Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Relative Work:
4 way exit - Caravan

 


Premier skybytch  (D License)

Jun 8, 2004, 7:19 AM
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4 way exit - Caravan Can't Post

What's a relatively bombproof four way to take out of a Caravan?

How is it set it up in the door?

Thanks! Smile


bodypilot1  (D 16037)

Jun 8, 2004, 9:18 AM
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Re: [skybytch] 4 way exit - Caravan [In reply to] Can't Post

Exit the Caravan tha same way as you would a Twin Otter. No exit is bombproof. I have taught many freeflyers what I thought was bombproof exit and some have managed to funnel it anyway.Sly
They got it eventualy though.Wink

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Premier skybytch  (D License)

Jun 8, 2004, 9:35 AM
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Re: [bodypilot1] 4 way exit - Caravan [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
No exit is bombproof.

Well. okay... how about something that four people are likely to figure out if they make 10 or so jumps together? Wink


bodypilot1  (D 16037)

Jun 8, 2004, 9:45 AM
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Re: [skybytch] 4 way exit - Caravan [In reply to] Can't Post

Okay.
A meeker exit is solid one for you.
Look at putting the pink in the plane as front and him diving out ther door.
Make sure he has most of his upper body out the door on the count, and tell him to launch STRONG out to the wing tip.
Have fun!Wink

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Stacy  (D License)

Jun 8, 2004, 9:47 AM
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Re: [skybytch] 4 way exit - Caravan [In reply to] Can't Post

stairstep diamond, bow, sidebody, meeker are pretty easy to take out. Meekers will tend to spin on people who aren't really aware, though. Caravan is similar to the otter exits, except the door is slightly smaller. You'll feel like you have way too much room when jumping in the otter if accustomed to the caravan. Exit speed seems a little slower to me in the caravan.

I like launching the bow with newbies. Easy to present and pretty typical of exit positions. check out omniskore for the dive pool images. Smile

http://www.omniskore.com/...PC/4-way_randoms.htm

__


(This post was edited by Stacy on Jun 8, 2004, 9:52 AM)


larsrulz  (C 34603)

Jun 8, 2004, 12:01 PM
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Re: [skybytch] 4 way exit - Caravan [In reply to] Can't Post

I did a 4-way scramble out of caravans immediately off student status. All four jumps launched a meeker and not a single went badly. Just be sure rear float falls off and pulls towards the ground as to keep diver from falling over and funeling.

If it isn't obvious, you'll have three out and one diver.


bodypilot1  (D 16037)

Jun 8, 2004, 1:34 PM
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Re: [larsrulz] 4 way exit - Caravan [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
If it isn't obvious, you'll have three out and one diver.

Wrong.
You'll have 2 out and 2 in.
Front is inside facing outside the door with a left hand grip on the left leg of the center while having his upper body out the door. Or your shoulder outside works well.
Center is outside facing in with a left hand grip on the bar and a right hand grip on the rears left leg.
Inside center is inside facing out and gripping the arm of the outside centers left arm with his left arm that holding the bar and taking a right hand grip on the fronts left leg.
Rear is outside facing in and gripping the inside centers left leg and holding the bar with him right hand.

Hope this helps.

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Ron

Jun 8, 2004, 1:35 PM
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Re: [skybytch] 4 way exit - Caravan [In reply to] Can't Post

An opposed stairstep is hard to beat.

Front is diving
OC and rear are floating.
IC is inside.

Front hops up toward the wing (Not out to the tip, more like right next to the wing and fuse)

OC has to kick his hips up so that his spine is level with the ground.

Rear falls off and tries to have his spine level with the ground as well, while jumping out enough to counter fronts hop out. Also the rear has to pull tension on the formation by going down a bit.

IC has to sneak his hips out of the plane while trying to have his spine level with the ground...

Now this thing will rotate about 30-40 degrees counter clockwise.

