Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
2 Sided RSLs

 


Donna  (A 37295)

Apr 13, 2001, 10:14 AM
Post #1 of 15 (2020 views)
Shortcut
2 Sided RSLs Can't Post

I'm leaning towards buying a Racer for quite a few reasons. The one thing I am hesitant about it is the 2 sided RSL setup that they use. Jumpshack seems to strongly support the idea of it but everyone else I talk to says to stay away from it. They do say you can hook both snaps up to the same side and use it as a single sided one but that concerns me. I had planned on using an RSL but now I'm thinking if I go with Racer that I won't use one. What do all you other Racer owners do?



Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Apr 13, 2001, 11:58 AM
Post #2 of 15 (1996 views)
Shortcut
Re: 2 Sided RSLs [In reply to] Can't Post

there is one, and only one case that i know of where a two sided RSL can be a hindrance rather than a help. as far as i know, it has killed one person. here's the situation:

1. you open your main
2. your reserve opens (AAD misfire, accidental pull, whatever)
3. your reserve PC gets _in_front_of_ your main, and your reserve deploys in front (unusual)
4. you cut away

if those things happen, in that order, the RSL will collapse the reserve canopy as the main leaves, and you will be left with no working canopies. it is a rare problem. the benefit of the two sided RSL is that a broken riser is less of a big deal, since one broken riser will not deploy your reserve. whether you use the RSL on the racer, or get it modified for one-sided use, is up to you.

-bill von


Premier skybytch  (D License)

Apr 13, 2001, 1:27 PM
Post #3 of 15 (1986 views)
Shortcut
Re: 2 Sided RSLs [In reply to] Can't Post

You also need to choose your rigger very carefully if you go with a Racer with an RSL. Besides the fact that some riggers just can't make a Racer look good routing of the RSL lanyard is extremely critical.

I only know this because the first time my b/f's Racer Elite was packed up the rigger routed the lanyard UNDER the top reserve closing loop instead of ABOVE it like the manual said. Had he jumped it like that and needed to cutaway it was likely that the RSL would not have operated - the main risers would have been attached to the reserve pilot chute by the RSL lanyard, leaving a possibility of entanglement when he pulled the reserve handle. Luckily I was a riglet (rigger in training) at that point and I had already been messing with it before we took it in to be assembled so I knew as soon as I saw it that it was wrong. We removed the RSL from the rig after that and never reinstalled it. That was also the last time that rigger packed any of our gear.

pull and flare,
lisa


riggerrob  (D 14840)

May 14, 2001, 9:14 AM
Post #4 of 15 (1902 views)
Shortcut
Re: 2 Sided RSLs [In reply to] Can't Post

Ther is a second scenario where Racer-style RSLs have created problems. Back in the 1980s several manufacturers tried this RSL configuration on student rigs. In two cases, the student cutaway from the main, but the RSL hung up on the back of their helmet! One student hung from his RSL all the way to landing.
IMHO if you are going to use the RSL on a Racer, connect both Swedish snap shackles to the same main riser.



Grogs  (D 24265)

May 14, 2001, 12:29 PM
Post #5 of 15 (1887 views)
Shortcut
Re: 2 Sided RSLs [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't think I've ever looked at a racer rig up close, but isn't there a similar system on a Vector tandem rig? I know there is a small piece of rope (for lack of a better word) running from one the left set of risers to the right. I asked my rigger about it and he told me it was so that the RSL would still work on a cutaway even if the risers on the RSL side broke.



riggerrob  (D 14840)

May 18, 2001, 9:49 AM
Post #6 of 15 (1837 views)
Shortcut
Re: 2 Sided RSLs [In reply to] Can't Post

You are referring to the Collins lanyard on Vector Tandems. The Collins lanyard differs from Racer RSLs because the Vector has two separate lanyards.
Vector Tandems have the usual RSL mounted on the right shoulder. The Collins lanyard is attached to the right main riser and will pull the 3-Ring release cable for the left riser in the event that the right riser breaks. Broken main risers on tandems are usually caused by sloppy packing.
A Collins lanyard will not create the same sort of hang up as a Racer RSL because the Collins lanyard is only attached to one riser.



