'm going to be doing a canopy control class sometime in september, and will re-evaluate my hard-deck at that time.

My silhouette has a long snivel, and when I was pulling lower for a few jumps, I had just enough time to pull, do a quick control check, and fly over to where I wanted to start my pattern before landing. Right now, I like a little more time than that.


BikerBabe  (D 18644)

Jul 10, 2004, 9:44 AM
Post #16 of 28 (1304 views)
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Re: [j3zz] When does Your Audible first go off on RW jumps [In reply to] Can't Post

It's funny, but even when I'm doing hard-core 4-way, my internal clock tells me when it's about time to go.

Sometimes the thought will cross my mind that "gee, this is a realy long skydive, shouldn't we be breaking off soon?" then my dytter will beep. Those are invariably the jumps where we got a bit of extra altitude for one reason or another.

I don't look at the ground on 4-way training jumps. But my internal "clock" is pretty good at telling time. Weird.

Mine is set for breakoff altitude.


j3zz  (C 104441)

Jul 12, 2004, 6:19 AM
Post #17 of 28 (1220 views)
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Re: [j3zz] When does Your Audible first go off on RW jumps [In reply to] Can't Post

On inspection of the votes it would appear that over 80% of people set the audibles for break off or above,

Am I being stupid setting mine below break off?
See original post for reason.
Should I change to set it for break off or above?

I would value to experienced peoples input
Thanks


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Jul 12, 2004, 8:27 AM
Post #18 of 28 (1211 views)
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Re: [dgskydive] When does Your Audible first go off on RW jumps [In reply to] Can't Post

>I think this is a problem with AFF. People are afraid to break off at what
>they consider low altitude.

That's definitely a change. I made my first jump from 3000 feet and worked down from there. On my first jump from 12,500 I remember thinking "no one can spot from this altitude!" I think it's a very good idea for newer AFF jumpers to plan a few hop and pops where they get out low (and that does NOT mean the usual Perris "hop and pop" where you get 4500-6000 feet.). This is an especially good idea when someone who learned at a turbine DZ ends up at a cessna DZ - do a few jumps from 2500 or 2000 from a C182. The DZ will appreciate it (plane will climb a lot faster after you leave) and you'll get a good feel for what opening at that altitude is like. And at cessna DZ's, breakoff altitudes and pull altitudes tend to be a bit lower, both because SL is more popular at such places and altitude is a lot more "expensive" in terms of time to get there.


tbrown  (D 6533)

Jul 12, 2004, 6:46 PM
Post #19 of 28 (1150 views)
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Re: [dgskydive] When does Your Audible first go off on RW jumps [In reply to] Can't Post

You are fine now, with your jump numbers and experience, but it gets to a point where you should be comfortable with breaking off at 4 grand and dumping at 3 or so. I think this is a problem with AFF. People are afraid to break off at what they consider low altitude.
Amen & hallelujeh brother! In the old days, when students started out on static line, we used to work our way UP to altitudes like 3500 ft - where we'd do our first 10 second delay. They told us it was safe and it was higher than I'd jumped so far, so that was good enough for me. We were comfy with pulling at 2500, but would go to 2 grand if we needed to, usually for better seperation. We used to routinely breakoff 8-10 ways at 3500 ft and this was considered normal, safe, by-the-book procedure.

Higher breakoff and pull altitudes in general are a good thing, I ENJOY breaking off from an 8 way at 4500 ft and dumping at 3 grand, it's more relaxed. But novice jumpers really need to get comfy with 3 grand. I won't suggest anything lower, though I'm still prepared to go to 2 grand or slightly below in a real pinch (hasn't happened lately either). But if you're doing formations and pulling above 3 grand, you're needlessly wasting freefall time that the group can safely use.

I still don't use an audible, but think they're a good idea. Hope Santa is listening...


headoverheels  (D License)

Jul 12, 2004, 7:06 PM
Post #20 of 28 (1145 views)
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Re: [j3zz] When does Your Audible first go off on RW jumps [In reply to] Can't Post

 
I have an old single-altitude Dytter, which I set at an altitude where I should be well into my track, typically 3000 feet. An exception was the 357-way, where I set it 1000 feet higher than breakoff, as an indication to a) be docked, and b) watch the base for the break-off key.


masher  (D 3806)

Jul 12, 2004, 7:07 PM
Post #21 of 28 (1144 views)
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Re: [billvon] When does Your Audible first go off on RW jumps [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm with you there.

I'm a static line baby. 2500'?? Whats the problem? You can do 15 seconds from 4k!

I was scared on my first jump from height: "It's too high!"

:)


.

anyway, my dytter is set at:

3500' -> you should have broken off by now.
2500' -> you should have a canopy by now.
1500' -> wtf are you doing!??!!??


Normally, I hear my first alarm when I'm tracking and my second just as the slider is coming down. I've heard my third alarm once as my slider was coming down.


sundevil777  (D License)

Jul 12, 2004, 8:03 PM
Post #22 of 28 (1131 views)
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Re: [j3zz] When does Your Audible first go off on RW jumps [In reply to] Can't Post

I like the first alarm to be 500 feet above break off. Gives me advance warning that there isn't much time left, and if it fails to work, I am more likely to notice (at a safer/higher altitude) that it failed, compared to setting it low.

I really think this 'don't get getting dependant on the audible' mindset is overblown. It is a tool, and I think its value and safety is highest when the first alarm is set above breakoff.


DancingFlame  (C 177476)

Jul 13, 2004, 3:46 AM
Post #23 of 28 (1109 views)
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Re: [j3zz] When does Your Audible first go off on RW jumps [In reply to] Can't Post

I set mine exactly at breakoff altitude, if I'm not going to signal the breakoff. If I should signal, I set my audible 150 ft above the breakoff altitude.


Squeak  (E 1313)

Jul 13, 2004, 5:27 AM
Post #24 of 28 (1094 views)
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Re: [j3zz] When does Your Audible first go off on RW jumps [In reply to] Can't Post

Mine set for
5K, nearing break off
3K time to pull
2K is that Fugging thing open yetSmile


jumperconway  (D 24335)

Jul 13, 2004, 11:14 AM
Post #25 of 28 (1070 views)
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Re: [j3zz] When does Your Audible first go off on RW jumps [In reply to] Can't Post

4000' and it means; finish the last point!Wink


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