Forums: Skydiving: Gear and Rigging:
what size reserve?

 


hawkflight  (A 49289)

May 31, 2004, 10:16 PM
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what size reserve? Can't Post

hi what is a good size reserve for my first rig?....my instuctor told me what container and main I would want to get ,but he did'nt tell me what size reserve.....i weigh 170lbs...and he told me to get a 170 main......can you help or will i need to ask him?


BoostedXT  (A License)

May 31, 2004, 10:40 PM
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Re: [hawkflight] what size reserve? [In reply to] Can't Post

I would personally talk to you instructor he knows you best andhas seen you fly.

I went with the theory for my first rig, a 210 main, to get a 220 reserve. My thinking for a bigger reserve is beause if it is out the "shit has hit the fan" and I want more fabric over my head. The thought of jumping big main and small reserve didnt really make since to me.

something to think about.

joe


DancingFlame  (C 177476)

May 31, 2004, 11:36 PM
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Re: [hawkflight] what size reserve? [In reply to] Can't Post

First, ask instructor! He knows how you fly and we do not.
Then, get a 170 or larger reserve (well, PD163R will work too, it is a 175 actually).


diablopilot  (D License)

Jun 1, 2004, 12:04 AM
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Re: [DancingFlame] what size reserve? [In reply to] Can't Post

PD doesn't make a 163 R, it's a 160R and yes it does measure something ove 170 sq ft when measured by another manufacturers method. That however is a very silly way to choose your reserve size, espescialy if you're jumping a PD main.


Reserve size should be based on your weight, experience, manufacturers recomended loadings, field elevation at your home DZ, main canopy size, and the size of the crater you're willing to leave after your malfunction.


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Jun 1, 2004, 8:12 AM
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Re: [diablopilot] what size reserve? [In reply to] Can't Post

A simple rule of thumb for buying your first reserve is have at least one square foot of fabric for every pound you weigh naked - in your case - a 170 square foot reserve.
In other words - be cautious and - don't load your first reserve much more than one pound per square foot.


LJay  (A License)

Oct 16, 2013, 12:35 PM
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Re: [riggerrob] what size reserve? [In reply to] Can't Post

I keep also reading that you want a reserve big enough that you could hypothetically land unconscious. what is the WL for that roughly? I'm 180 lbs for example if that helps. obviously in a real world situation there's the issue of hitting trees buidlings etc, but I'm curious now, no flare, unconscious into a field, what are we talking roughly? also is it a bad idea to buy a much older, but unused reserve? they seem to be much cheaper Smile


JerryBaumchen  (D 1543)

Oct 16, 2013, 3:20 PM
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Re: [LJay] what size reserve? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi LJay,

Quote:
you want a reserve big enough that you could hypothetically land unconscious.

My thinking is that you want to land safely if unconscious; yes/no?

I fully accept that the definition of 'safe' is very subjective.

Some information for you.

PIA TS-135, Revision 1.4, dated April 22, 2010 is the current referenced standard for TSO C23f which went into effect on 21 Sep 12.

In TS-135 it says:

"4.3.9.1 RATE OF DESCENT TESTS (METHOD 2):
The rate of descent corrected to standard day sea level altitude conditions shall not exceed 5 ft/sec (1.5m/sec) at touchdown with appropriate control manipulations and the average rate of descent shall not exceed 24 ft/sec (7.3 m/s) in the unaltered post deployment configuration over a minimum interval of 100 ft (30.5m). These tests may be combined with other tests in this section.
NOTE: If the total velocity exceeds 36 ft/sec at maximum certified weight, the container or harness (if integral to the container) must be marked in an area readily visible to the user: For experienced parachutists only. The owner‟s manual contains experience requirements.

When the FAA issued TSO C23f they included an Appendix 1 which made some changes to TS-135 ( the FAA has full authority to do this ). One change was this:

"5. Page 11, disregard paragraph 4.3.9.1., Rate of Descent Tests (Method 2).

We omitted the Method (2) testing, for not providing an equivalent level of safety to current standard. This method is directed at high performance and experience parachutists in sport and skydiving activities. Novice or less experienced parachutists in emergency conditions due to incapacitation, panic, etc., may not be able to safely deploy and land.