Donna  (A 37295)

May 18, 2001, 10:06 AM
Post #7 of 15 (1834 views)
Shortcut
Re: 2 Sided RSLs [In reply to] Can't Post

Now that sounds like a good set up. Are there any drawbacks? Why aren't others using that setup? Why is Vector onlu using it on their tandems and not their regular rigs?



Donna  (A 37295)

May 18, 2001, 10:07 AM
Post #8 of 15 (1834 views)
Shortcut
Re: 2 Sided RSLs [In reply to] Can't Post

Now that sounds like a good set up. Are there any drawbacks? Why aren't others using that setup? Why is Vector only using it on their tandems and not their regular rigs?



cameramonkey  (D 24467)

May 21, 2001, 10:55 PM
Post #9 of 15 (1787 views)
Shortcut
Re: 2 Sided RSLs [In reply to] Can't Post

I currently jump a racer, and had the same question for Jump shack. The official "fix" (straight from them) for those concerned about two sided risers was to attatch both clips to the left side.



Donna  (A 37295)

May 22, 2001, 8:45 AM
Post #10 of 15 (1769 views)
Shortcut
Re: 2 Sided RSLs [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes, They told me that, too. But I wanted to know if there were any drawbacks to that. Is the extra piece going to complicate things at all? Can it get tangled on anything? I wish they offered the option of a reular one-sided RSL.

Blue 1111,
D


cameramonkey  (D 24467)

May 22, 2001, 8:57 AM
Post #11 of 15 (1768 views)
Shortcut
Re: 2 Sided RSLs [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Yes, They told me that, too. But I wanted to know if there were any drawbacks to that. Is the extra piece going to complicate things at all? Can it get tangled on anything? I wish they offered the option of a reular one-sided RSL.
I never tried it since 90% of my jumps now are camera, but it doesnt appear that there would be any snag factor involved. try it on the ground and see what you think.






Donna  (A 37295)

May 22, 2001, 9:31 AM
Post #12 of 15 (1764 views)
Shortcut
Re: 2 Sided RSLs [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I never tried it since 90% of my jumps now are camera, but it doesnt appear that there would be any snag factor involved. try it on the ground and see what you think.
I would if I could but I don't own one yet. I was asking about all this to help me decide whether to go with a Racer or a Talon.

Blue 1111,
D


riggerrob  (D 14840)

May 22, 2001, 9:32 AM
Post #13 of 15 (1764 views)
Shortcut
Re: 2 Sided RSLs [In reply to] Can't Post

Collins lanyards are only found on Tandem Vectors because tandems are the only rigs that suffer from broken risers.
Back in 1992-93 we solved most of the problems with risers breaking on solo rigs. Now the only variable is sloppy packing.
Tandems on the other hand have risers that will mis-route themselves unless humans intervene. Because the large rings on the harness do not flex, the middle ring on the riser can easily flip - through the harness ring - all by itself. If the packer doesn't notice the mis-routed riser and the instructor fails to check his gear before donning it and he forgets to look over his gear during the airplane ride, then the mis-routed riser will break on opening. Gee! That gets back to sloppy packing and sloppy gear checks!
The reason that Collins lanyards are only installed on Tandem Vectors is because the Vector people were the first to address the problem and none of the other manufacturers have bothered to copy the Collins lanyard. I suspect there is a patent involved.



Donna  (A 37295)

May 22, 2001, 10:18 AM
Post #14 of 15 (1757 views)
Shortcut
Re: 2 Sided RSLs [In reply to] Can't Post

But didn't Talon recently have a few risers break because of a manufacturer defect (that has since been recalled and fixed)?

If solo rig risers don't break then it seems there wouldn't be any need to have the 2 sided RSL that Racer uses.

Thanks for explaining about the tandem risers. I hadn't known about any of that. It was very informative.

Blue 1111,
D


riggerrob  (D 14840)

May 23, 2001, 11:37 AM
Post #15 of 15 (1733 views)
Shortcut
Re: 2 Sided RSLs [In reply to] Can't Post

Just to clarify, the recent problem with Talon risers does not involve main risers breaking. Someone in production forgot to bartack (fancy stitch) the little white locking loops on the 3-Rings. And since the bartacks are hidden when the risers reach final inspection, the only way to be sure is to pull test them. Any rigger can do the pull test in a few minutes.




Forums : Skydiving : Safety and Training

 


Search for (options)