It should rotate less than a meker...And if it does rotate the fastest way to stop the rotation is to key that thing.


rehmwa  (D 12816)

Jun 8, 2004, 1:44 PM
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Re: [Ron] 4 way exit - Caravan [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.dropzone.com/...post=1093362#1093362


RozeAY  (D License)

Jun 8, 2004, 2:09 PM
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Re: [skybytch] 4 way exit - Caravan [In reply to] Can't Post

In my opinion, a sidebody is the most solid exit to launch. It is not as likely to spin as a meeker, nor is the outside center as likely to flip under or the point to flip over. Everybody has 2 solid grips and a lot of control over the person they are gripping.


bodypilot1  (D 16037)

Jun 8, 2004, 2:13 PM
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Re: [Ron] 4 way exit - Caravan [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
And if it does rotate the fastest way to stop the rotation is to key that thing.

Great coaching!....hahahahSly

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daveb  (D 23982)

Jun 8, 2004, 4:22 PM
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Re: [bodypilot1] 4 way exit - Caravan [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
If it isn't obvious, you'll have three out and one diver.
Wrong.
You'll have 2 out and 2 in.
Front is inside facing outside the door with a left hand grip on the left leg of the center while having his upper body out the door. Or your shoulder outside works well.

On the occasions I've had to exit a Caravan, I'm almost always outside, and always on a meeker: outside aircraft, facing out, right arm behind and hanging on, left arm gripping OC leg. I've my doubts I'd be able to successfully launch a meeker as point from inside.

I don't find Caravan exits to be similar to Otter exits. I have to change my mindset and technique, and some exits just do not work/fit without major alteration. Sigh. Perhaps if I had a better attitude about Caravan exits, I could be more successful at them. I'm not strongly motivated.

Bulletproof exits don't exist. A meeker is rather solid, and can take alot of abuse. A stairstep is relatively easy, also.

I think the easiest, most consistent exit is a star, three out, one in: the inside (IC) gives the count, holds chest straps of middle (OC) and rear (T). Front (P) holds on to aircraft with right arm, already presented, OC grips P arm, T grips OC arm. On exit, P and T get IC grips, and IC releases chest straps.


bodypilot1  (D 16037)

Jun 8, 2004, 4:36 PM
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Re: [daveb] 4 way exit - Caravan [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
outside aircraft, facing out, right arm behind and hanging on, left arm gripping OC leg. I've my doubts I'd be able to successfully launch a meeker as point from inside.

Maybe your thinking is because your facing out, and your upper torso is mostly out while holding onto the inside of the plane with your hand and fore arm all the way up to your elbow, that your outside?
For the point to get a good launch you must be bent over and crouched enough to get a good spring type launch toward the wingtip, thus leaving most of your body inside the door frame with both feet still inside as well as your ass.Tongue
So, point is refered to me as inside.Wink

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Possum

Jun 9, 2004, 3:35 AM
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Re: [daveb] 4 way exit - Caravan [In reply to] Can't Post

"I think the easiest, most consistent exit is a star, three out, one in: the inside (IC) gives the count, holds chest straps of middle (OC) and rear (T). Front (P) holds on to aircraft with right arm, already presented, OC grips P arm, T grips OC arm. On exit, P and T get IC grips, and IC releases chest straps. "

I like close to the same setup, but as a Stardian, instead of a star. Its easier for the point to get his/her hips into the rel wind. IC takes rear chest strap and point's right arm gripper, and OC takes point's leg, rather than his arm. Other than that, the grips and positions are the same as Dave's Star. I think one of the strengths of both the Star launch, and to a slightly lesser extent, the Stardian launch, is its simplicity of grip taking, which helps newer jumpers relax in the door a bit better, as they are not as confused about which grips to take. I've used the Stardian while coaching several scrambles teams, and it has worked every time.
Mitch


dgskydive  (C 25738)

Jun 14, 2004, 4:02 PM
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Re: [skybytch] 4 way exit - Caravan [In reply to] Can't Post

Lisa, I wouldn't ask what is a Bomproof exit. You are not always going to be able to do your favorite exit.

If I where you I would focus on doing as many different exits as you can, of course getting to know each exit as best as possible, by repeating it more then once during the day. WE did a whole day of traing doing only Sat. exits and B.C told us to change it up. IF we are having a bad problem with a certain exit then maybe spend an entire day on it, since we are starting late training hardcore we need to get as many different ones in as we can.

All that being said, the Meeker seems to be peoples favorite exit to launch. Most of the time it will spin a bit counter clockwise out the door.

