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Tandem Instructor Poll: Who flares?

 


Poll: Tandem Instructor Poll: Who flares?
Instructor only 32 / 43%
Instructor+Student 18 / 24%
Depends 24 / 32%
Student only! 1 / 1%
75 total votes
 
Premier cpoxon  (D 11665)
Moderator
May 19, 2004, 2:29 AM
Post #1 of 16 (2087 views)
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Tandem Instructor Poll: Who flares? Can't Post

Another one for your synopsis John? It's a bit of off-shot from the Landing Approach poll but worthy of a second one I feel. Tandem instructors only please.

It seems very popular in the States to have students assist with the landing flare, whereas conversely in the UK you hardly ever see it happen. Let's assume this is for "regular" tandems and not progression ones. I get the feeling that those who do allow it, like the help, whereas those who don't are afraid the student will hinder too much (despite techniques such as those mentioned by Chuck to prevent this).

I have just over a 100 tandems and it has been me alone who has flared all of those landings. My students are gripping the suit besides their knees lifting their feet above mine. Although I would consider letting someone I'd taken before who was considering progression to assist.


AggieDave  (D License)

May 19, 2004, 6:22 AM
Post #2 of 16 (2019 views)
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Re: [cpoxon] Tandem Instructor Poll: Who flares? [In reply to] Can't Post

I flare, unless it is a Cat A or a Cat B jump, then the student helps.

Basically, I'm not scared of having the student help, but if its not a working tandem, then I would rather just do it on my own.

I've never understood TMs that were so weak that they *had* to have the student help (I've met a few like that), I really think that they should be worried about that. You never know if you will have a student that can't help you.


nightjumps  (D 23385)

May 19, 2004, 6:41 AM
Post #3 of 16 (2004 views)
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Re: [cpoxon] Tandem Instructor Poll: Who flares? [In reply to] Can't Post

Vote: Depends

Like AD said, "I flare, unless it is a Cat A or a Cat B jump, then the student helps."


skydiverton  (D 123456789)

May 19, 2004, 6:56 AM
Post #4 of 16 (1990 views)
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Re: [cpoxon] Tandem Instructor Poll: Who flares? [In reply to] Can't Post

In Holland we do not have very few to none Cat A & B tandemjumps. Just the recreational jumps.
The passenger pays for an exciting experience.
A broken leg does not fit in that picture.
So the student keeps his/her legs up (needs hands to do that) and I will flare the parachute.

Student steering the canopy Ok, but I will land.
Even if the student wants to help, I will flare alone. For me it is not a subject open for discussion with the passenger.
I'm 70kg, but I do not need assistance to flare with a 100kg passenger (try the french BT80 canopy)


riggerrob  (D 14840)

May 19, 2004, 7:12 AM
Post #5 of 16 (1981 views)
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Re: [AggieDave] Tandem Instructor Poll: Who flares? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I flare, unless it is a Cat A or a Cat B jump, then the student helps.

Basically, I'm not scared of having the student help, but if its not a working tandem, then I would rather just do it on my own.

I've never understood TMs that were so weak that they *had* to have the student help (I've met a few like that), I really think that they should be worried about that. You never know if you will have a student that can't help you.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Hee! Hee!
Aggie Dave,
I am guessing that you have never jumped a Strong Enterprises Mighty Mak Master 520 with 11 cells, 4 steering toggles, Dacron lines and F-111 fabric on the eight jump of the day during a Southern California summer. Even the best of us asked students to help us flare those monsters.
These days I ask students to help flare our SET 400s, but that is more of a habit. I did a bazillion push-ups and chin-ups over the winter and am quite capable of flaring on my own.


AggieDave  (D License)

May 19, 2004, 7:19 AM
Post #6 of 16 (1976 views)
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Re: [riggerrob] Tandem Instructor Poll: Who flares? [In reply to] Can't Post

Nope, I wasn't "privlaged" enough to have had to jump the old gear.

EZ-384, Sigma 370s, Firebolt and Icarus are the only ones I've jumped.

I've still met folks that couldn't flare the EZ or the Sigma on their own, though.Unsure


Ron

May 19, 2004, 7:42 AM
Post #7 of 16 (1963 views)
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Re: [cpoxon] Tandem Instructor Poll: Who flares? [In reply to] Can't Post

I flair if its not a progressive Tandem program.

