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KrisFlyZ
Jumps
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In sport
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: 648
: C 34590
: 5 years
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May 13, 2004, 9:00 PM
Post #1 of 45
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Registered: Nov 3, 2003
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Tracking : True or false?
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I once heard in a conversation at the DZ that the best trackers get a glide ratio of 0.6 to 1. Is this true ?
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quade
Moderator
United States
Jumps
License
In sport
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: 2900
: D 22635
: 10 years
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May 13, 2004, 9:04 PM
Post #2 of 45
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Re: [KrisFlyZ] Tracking : True or false?
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A very good tracker wearing a "normal" RW suit with booties can -maybe- get in the neighborhood of 1:1.
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winsor
United States
Jumps
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: 2500
: D 13715
: 36 years
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May 13, 2004, 11:16 PM
Post #4 of 45
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Re: [relyon] Tracking : True or false?
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1:1 is consistent with what I've seen of the Golden Knights tracking demonstrations. IIRC it is called a "diamond track," and results in two smoke trails crossing at about a right angle, which indicates 1:1 in an established track for both jumpers.
Blue skies,
Winsor
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grega
Slovenia
Jumps
License
In sport
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: 1100
: D 100020
: 5 years
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May 14, 2004, 12:06 AM
Post #5 of 45
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Registered: Apr 18, 2002
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Re: [winsor] Tracking : True or false?
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Cough, cough, cough....
huh 1:1 in tracking, that is something i'd like to see.
Well my canopy has a glide ratio of 2.2:1. wing suit with robert p. inside (i think he knows how to track ) has a glide ratio of 1.3:1 with his newest wingsuit.
Do you really think that golden nights track 1:1 with only booties on their legs???
I think that even 0.6:1 is realllyyyy gooood!
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jmidgley
United Kingdom
Jumps
License
In sport
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: 520
: C 103474
: 7 years
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May 14, 2004, 1:37 AM
Post #7 of 45
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Registered: Oct 18, 2002
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Re: [KrisFlyZ] Tracking : True or false?
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If I might...
At good (i.e. low) glide angles, such as attained by high performance gliders, the hypotenuse can be used as a proxy for the adjacent side, without introducing much error - in other words the aircraft's airspeed can be used as a proxy for the distance covered horizontally (assuming still air).
At the atrocious glide angles attained by skydiving canopies and worse, by human beans, this is no longer the case - you have to work with the actual distance covered horizontally and the sink rate. At a 'real' glide angle of 1:1 (45deg) if you were falling at, say, 80mph (and achieving a horizontal speed of 80mph) your airspeed would be 113mph-ish.
HTH, HAND.
John
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Hooknswoop
United States
Jumps
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In sport
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: 3501
:
: 8 years
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May 14, 2004, 6:06 AM
Post #10 of 45
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Re: [KrisFlyZ] Tracking : True or false?
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Jump run was 1/2 mile west of the DZ and into the wind (South), I opened 2 miles to the East of the DZ. I drove the road from where I opened to the edge of the DZ and added 1/2 mile. The pilot used GPS to fly jumprun 1/2 mile to the West and maintain a straight jumprun to keep the competion fair (it was a whole otter load). Pro-Track for exit, opening altitudes and free-fall speeds.
I looked it up on Jump-Track
Exit:13,500
Deploy:2,100
Free-fall time: 102 sec
By my math that equals 76 mph avg speed and a 1.158:1 Glide ratio.
Derek
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quade
Moderator
United States
Jumps
License
In sport
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: 2900
: D 22635
: 10 years
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May 14, 2004, 9:27 AM
Post #13 of 45
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Registered: Dec 10, 1999
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Re: [The111] Tracking : True or false?
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I think maybe my scarcasim was lost in the internet somewhere.
My point is that I think perhaps some folks don't knnow how to calculate glide ratios correctly. Either that or they're just coming up with the wrong answers.
BTW, scarcasim is like sarcasim, it's just supposed to leave a mark.
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The111
United States
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: 945
: D 29246
: 6 years
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May 14, 2004, 9:44 AM
Post #14 of 45
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Registered: Jul 17, 2003
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Re: [quade] Tracking : True or false?
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Yes I did get your point. :) But it is also true that many people think Spectres have crappy glide ratios, hence your statement "and they (many people) say..."
/nursing my sarcasm wounds 
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ManBird
United States
Jumps
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In sport
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: 927
: D 28001
: 4 years
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May 14, 2004, 10:48 AM
Post #17 of 45
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Registered: Oct 24, 2002
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Re: [kallend] Tracking : True or false?
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I have 60 - 70 jumps in my BirdMan Pantz (the BASE version). I have an average fall rate of about 76 MPH and a forward speed of about 85MPH (no wind) when going for "float" -- 1.12:1. When going for distance, my fall rate is about 80MPH and my forward speed is about 90MPH -- 1.13:1. With wind assistance, the glide ratio goes up quite a bit.
I also have just under 400 wingsuit flights. In a Skyflyer 3, glide ratios of greater than 2:1 are commonplace. Many are doing over 2.3:1, and some are over 2.5:1. That's in no wind. With wind assistance, you're looking at upwards of near 4:1.
