Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Swooping and Canopy Control:
H&P from altitude


kelly  (C License)

Mar 21, 2002, 1:39 PM
Post #1 of 8 (1309 views)
H&P from altitude Can't Post

For those of you who do ALOT of hop and pops from high altitudes to further develop your canopy skills:
what drills did you do?
did you jump solo? two way? Three way? larger?

I already practice breaked turns, slight turns during the flare, stalling my canopy, R & L turns, riser control/ turns .
can you guys think of more drills to do?
I'll probably get 2 days a week to jump more than just on the first or last loads... so for those 2 days a week i want to do high H&P's..
i have 68 jumps, not very current at the moment, have only put/ made 8 jumps on a spectre 135 since jan 1, 02. I'll be getting to jump more within the next month or so.
my wing loading is exactly 1:1. My landings vary.. ill have 15 stand up awesome landings, 3 bad ones, then a shot of good ones again... etc etc. its more mental (for me) than anything else.
I dont want to be an awesome freeflyer, i dont want to turn 20 points on a 4 way, i dont want a camera on my head, a board on my feet or anything like that. I just want to be a good canopy pilot, the other stuff will come in time. (please dont take that like i dont care to work on my FF skills, I'm content with where their at.... )
so how did you guys do it? what worked best? what was a waste of a jump tix? (if anything?)

axe96bam  (D 23380)

Mar 21, 2002, 1:49 PM
Post #2 of 8 (1274 views)
Re: H&P from altitude [In reply to] Can't Post

Kelly, I did my 14k hop-n-pop to see how my new canopies behave. I do turns with toggles, risers (front and rear) work with the breaks set first and than with them released. I am look at the amount of altitude each maneuver eats up. It is really important if you are going to try any of them close to the ground at any point. Once you learn your canopy's behavior, you can just do regular hop-n-pops and work on your landings. Or do regular skydives, get you FF time and than enjoy your canopy.


rhino  (D 22500)

Mar 21, 2002, 4:33 PM
Post #3 of 8 (1252 views)
Re: H&P from altitude [In reply to] Can't Post


This is my HUMBLE opinion. I am not a hooksnswoop. But this is the method I am using to learn how a canopy flies as quickly as possible.

One of three jumps I make is a hop - n - pop from altitude.. Especially on a new canopy. On a new canopy my first 50 will probably be hop-n-pops.

The first thing I do it pay attention to the sub-terminal opening characteristics. If I am going to open sub terminal I won't double stow the rubber bands normally as I have had a bag hang for a few seconds and scare the hell out of me.. It eventually finished its chink, chink, chink to the top and opened with 2 line twists.. But it was o.k.

I practice staying evenly balanced in the leg straps on opening so the canopy has the best chance of opening correctly and on heading.

After the canopy is open I do a couple of turns with the rear risers to simulate emergency maneuvers. I carefully observe the dive and the turn rate.

Then with the brakes stowed still I do the accuracy trick and check the glide of the canopy. How flat can I make it fly with the breaks stowed. How slow can I make it fly approaching stall speed in brakes? You never know.. I may need to stop in an emergency with rear risers.

I unstow the brakes. Letting the canopy fly while observing the glide angle at full flight..

I pull down the rear risers again and observe how much the canopy flattens out.. Trying to find the most efficient spot for a long spot.

Then I start pulling the toggles down and compare to the rear risers to see what is flatter. It will be different in different wind conditions. I find the most efficient point in rear risers as far as glide angle.

Now that I have an idea of the glide angle "while at the same time making sure I can make it back to the dz. Most of this should be upwind", I then check the stall speed of the canopy.. How slow will it go.. How fast does it recover. How much does it dive when it recovers. And how much energy does the canopy have to have for me to have an effective flair? Simulating having to STOP 100 feet off of the ground, letting the breaks up the canopy will go back into a dive, there will be a point where the canopy has just enough energy to flair safely. I like to know that point well.

Now I let it into full flight again and flare it over and over again.. Concentrating on feel and balance in the harness and the time it takes for the canopy to go from full flight to straight and level flight bleeding off airspeed. I like to observe how much energy the canopy can maintain during that transition from down to straight forward and starting the flair. It is the rock point of the canopy. THIS IS PROBABLY THE MOST IMPORTANT THING in my opinion. Very important to know the timing of the rock point of your canopy as that is what will enable you to time your flair properly. Be as smooth as possible. The less off balance you can be in the harness and the smoother you can be with the toggles minimizing the amount of energy lost from going down to going into the flair the better "easier" flare you will have.