If it is a training tandem...They help.


sdctlc  (D 16437)

May 19, 2004, 8:18 AM
Post #8 of 16 (1944 views)
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Re: [cpoxon] Tandem Instructor Poll: Who flares? [In reply to] Can't Post

I have had a few times when I was letting the student/passenger help and they cause a problem buy stopping the flare short or flaring too hard and fast. Now I simply skip the problem and land by myself on ALL 1st tandems. I let them fly the canopy (i.e. let them work on their arms) up high and at about 1000' I tell them to let go and wave and yell at their friends on the ground...

If it is a progression student then I will work with them on flaring but for a 1st jump tandem I try and take as many variables out of the equation as possible. I figure my job is to let them have a fun safe time and get them on the ground safely!

Scott C.


crutch  (D 10182)

May 19, 2004, 9:15 AM
Post #9 of 16 (1920 views)
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Re: [cpoxon] Tandem Instructor Poll: Who flares? [In reply to] Can't Post

As with a lot of people here, it depends on the type of tandem we are doing.


diablopilot  (D License)

May 19, 2004, 10:01 AM
Post #10 of 16 (1903 views)
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Re: [AggieDave] Tandem Instructor Poll: Who flares? [In reply to] Can't Post

Ask the student if they want to help AND I feel they are going to be able to do the job.


It's their ride, I'll let them do as much or as little as they wish.


cliffharris  (D 25832)

May 19, 2004, 11:07 AM
Post #11 of 16 (1885 views)
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Re: [cpoxon] Tandem Instructor Poll: Who flares? [In reply to] Can't Post

I quit letting the passenger assist after I had one lock their arms. We had practiced 4 or 5 flares at altitude w/o any issues. I guess it was just good old fashioned panick. We biffed in pretty good but I was ok cuz I just surfed on in on em.


murps2000  (D 23114)

May 19, 2004, 3:00 PM
Post #12 of 16 (1846 views)
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Re: [cpoxon] Tandem Instructor Poll: Who flares? [In reply to] Can't Post

Like every tandem, I feel out the student. I let most every passenger fly the canopy at altitude. If they seem attentive, and quick to grasp canopy flight concepts, and they're not one of those that wants to hang on the brakes, maybe I'll let them help. When doing pactice flares for landing, with much emphasis being placed on smooth input, if they do well, I'll let them help fly it all the way down. But passengers like that are rare.


AggieDave  (D License)

May 19, 2004, 9:15 PM
Post #13 of 16 (1791 views)
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Re: [diablopilot] Tandem Instructor Poll: Who flares? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
It's their ride, I'll let them do as much or as little as they wish.

Sure, but if they have just demonstrated to me in freefall that they can't take simple direction and apply it correctly, then they're not getting near MY toggles. End of story.

Its their ride, but its my ass. If I'm hurt, then I can't jump, I can't work, I can't support myself. I'm not going to jepordize that so some should-still-have-been-a-whuffo can have more of a "ride."


bodypilot1  (D 16037)

May 19, 2004, 10:33 PM
Post #14 of 16 (1784 views)
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Re: [cpoxon] Tandem Instructor Poll: Who flares? [In reply to] Can't Post

I guess my answer is here for this questionSmile
-


riggerrob  (D 14840)

May 20, 2004, 7:19 AM
Post #15 of 16 (1757 views)
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Re: [bodypilot1] Tandem Instructor Poll: Who flares? [In reply to] Can't Post

Two additional reasons for asking student to help flare:

1 - Reduction in air sickness. If they know a turn is coming, fewer of them get scared, nauseous, lose their lunch, etc.

2 - Reduction in dragging. On windy days - if they hold their hands all the way down AFTER landing, I can reach up, grab an extra yard/meter of steering line and collapse the canopy quicker than any catcher.


pajarito  (D 13125)

May 21, 2004, 6:32 PM
Post #16 of 16 (1675 views)
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Re: [cpoxon] Tandem Instructor Poll: Who flares? [In reply to] Can't Post

I typically like to control the flare during landing myself and don't bring it up to the student. Up in the air, I let the student fly around but tell them to give up the toggles at around 1000ft. That is, unless they show an interest in progressing in the sport and aren't there just to make one jump. In that case, I try and give them as much experience as possible and I let them assist in the landing flare. They've got to show me some kind of attentiveness and capability of listening, though, prior to the jump. If they act like an idiot from the start, they're not getting to control any part of my landing.



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