Point = diving, right arm out of the plane ready to present, left hand on theleft leg of the O.C. Pushing out and up a bit getting the right arm presented as much as possible. To the Point flyer it should feel like the formation is dropping away a bit from him (or her). If they are really heads up they may even dig in a bit to help keep it from spinning.

O.C = floating with left hand on Bar and right hand on left leg of Tail. (this is my position), As I give the count I go down on set. Then out on go, Keeping my eyes on I.C. and making sure I get my legs presented fast. We where using a leg swing, but my leg kept getting ripped out of our point flyers hand as I swung it back out on go. Now he helps me to bring it up as I get going.

I.C. = they are in side with there left hand on O.C. left upper arm grip and right hand on Point left leg. Pretty straight forward for this slot. Just get out and get presented keeping eyes with O.C and maybe evan helping point to stay up.

Tail = I like doing this slot on exit. We have the tail facing in with his left hand on I.C. left leg and right hand on the bar. Sometimes I even head jam it. The trick to tail is to think about bringing your legs up and getting your head down as you clear the door. They have to present and get there body into the relaitve wind. B.C. explained it to me by saying , "think about hitting your head on the bottom of the door as you leave. Of course you want to clear it but, that is kinda of the mind set. Extend yourself out and bring your head down while presenting. your body into the wind. DOn't get your side into the wind. Make sure your chest into it.

Hope that makes sense.

BTW my favorite exit is A (unipod). NOt real hard and pretty straight forward I think.


Premier skybytch  (D License)

Jun 14, 2004, 4:16 PM
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Re: [dgskydive] 4 way exit - Caravan [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
You are not always going to be able to do your favorite exit.

We aren't making a lot of training jumps before our first competition - only going to be able to do around 15. We're thinking for us, for the first competition anyway, it'll be better to pick one formation to exit every round, then transition to the first point - we'd rather lose time transitioning than recovering from a funnel.

We're probably going to stick with the star exit we did last weekend.

Didja know it's hard to correctly jam up a Caravan exit in an Otter mockup? Crazy


dgskydive  (C 25738)

Jun 14, 2004, 4:31 PM
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Re: [skybytch] 4 way exit - Caravan [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
it'll be better to pick one formation to exit every round, then transition to the first point - we'd rather lose time transitioning than recovering from a funnel.

I guess ya gotta do what ya gotta do! I would take out the star then. I know you can launch that at least.
Tongue

Watch for our scores on Monday on the SSL site. BTW did I mention I got Tony to commit and be our 4th! Pretty cool huh?


rehmwa  (D 12816)

Jun 15, 2004, 6:51 AM
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Re: [dgskydive] 4 way exit - Caravan [In reply to] Can't Post

Well, the meeker can spin if the team isn't fully relaxed on exit, although it is pretty 'safe'.

I like the Bow for a couple reasons, each person is practicing their primary exit job - and the exit is pretty safe once you get it figured out (5 grips, just like a meeker, but without the built-in spin since three of the team members are pointing in about the same direction).

Point - presenting to the wing from the inside.
IC - getting the hips out
OC - getting the hips out and presenting clean
tail - dropping and head jamming

Edit: Even though we have our normal exits and exits we won't do in competition, I think every team should try all the exits just to see how fun they are and what they can learn. i.e., it's pretty easy and efficient to launch a meeker for a quick snowflake - but launching the snowflake is a ton of fun and really emphasizes timing and placement so there is a lot to learn there. Ditto cat, adder, hammer, etc.


(This post was edited by rehmwa on Jun 15, 2004, 10:12 AM)


pr0ject42

Jun 15, 2004, 8:02 AM
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Re: [skybytch] 4 way exit - Caravan [In reply to] Can't Post

My favorite exit is a bow. I suppose the only tricky part about the bow is the tail has to head jam. I'm the tail and it is one of my more solid exits. It is just rad to watch the whole thing form up right out of the door. This one tends to spin less than a meeker or stairstep. Not sure how to describe it other than just stand the random up and put it in the door. If your OC isn't super beefy, have them grab the bar with both hands and have the point and IC take grips on them.

Me "So I take it that I take the OC's grip and pick up the IC's grip out the door?"

Todd Hawkins "Head jam, you pussy!"