After learning the rock point of the canopy I start into front risers. Diving the canopy and checking how fast I can bring it out of a full dive and shut it down. Staying smooth and balanced is important, as you want to conserve the energy of the canopy. It's like a stock car rounding a corner. If he takes it wide and smooth he has a minimal loss of speed and energy.. If he cuts it too sharp he loses his speed, traction and energy. Stay balanced and smooth.

Again I think practice flairs are the most important. Learning everything above can take time and many jumps. It took me at least 40 hop-n-pops on my Diablo110 at 1.7 to get a pretty good grasp on the canopy. If you are loading it well stay out of the same airspace as everyone else so you dont hurt anyone while you are concentrating on how to fly the canopy.

Those 40 jumps gave me a great memory of the canopy performance and somewhat of a kinesthetic reflex if you will.. I learn most of what I do by feel.

And don't forget Flat turns.. They are VERY important..

I hope this gives you an idea of how to approach your canopy learning process. It gives me a method to the madness. If you fail to plan you are planning to fail.

Again all of you canopy bad asses loading at 9.2:1 this is my HUMBLE opinion. Wink


Semper Fi .....


rgoper  (C 32349)

Mar 21, 2002, 5:43 PM
Post #4 of 8 (1239 views)
Re: H&P from altitude [In reply to] Can't Post

**Again all of you canopy bad asses loading at 9.2:1 this is my HUMBLE opinion.**

it's none of my buisness really, because i am not one of what you refer to above, but in my HUMBLE opinion, you could've left that phrase out, surely you not in the "complex" stage of your career? be kewel! take care.........


"Ah Geez, That's Just Another Thing I'll Never Do!"

ramon  (D 26115)

Mar 21, 2002, 6:33 PM
Post #5 of 8 (1228 views)
do some crew and dogfights [In reply to] Can't Post

This will make you a good canopy pilot too. in addition to flat turning and practice flares...that is common sense...Do this once a weekend you will learn your canopy and your friends will get better too.

normal crew
I've done a three stack when I had abuot as many jumps as you. Couple of good crew dogs took me up. Minimally do some high pulls with friends and try to stay close..really close. try and bump might need to use, brakes, rear risers and front risers too if the canopies are mismatched..that is very good practice.

Small canopy stuff.
When Wane and I hop n pop together we usually touch end cells he Xaos 80 me FX 109 and all canopies since downsizing extremes, samurais, vengeance, alphas.).

We did a two stack with an extreme 99 and my Vengeance 135, and did the first all cross braced crew at Spaceland (FX99 and FX109).

We always do clear and pussl together and try and fly side by side alternating barrel rolls. then one of us will do a hard 180 front riser turn and the other will follow. we sort of dog fight.


We usually swoop highest wingloading first so that we no who is holding in brakes and who is hooking. We talk our complet swoops over on the plane quickly so no one is suprised or in the way.


(This post was edited by ramon on Mar 21, 2002, 6:36 PM)

rhino  (D 22500)

Mar 21, 2002, 6:39 PM
Post #6 of 8 (1223 views)
Re: H&P from altitude [In reply to] Can't Post

That was not only a compliment to the good canopy pilots flying a high wing loading but something said in a jokingly manner Wink

be kewel yourself Smile

Semper Fi .....


AggieDave  (D License)

Mar 21, 2002, 9:56 PM
Post #7 of 8 (1190 views)
Re: do some crew and dogfights [In reply to] Can't Post

Malachi and I have gone up and done the "dog fight thing a few times. Good fun and it does increase your canopy piloting skills, atleast it helped me out a lot. It gave me a frame of reference (we had the same fall rate under canopy, when I was jumping a Hornet 190) for doing different riser dives and stuff. Not only that, it was a blast to do. Smile

"ahhhhoo...the little guy hasn't done anything yet and you know its going to be good..."

rhino  (D 22500)

Mar 22, 2002, 1:50 PM
Post #8 of 8 (1132 views)
Re: do some crew and dogfights [In reply to] Can't Post

I was jumping an FX114 dogfighting Charlie Mullins on his VX59.

NOT.. He was flying circles around me.. But it was fun!! Smile

Semper Fi .....


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