Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Swooping and Canopy Control:
Swooping in turbulence - toggles or risers?



Mar 10, 2002, 12:41 PM
Post #1 of 5 (1136 views)
Swooping in turbulence - toggles or risers? Can't Post

Here's a question for the pros. (for info, I have 670 jumps, 350ish swoops or attempts at loadings 1.4-1.8).

I generally front riser my final turn (normally just 90 degrees or a little more)- but when the wind is turbulent, pulling the front riser makes the canopy buck or judder. (This is not a canopy issue - I've tried Sabre, Spectre, Safire, now Cobalt, and my brake lines are plenty long enough not to deflect the tail.) If it's turbulent, any canopy, at least at the loadings I'm using, seems to react badly to front risers.

I'm talking mainly about turbulence due to the wind coming over the terrain, which may not be obvious high up. So I tend to get the feel of the turbulence on my cross-wind leg, then make a decision. If it's bumpy, I will toggle-turn, safe in the knowledge that I was high enough for a front riser turn. If it's smooth, I'll do the preferred front-riser turn, and generally get a better swoop as a result. Occasionally, I'll start the riser turn, decide it doesn't feel stable, and finish the turn with a toggle.

Question: Am I developing a bad habit here? If so what advice do experienced swoopers have on swooping in turbulent air?

Thanks if you can help.


prost  (D 24959)

Mar 10, 2002, 5:47 PM
Post #2 of 5 (1088 views)
Re: Swooping in turbulence - toggles or risers? [In reply to] Can't Post

I absolutly love to swoop. A lot of the time it is my main motovation for getting on the plane. However, there is a time to just not swoop. Turbulent days are one of those times. Remember, as long as you don't break yourself, you have the rest of your life to swoop.


Premier skymonkeyone  (D 12501)

Mar 11, 2002, 7:12 AM
Post #3 of 5 (1052 views)
Re: Swooping in turbulence - toggles or risers? [In reply to] Can't Post

That was a good response. I am a very unhappy camper in turbulence, therefore I will generally jump the larger of my mains and not worry too much about my surf. If it's really bumpy I won't even skydive. I am jumping way too small of a parachute to get caught at 25 to 50 feet in a downdraft and I KNOW it from past experience, so I would just as soon not jump either of my swoop rigs on those days.


My webpage HERE

diverds  (D 17797)

Mar 11, 2002, 7:20 AM
Post #4 of 5 (1050 views)
Re: Swooping in turbulence - toggles or risers? [In reply to] Can't Post

I agree with the above posts. There is a time to say "lets not swoop today" and there is a time to say "lets not jump today". Not knowing when to do so can be hazerdous to your health.


alan  (D 17868)

Mar 13, 2002, 3:38 PM
Post #5 of 5 (966 views)
Re: Swooping in turbulence - toggles or risers? [In reply to] Can't Post

Good replies here. When you pull the front riser, you are changing both the trim angle and angle of attack on at least a portion of the airfoil and the wing itself, for some period of time. And, to some extent, you are also changing the airfoil itself. A lot of things are happening that interact with each other. The turbulence creates varying pressures on the canopy, which wants to seek and maintain its' neutral state. This is felt as buffeting. You can also be flirting with getting the front of the airfoil into or near a negative angle of attack. That can cause a collapse or partial collapse. Buffeting is warning signal. Also, as the AOA changes, the stagnation point moves relative to the nose opening and this changes the pressurization fo the canopy. When the canopy loses pressure, it changes shape and loses efficiency. You can also feel this. Bottom line, very very careful in turbulence. Use caution and good judgement. Airspeed and pressurization are your friends in turbulence as long as the flight path of the canopy is more along the ground than at it.


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