Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
Watch your altitude

 


unclbennie  (B License)

Apr 13, 2001, 8:13 PM
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Watch your altitude Can't Post

A friend asked me to jump her brand new Safire today. She is unable to jump right now and she wanted to see her canopy in the air. I said "sure!!" since my gear is waiting to be put together it was a way to get into the sky. Did a fun two way with my brother, broke high as I wanted to open high (4000) and see how this canopy flared etc. Opened with one brakeline unstowed and went into a fairly fast spin. Reached up and released the other brake, grabbed rear risers and starting pulling as I now had about 17 line twists, started kicking out of them, glanced at my altimeter after kicking out of most of them and was at almost 2000 feet. This canopy ate up alot of altitude in a short period of time. I reached for the cutaway handle, as I still had a number of line twists, but spun out of the last few pretty quickly. The nice thing was, once the line twists where out, this canopy wanted to fly straight, The crummy thing was, I was unable to get back over the runway over 1000 feet, so had to land on the other side and walk back. Anyway, in comparison to my Triathlon, this canopy spun ALOT faster (had a brake come unstowed on my Tri, and it was just a lazy left hand turn). So watch your altitude when working on a problem!!
Blue Skies
karen



Albatross  (D 32026)

Apr 13, 2001, 10:11 PM
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Glad to hear that you came through alright. That should be the mantra of this little group WATCH YOUR ALTITUDE. Remember that in survival school (AFF) the JMs preached to be altitude aware. As "experienced" jumpers we need to remember the basics that have gotten us this far.

Blue Skys and Safe Landings
Albatross


Premier sangiro
Head Honcho
Apr 14, 2001, 12:48 PM
Post #3 of 16 (2188 views)
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Good for you! Interesting that you were able to kick out 17 line twists. I also jump a Safire. What was the canopy size and your wing loading?

Safe swoops
Sangiro


windchill

Apr 14, 2001, 3:40 PM
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MAn dont tell me you actually COuntEd them!!!?????
man you are one crazy mother crusher if you CoUnted how many twists you had !!AARRGGHH!!!
cheRRyPiEs!



unclbennie  (B License)

Apr 14, 2001, 4:19 PM
Post #5 of 16 (2173 views)
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It is a Safire 162 (odd size I know, but she had it made that way), Wing loading for me was barely 1:1, and yes I counted em, after I released the brake and started kicking out of them I counted how many times I went around, (watched altitude also, the last two where at 2000 feet, and I know I dumped at 4000 cause my brother wanted to wave off high so he could practice his track, and I figured I'd pull high since this wasn't my canopy. It was interesting!! Made me dizzy.
Blue skies and back to my trusty Triathlon!!
Karen



miked10270  (D 10270)

Apr 14, 2001, 10:13 PM
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HI there,

This reminds me of a discussion a while ago about "Pull-Height".

from the days of front mounted reserves, we've "pulled" at about 2,500ft, to be open by 2,000ft. this has never changed.

Yet, modern canopies seem to be designed to open "slow & smooth", particularly the "new" elliptical & semi-elliptical canopies. From the Stilletto through the safire & silhouette, 800ft from deployment to open seems to be the norm, not counting any problems / nuisances that occur.

As such deploying at 2,500ft - under canopy around 1700ft strikes me as "a bit tight" if you consider your decision height for reserve to be 1,500ft. Yet altis & audibles all still seem to be marked & set assuming a 2,500ft deployment height.

Perhaps it's time for a change of attitude to "the norm" for deployment height up to 3,000ft minimum.

Mike D10270.



Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Apr 15, 2001, 9:15 PM
Post #7 of 16 (2108 views)
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Re: Watch your altitude [In reply to] Can't Post

> Yet, modern canopies seem to be designed to open "slow & smooth", particularly the "new"
> elliptical & semi-elliptical canopies. From the Stilletto through the safire & silhouette, 800ft
> from deployment to open seems to be the norm, not counting any problems / nuisances that occur.

definitely true.

> Perhaps it's time for a change of attitude to "the norm" for deployment height up to 3,000ft minimum.

for some, yes. my safire opens reliably in 300 feet, my sabre sometimes takes 1000 feet to open (opposite of what most people experience.) i use my safire on big ways because i know i will sometimes be taking it to 2000 feet to get clear of someone else.

but that's up to each jumper. a canopy like my safire has no problem opening 2000-2500 feet. a snivelly stiletto? 3000 feet is probably a better choice.

