Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
..Downsizing....

 


Hazarrd

Jun 22, 2004, 3:13 PM
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..Downsizing.... Can't Post

im looking to downsize from sabre2 170 to either a 150 or 135. i feel very proficient with the 170 and I have around 180 jumps on it. i was considering getting a demo of the 150 but i sort of feel like it isn't neccessary. im leaning away from getting a 135 because it might be to small for me right now. is it worth demoing the 135 or is that just asking for trouble. and what about the 150? is there that big of a difference between the 170 and 150? Thanks.


Hooknswoop  (D License)

Jun 22, 2004, 3:16 PM
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Re: [Hazarrd] ..Downsizing.... [In reply to] Can't Post

How are you doing w/ Bill Von's list of canopy manuevers?

Derek


Hazarrd

Jun 22, 2004, 3:19 PM
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Re: [Hooknswoop] ..Downsizing.... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
How are you doing w/ Bill Von's list of canopy manuevers?

Derek

ive done it all except "initiate a high performance landing with double front risers and front riser turn to landing", and i dont really plan on it just yet.


CanuckInUSA  (D 26396)

Jun 22, 2004, 3:21 PM
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Re: [Hazarrd] ..Downsizing.... [In reply to] Can't Post

You should know better not to ask these sorts of questions on a public internet forum. Talk to the people who know you, know your mindset towards jumping and know what sort of skills and judgement you have as they see you at the DZ. Here on the net, we don't see you jump, don't know what you can and can't handle and we will only give you mixed messages.

Ultimately it is your choice. Just make sure it's an educated rational choice.


Hooknswoop  (D License)

Jun 22, 2004, 3:22 PM
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Re: [Hazarrd] ..Downsizing.... [In reply to] Can't Post

I can't say anything about the 150 w/o seeing you fly the 170, but I think the 135 would be a bad idea. The 15 sq ft from the 150 to the 135 is about the same increase in preformance as the 20 sq ft from the 170 to the 150.

Talk to the Instructors at your DZ and focus on the ones that either say "no" or "maybe" and find out why they say that.

Edit: Why do you want to downsize? (Honest, serious question, not a "Why the hell do you want to do that?" type of question)

Derek


(This post was edited by Hooknswoop on Jun 22, 2004, 3:40 PM)


Hazarrd

Jun 22, 2004, 3:26 PM
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Re: [CanuckInUSA] ..Downsizing.... [In reply to] Can't Post

[reply]You should know better not to ask these sorts of questions on a public internet forum. Talk to the people who know you, know your mindset towards jumping and know what sort of skills and judgement you have as they see you at the DZ. Here on the net, we don't see you jump, don't know what you can and can't handle and we will only give you mixed messages.

Ultimately it is your choice. Just make sure it's an educated rational choice.[/reply]

hey canuck...

well, the question was more geared towards others who may have taken that route. i know you cant give me a decision based on my canopy skills. and to be honest, experienced jumpers on here could probably give me just as good of an answer than my instructors, mainly because i jump a various dropzones. however, asking people i know that jump might help out... i mean, i land the 170 consistently on target, my landings are smooth, and im very conservative under canopy. so given that information, do you have any other thoughts? thanks..


(This post was edited by Hazarrd on Jun 22, 2004, 3:30 PM)


FrogNog  (C 34484)

Jun 22, 2004, 3:36 PM
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Re: [Hazarrd] ..Downsizing.... [In reply to] Can't Post

He can't give you a sure answer, but maybe he can stand behind a guess I have: baby steps make for less risk.

That puts it in your court (and with the people you can talk to who know and watch you): how much risk do you want to take?


CanuckInUSA  (D 26396)

Jun 22, 2004, 3:43 PM
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Re: [Hazarrd] ..Downsizing.... [In reply to] Can't Post

I did do a similar downsizing progression last year and this is how things went for me (they may or may not work for you). I put 225 jumps on a Sabre2 170 last year and then wondered if I should buy a Sabre2 150 or go elliptical. Well due to the fast recovery arc of the Sabre2, I decided to buy an elliptical Crossfire2 canopy. But what size? Logic would dictate that I should get a 149 (or better yet a 169). But did I listen to logic? Nope ... I started flying a 139 and had more scary moments under the Sabre2 170 than I did on the Crossfire2 139 (I would like to think that certain lessons were learned on the larger canopy and to date ... knock on wood ... the mistakes have not been repeated). So can one go from a 170 to a 135? The answer is yes. But that doesn't mean it was right. What has keep me alive so far ... once again knocking on wood ... is that I was trained in flight before I was a skydiver, I am a very current jumper (if you don't find me at the DZ on weekends you'll find me flicking myself off of a legal span in potato-land) and I did receive some canopy control training, I read books on canopy control and I dedicate jumps towards canopy control. But I very well could be another incidents report this weekend if I am not smart flying my canopies (especially that pocket rocket Crossfire2 119 which I haven't jumped in three weeks and only have 30+ jumps on it).

Get to know the slow speed characteristics of your canopy before you downsize (of course following BillVons list is good as well). The reason I say this is if you know how to fly your canopy at slow air speeds, you'll actually have a chance to land it in a tight area and you will have flat turns and stall recognition as part of your eye-to-hand muscle memory. Swooping is fun, but being able to put down that pocket rocket accurately at slow air speeds requires time under canopy and may save your ass one day.

Ultimately it is your decision ...


(This post was edited by CanuckInUSA on Jun 22, 2004, 3:46 PM)


Premier skybytch  (D License)

Jun 22, 2004, 4:27 PM
Post #9 of 12 (908 views)
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Re: [Hooknswoop] ..Downsizing.... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Why do you want to downsize? (Honest, serious question, not a "Why the hell do you want to do that?" type of question)

I'd have to ask the same question. Why do you want to downsize?


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Jun 22, 2004, 4:34 PM
Post #10 of 12 (905 views)
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Re: [Hazarrd] ..Downsizing.... [In reply to] Can't Post

Demo demo demo! Asking questions like:

"is there that big of a difference between the 170 and 150?"

is hard to answer absolutely. Once you get to around a 1.2 to 1 loading, things start happening a lot more quickly. You'll definitely notice the difference of going down one size, and if you want a bit more performance, that will get it for you. Is it a really big difference? If you've never jumped a 150 before - probably yes.


DancingFlame  (C 177476)

Jun 24, 2004, 10:50 AM
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Re: [Hazarrd] ..Downsizing.... [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
and im very conservative under canopy
This is one of the reasons why I would not recommend to skip a size. It is always a bad idea... Your wingload on a 150 will be at about 1.27, but you've never done a HP landing. Then why downsize?


WrongWay  (D 27371)

Jun 24, 2004, 11:15 AM
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Re: [Hooknswoop] ..Downsizing.... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I can't say anything about the 150 w/o seeing you fly the 170, but I think the 135 would be a bad idea.

I agree. Jumping down two sizes is almost always a very bad idea.



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