We have to consider the safety of all jumpers, not just the highly skilled, highly experienced. It is argued that the risks the experienced jumpers are exposing themselves to, are mitigated by their skill and experience.

To allow the increased velocity my improve the safety of highly skilled, highly experienced jumpers, but it erodes the safety for the beginner, incapacitated, panicked, or a jumper who has gotten himself into a treacherous landing area.

We do not agree that a canopy manufacturer can demonstrate that a jumper can safely land with and appropriate control manipulation while performing a flare before touchdown. This approach relies on jumper's experience to mee the MOPS that parachutes have been certified to. This approach does not provide for an equivalent level of safety."

I hope that this helps you in making a decision.

I believe that the more informed we are, the safer we are.

JerryBaumchen


(This post was edited by JerryBaumchen on Oct 16, 2013, 5:27 PM)


LJay  (A License)

Oct 18, 2013, 12:13 PM
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Re: [JerryBaumchen] what size reserve? [In reply to] Can't Post

this gives a pretty solid idea as to what is deemed "safe" as you said empirically, however being the novice I am I don't have a good idea of the difference between 24 and 36 ft/sec and what it looks like whether I'm 2,000 ft up or even 100 feet off the ground. I'm curious of the smallest wing load or canopy size based off my weight (180lbs) that wouldn't be fatal without a flare I guess since as you said "safe" is a subjective term. and if anyone knows if it's a bad idea to buy a cheaper, older reserve thats still in good shape and hasn't been used


Southern_Man  (C License)

Oct 18, 2013, 12:44 PM
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Re: [LJay] what size reserve? [In reply to] Can't Post

LJay wrote:
I'm curious of the smallest wing load or canopy size based off my weight (180lbs) that wouldn't be fatal without a flare

There are too many variables to give a definite answer to your question.


mattjw916  (D License)

Oct 18, 2013, 12:51 PM
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Re: [LJay] what size reserve? [In reply to] Can't Post

Let's be honest here... it's rare that anyone lands unconscious under a reserve. The odds of landing in a nice freshly plowed wide open field, while unconscious, are even smaller if you jump anywhere near civilization. Trying to plan for obscure scenarios really isn't going to make you any safer (although you might feel that way which could lead to a false sense of security).

Don't over think this. Reserves are boats to begin with. At 180lbs you could reasonably use a PD218R or a PD193R. For reference, I am roughly the same size and I had a PD176R in my first rig. The odds of even seeing your reserve is pretty small to begin with if you maintain your gear, don't pack like an ass, pull when stable, and jump a lightly loaded main.

So ask yourself, in what scenario do you think an extra 20sqft of fabric is going to make a significant difference? What about 18 more will that work, how about 30, or why not 42 more?

JP's advice was the most comprehensive:

Quote:
Reserve size should be based on your weight, experience, manufacturers recomended loadings, field elevation at your home DZ, main canopy size, and the size of the crater you're willing to leave after your malfunction.


LJay  (A License)

Oct 18, 2013, 2:42 PM
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Re: [mattjw916] what size reserve? [In reply to] Can't Post

ha I definitely hope I don't see it anytime soon! and I hear ya thanks


RiggerLee

Oct 18, 2013, 2:56 PM
Post #12 of 13 (875 views)
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Re: [JerryBaumchen] what size reserve? [In reply to] Can't Post

Ok, you're going to have to clarify that for me. What exactly is the FAA annulling and what exactly does that leave as the standard in TS-135?

Lee


JerryBaumchen  (D 1543)

Oct 18, 2013, 3:12 PM
Post #13 of 13 (860 views)
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Re: [RiggerLee] what size reserve? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Lee,

Quote:
you're going to have to clarify that for me.

First, I do not and cannot speak for the FAA.

I only have my thoughts.

Method 2 is different from Method 1 ( wow, how about that ).

To see Method 1 go to the PIA website and look up TS-135, then you'll have everything.

IMO what the FAA is annulling is the total velocity ( excessive to the FAA IMO ) that was written into TS-135.

Simply, the FAA is saying that this total velocity, as allowed in TS-135, is not safe for the average jumper.

Just my thoughts,

JerryBaumchen



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