-bill von


Pammi

Apr 16, 2001, 9:11 AM
Post #8 of 16 (2080 views)
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Good to know Karen! I have a Triathlon also and have absolutely loved it so far...she seems to just be so reliable! I don't know about yours, but I can't even stall mine...I've flown in a full-flare forever just trying it out up high. It's pretty cool.

I agree with what you're saying Mike...I will have to look for sure next time I jump, but she opens very slowly even tho I don't roll the nose at all...I definately would prefer to have plenty of time to deal with any issues after it does get open...or not! I've even wondered if I CAN pack a fast opening on it?

Pammi



"The question is not whether we will die, but how we will live."
-Joan Borysenko


Craig

Apr 16, 2001, 3:13 PM
Post #9 of 16 (2043 views)
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In reply to:
I've even wondered if I CAN pack a fast opening on it?
What are you doing with your nose after you release it from between your knees? You could try to spread the nose openings a bit across the canopy before you bring the tail around. I would ask your rigger before you try anything you havent tried before though just to be sure it is OK to do.

Craig



Pammi

Apr 17, 2001, 8:21 AM
Post #10 of 16 (1991 views)
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Hmm...nose between my knees....sorry, got distracted on another thought there for a moment Wink Just kidding :)

I haven't done anything with it really Craig...I just go ahead and wrap the tail around the whole thing. I'll have to have someone watch me pack next time and show them...see what they think about spreading it out a bit. I also tend to roll the tail a lot after I get it around to just kinda hold everything together really well and keep it neat. Maybe I'll try rolling it a bit less too...

It's really not been an issue since I open pretty high usually...but I'd like to know I can pack it for a faster opening if I wanted to....

Pammi

"The question is not whether we will die, but how we will live."
-Joan Borysenko


Kris  (D 26033)

Apr 17, 2001, 9:58 PM
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Bill, I understand completely about your Sabre. I have a Sabre 210 with a pocket slider and I also psycho-pack it. My average openings are in the 600-1000 foot range.

When I first had the pocket put on I let everyone know I was opening high and dumped at about 5500'. I put my hands on the risers but didn't try to spread them or slap them to make the slider come down. I just sat in the harness and countered any opening twitches with body-lean. I was under a fully open canopy at 4200'. Needless to say I had the rigger take the pocket in a bit to tune it. :)

I'll get real nervous if I find myself deploying it under 2500' someday. It's definitely not for hop n' pop's but I can speed it up enough if I have advance notice.

It's worth it to be able to walk normally on Monday after jumping all weekend but I think my chiropractor is a bit upset.




Pammi

Apr 23, 2001, 7:46 AM
Post #12 of 16 (1861 views)
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Hey Kris! Welcome to the forums...have you been lurking? Just wanted to say "hi" after realizing it was you. I'm sure you'll have some good input for us ...you've definately helped me out more then a time or two at the DZ!

See ya!
Pam

"The question is not whether we will die, but how we will live."
-Joan Borysenko


Kris  (D 26033)

Apr 23, 2001, 9:39 PM
Post #13 of 16 (1820 views)
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Hey Pam! I usually check out this website for the news & gear reviews and finally decided to check out the forums. There are a lot of really good discussions going on so I'm sure you'll see me around here from time to time.

Tell Merrick I said, "Hola" and I'll see you guys at the DZ next weekend. Hopefully the weather will cooperate and you can finally graduate. :) Then the real fun begins! <evil grin>



lummy  (A 40776)

Apr 24, 2001, 2:21 PM
Post #14 of 16 (1771 views)
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Question in regards to the brakes and kicking out of a twist. Aren't you supposed to leave the brakes stowed until your are out of the twists?



unclbennie  (B License)

Apr 24, 2001, 3:53 PM
Post #15 of 16 (1763 views)
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Lummy,
I had one brake unstowed on opening, which started the spin, I wasn't going to stop spinning until I fixed that, the spin caused the line twists, so I unstowed the other brake, kicked out of the line twists and had a good canopy over my head at that point. I just didn't like how quickly that canopy used up altitude. I had a brake unstowed on my triathlon last summer and it opened in a lazy left hand turn, never had line twists on that one. (and no I didn't pack either one of those)
Karen



lummy  (A 40776)

Apr 25, 2001, 10:57 AM
Post #16 of 16 (1721 views)
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Thanks for the reply unclbennie, I missed that part in your original post. Just trying to learn from everyone's experiences.


Gary




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