At any rate, it is round enough to transition to a meeker or stairstep quickly, but long enough to transition to a 1 or bundy pretty quickly too.

Good luck this season!


Stacy  (D License)

Jun 15, 2004, 2:36 PM
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Re: [rehmwa] 4 way exit - Caravan [In reply to] Can't Post

whoohoo! I was right! Everyone loves Bow! Sly

__


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
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Jun 16, 2004, 10:29 AM
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Re: [skybytch] 4 way exit - Caravan [In reply to] Can't Post

Bill's Patented Quincy Exit -

Basically a round with crossgrips. Most experienced jumper front float, least experienced rear float. Two floaters, rear floater takes front floater's arm. Front diver takes both chest straps, rear diver takes rear float's chest strap and front diver's arm. On exit front float launches hard up and out. If the others are of questionable ability the launch is more out than up; this will spin the piece and keep it relatively flat while people take a few seconds to remember how to fly.


flyangel2

Jun 21, 2004, 1:36 PM
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Re: [billvon] 4 way exit - Caravan [In reply to] Can't Post

My Patented Quincy Exit is a zipper. I can get people to launch that thing from any aircraft.

Two out, two in.

Most experienced jumper is front float. Then the less experienced is middle/rear float. The person inside closes to the front float takes the grip on the arm of the front float with their left arm. That's the arm that front float is using to hand on to the bar with. The other person inside next to middle/rear float takes the arm grip of the jumper that is floating (middle/rear) with their left hand, and takes a harness grip on the jumper in front of them, that is also in the door.
Middle/rear float takes the harness grip of the front float. Everyone leaves on ready, and presents zippers to the wind. So far this exit has never failed me when I LO at WFFC.


divenfly03  (B License)

Jun 26, 2004, 11:41 AM
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Re: [billvon] 4 way exit - Caravan [In reply to] Can't Post

Some great posts on exits in this thread. I'm just beginning some 3 and 4-way exits out of a Porter, which has a low wing. Any safety factors to consider in this regard? Any suggestions to a newbie on where to get more information on exits in general? It seems like most people pretty much make it up as they go along, which leaves lots of room for a less successful outcome. Knowing the best positions for the less experienced jumper, the most efficient grips, etc. would make it a lot easier to pick up.


Premier quade  (D 22635)
Moderator
Jun 26, 2004, 10:50 PM
Post #24 of 25 (1233 views)
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Re: [skybytch] 4 way exit - Caravan [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
We aren't making a lot of training jumps before our first competition - only going to be able to do around 15. We're thinking for us, for the first competition anyway, it'll be better to pick one formation to exit every round, then transition to the first point - we'd rather lose time transitioning than recovering from a funnel.

This isn't a bad plan.

There are, the last time I counted, 38 different A-slot exits in 4-way.

I'm not a rocket scientist, but I don't think it takes one to realize there just ain't no way to practice all of those plus the mirrors and b-slots in 15 jumps. Wink

Not only that, but you only have 35 seconds to work with to begin with so a funnel, even a minor one can easily blow up to a third of the time.

A simple, nearly bombproof exit and transition makes a lot of sense for a newbie team forming in the middle of the season. Just don't make a habit of it for any longer than required. Wink


ltdiver  (D 20506)

Jun 27, 2004, 6:43 AM
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Re: [quade] 4 way exit - Caravan [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
We aren't making a lot of training jumps before our first competition - only going to be able to do around 15. We're thinking for us, for the first competition anyway, it'll be better to pick one formation to exit every round, then transition to the first point - we'd rather lose time transitioning than recovering from a funnel.

This isn't a bad plan.

There are, the last time I counted, 38 different A-slot exits in 4-way.

I'm not a rocket scientist, but I don't think it takes one to realize there just ain't no way to practice all of those plus the mirrors and b-slots in 15 jumps. Wink

Not only that, but you only have 35 seconds to work with to begin with so a funnel, even a minor one can easily blow up to a third of the time.

A simple, nearly bombproof exit and transition makes a lot of sense for a newbie team forming in the middle of the season. Just don't make a habit of it for any longer than required. Wink

You have an uncanny knack for pointing out the obvious, quade. Wink

ltdiver



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