In a recent video, I covered 1900' horizontally in a 1700' freefall (including deployment) in 15 seconds in BirdMan Pantz. That was a glide ratio of 1.12:1, a fall rate of 77MPH, and a forward speed of 86MPH. In a normal freefly suit, my forward speed is about the same, but my fall rate is usually mid-80s to low-90s -- the glide is still around 1:1. There are at least a few supertrackers (to whom I hail) who're getting over 1.2:1 in a just a RW suit.
Data sources for the above are ProTrack, GPS, and video.
Talk to manufacturers of high performance canopies that also really understand wingsuits, and they'll tell you that you get a better glide from a wingsuit than a small canopy. This is something I've witnessed on many occassions, as well.
In other words, glide ratios greater than or equal to 1:1 are very common with just about any apparel configuration... except naked or shorts/t-shirt -- where 0.7:1 is pretty damn good.
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robibird
Croatia
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: 6600
: D 404
: 28 years
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May 14, 2004, 12:18 PM
Post #18 of 45
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Registered: May 23, 2003
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Re: [grega] Tracking : True or false?
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ha, haa, ha... Grega,
I would trash all my suits and will start sale newspapers at the corrner if my ws would fly at 1:1.3
To get the 2.5 glide is very possible ( many of good WS flyers have that glide nowdays)
Also, the results from some big walls BASE tracking obviously shows that 1:1 tracking happening too.
3:1 is also very easy to get , just pitch down , get the speed and then flare out. It will not last for long but it is nice feeling :))
R
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TribalTalon
Jumps
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In sport
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: 130
: A 44635
: 1 years
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May 15, 2004, 10:25 AM
Post #20 of 45
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Registered: Nov 3, 2003
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Re: [srg] Tracking : True or false?
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i agree with PD.. i have a spectre 170 and i have flown a sabre2 170 and i definitely feel the spectre has a flatter glide path.
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grega
Slovenia
Jumps
License
In sport
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: 1100
: D 100020
: 5 years
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May 17, 2004, 1:51 AM
Post #21 of 45
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Registered: Apr 18, 2002
Posts: 1066
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OK, OK, i guess i messed up some numbers...  
i'll do a little more research.
Oh btw i once had a glide ratio of 1:1, not falling but climbing !!! all you have to do is make a sharp turn with your canopy, and then brake hard (don't stall it). you'll have a glide ratio of 1:1 climbing. it won't last long but it's a good feeling gaining height for a few seconds.. 
What i ment with glide ratio is how far is the most you can get.
by glide ratio 1:1 if you jump from 4000m and open at 1000m, that's 3000m of freefall. with glide ratio of 1:1 for 3000m of freefall you'll cover 3000m horizontaly. so you can jump out of airpline 3000m away (horizontaly) and you'll open above the airport (in no wind of course) at glide ratio 1:2 you can jump 6000m away. at 3:1 9000m away.
Not saying it's not true just asking... is it ??
I know that with my canopy opened at 800m if i'm 2000m away i'll barely get to the dz in no wind. with about 25% of brakes for the best glide ratio of my canopy. So yes i guess my canopies best glide ratio is somewhere around 2.2 and i'm flying cobalt comp. loaded 1.7
And spectres almost definitely have better glide ratio. My canopy is more designed for swooping than for gliding...
i'm not saying that birdman suits don't have 2.5:1 or 3:0 glide ratio, I don't know, i've never flown one. it just seems a loooot comparing to any canopy and surface the canopy has comparing to wingsuits surface... 
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kallend
United States
Jumps
License
In sport
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: 2400
: D 23151
: 13 years
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May 17, 2004, 4:59 AM
Post #22 of 45
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Registered: Feb 4, 2002
Posts: 33578
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Re: [grega] Tracking : True or false?
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OK, OK, i guess i messed up some numbers... i'll do a little more research. Oh btw i once had a glide ratio of 1:1, not falling but climbing !!! all you have to do is make a sharp turn with your canopy, and then brake hard (don't stall it). you'll have a glide ratio of 1:1 climbing. it won't last long but it's a good feeling gaining height for a few seconds.. What i ment with glide ratio is how far is the most you can get. by glide ratio 1:1 if you jump from 4000m and open at 1000m, that's 3000m of freefall. with glide ratio of 1:1 for 3000m of freefall you'll cover 3000m horizontaly. so you can jump out of airpline 3000m away (horizontaly) and you'll open above the airport (in no wind of course) at glide ratio 1:2 you can jump 6000m away. at 3:1 9000m away. Not saying it's not true just asking... is it ?? I know that with my canopy opened at 800m if i'm 2000m away i'll barely get to the dz in no wind. with about 25% of brakes for the best glide ratio of my canopy. So yes i guess my canopies best glide ratio is somewhere around 2.2 and i'm flying cobalt comp. loaded 1.7 And spectres almost definitely have better glide ratio. My canopy is more designed for swooping than for gliding... i'm not saying that birdman suits don't have 2.5:1 or 3:0 glide ratio, I don't know, i've never flown one. it just seems a loooot comparing to any canopy and surface the canopy has comparing to wingsuits surface...
Glide ratio is determined by the lift/drag ratio, not the surface area.
Descent rate depends strongly on surface area.
I think you have confused the two concepts.
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