Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Canopy Relative Work:
Soft Openings

 

First page Previous page 1 2 Next page Last page  View All

boinky  (B License)

Apr 12, 2004, 11:24 AM
Post #1 of 32 (3691 views)
Shortcut
Soft Openings Can't Post

Hi All.

I need some experienced CRWdog advice. I have a brand new Lightning 126 with a tailpocket. Approximately 30 jumps on it. The openings are, shall we say, brisk, harsh, bone rattling? I believe you get the idea. Pirate

I'm looking for as many different options as possible to help soften the openings a tiny bit. I am not willing to put it in a bag, but I am open to trying any other reasonable suggestions.

I will be at the CRW Big Way camp this weekend in Lake Wales. Feel free to post ideas here or offer ideas while we are there.

Thanks.

Nina Tharp


chuckbrown  (D 19538)

Apr 12, 2004, 11:36 AM
Post #2 of 32 (3651 views)
Shortcut
Re: [boinky] Soft Openings [In reply to] Can't Post

Once you've laid the tail pocket into the container with the nose facing up, try rolling the 3 end cells on each side 6-7 times (tightly). Or more if you want. Also don't expose the center cell. Tuck it in between the rolls of the end cells. Then roll the tail tightly so that only the center cell is showing on the cocoon. Then stuff it in the container. I roll my end cells 3 times for Cessna loads, but 6 or more times for turbine loads. It seems to help. Have fun in Lake Wales. Wish I were going.


DJL  (C License)

Apr 12, 2004, 12:22 PM
Post #3 of 32 (3643 views)
Shortcut
Re: [boinky] Soft Openings [In reply to] Can't Post

packing with unstowed brakes

I haven't tried this, just regurgitating what was written before.


remko  (C 49236)

Apr 12, 2004, 12:47 PM
Post #4 of 32 (3637 views)
Shortcut
Re: [boinky] Soft Openings [In reply to] Can't Post

My softest opening, much like a "sniveling stiletto", was with brakes unstowed on a 126, loaded about 1.45. Propacked nicely flaked all the way to the tail, spider tucked straight down. End cells rolled 3 times _outward_, exposing the center cell. Tail rolled and then free packed (tail pocket). The opening was on heading but no statistics on this yet. I know people who haven't stowed brakes for years ;-)

I have just recently experimented with this because I never had any problems with hard openings until I had to borrow a 143 for the WR last november. Surprisingly enough this D-bagged canopy gave me slammers! Rolling the nose inward and tucking it in the center cell did nothing but throwing me off heading. A rigger advised me to roll the tail really tight around the lines (no tail pocket). This helped.

Hint: `Your search for hard opening returned 16 results'.

Gr,
Remko


crwmike  (D 6139)

Apr 12, 2004, 4:14 PM
Post #5 of 32 (3617 views)
Shortcut
Re: [boinky] Soft Openings [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Hi All.

I need some experienced CRWdog advice. I have a brand new Lightning 126 with a tailpocket. Approximately 30 jumps on it. The openings are, shall we say, brisk, harsh, bone rattling? I believe you get the idea. Pirate

I'm looking for as many different options as possible to help soften the openings a tiny bit. I am not willing to put it in a bag, but I am open to trying any other reasonable suggestions.

I will be at the CRW Big Way camp this weekend in Lake Wales. Feel free to post ideas here or offer ideas while we are there.

Thanks.

Nina Tharp


In a nursing forum, a student nurse who had just finished her first clinical rotations asked, "what can I do to mask the smell"? The response of the experienced nurses ..."what smell?"

I expect my Lightning to slam open. I cowboy the fuck up, make sure my body position is good (upright) to take the opening shock on my leg straps rather than my chest strap, and toss the pilot chute ...instant canopy!

Having said that, I had one (my 193) that more often than not ...was burtal. Tried rolling all sorts of shit with varying degrees of success. After a few dozen jumps, it kind of mellowed out.

Blue Thighs,

Michael


boinky  (B License)

Apr 12, 2004, 6:27 PM
Post #6 of 32 (3601 views)
Shortcut
Re: [crwmike] Soft Openings [In reply to] Can't Post

I love you, Michael. Wink Only you could describe things so vividly.

It's not the "blue thighs" that I am concerned about. There's not a time that I have jumped that I haven't ended up with a bruise somewhere.

It is the jarring of the brain that I worry about. On one of my openings this past weekend, my head was still swimming after I was on the ground. With my limited talent, I need as much of my wits about me as possible. I'm sure the other jumpers in the formation will appreciate it.

I realize that I need an "instant canopy" in this discipline....I'd just like it to happen a little softer.

See you in Lake Wales.

Nina


jetcrw  (D 17909)

Apr 12, 2004, 8:09 PM
Post #7 of 32 (3592 views)
Shortcut
Re: [boinky] Soft Openings [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks Mike! Hi Nina, it's Jeni. I used to roll the nose. Now, I just roll the tail very tightly. I also make sure that the pilot knows that there is a CRW pass (they sometimes forget). A good stable body position helps. If the pilot doesn't give a cut, remind them.( Admittedly, the pilot may be busy with managing traffic or communications.) I also tend to pull high, and not take a long delay. See you at Lake Wales.


Premier faulknerwn  (D 17441)
Moderator
Apr 12, 2004, 8:14 PM
Post #8 of 32 (3589 views)
Shortcut
Re: [DJL] Soft Openings [In reply to] Can't Post


This is what I've been trying recently (well my last 4 Lightning jumps). 3 were reasonably soft - partly because the slider stuck halfway up the lines, the 4th was of normal "harness." Its worth a shot...

W


boinky  (B License)

Apr 12, 2004, 9:05 PM
Post #9 of 32 (3584 views)
Shortcut
Re: [jetcrw] Soft Openings [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks Jeni.

Now we all know who's PUP I am , so no names are necessary.Cool I'm pretty sure he always has the pilot cut the engines before our exit. It has been mentioned to me that part of my hard openings could be caused because we use a King Air at our DZ. I don't think he is having the same problems as I am, though, so I don't know how valid an argument this is.

My body position on exit is good and I pull almost immediately out of the door.

I was reading some of the old postings, as was suggested by doing a search on "hard openings." There was one thread that talked about large pilot chutes causing issues. My pilot chute is fairly large, especially for the size of the canopy I am using. It is the same size as the PC's that the men's 8-way team uses, though....and I've heard that some of them use the same size canopy as me.

I will try the rolling the nose and end cell suggestions. I'll wait 'til I hear more on the opinions of the unstowed brakes before I try that, though. Color me chicken. Sly

Thanks bunches,
Nina


DJL  (C License)

Apr 13, 2004, 4:02 PM
Post #10 of 32 (3532 views)
Shortcut
Re: [boinky] Soft Openings [In reply to] Can't Post

Has anyone done any experimenting with the tension of rubberband stows on the tail pocket? I imagine, like a D-bag deployment, that the closer to line stretch you are before the cells begin to inflate the softer the opening. Any experiments with something like sleeves instead of rubber bands? Single vs. double stowing the bands?


relyon  (D 18973)

Apr 13, 2004, 4:41 PM
Post #11 of 32 (3527 views)
Shortcut
Re: [DJL] Soft Openings [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Has anyone done any experimenting with the tension of rubberband stows on the tail pocket? I imagine, like a D-bag deployment, that the closer to line stretch you are before the cells begin to inflate the softer the opening. Any experiments with something like sleeves instead of rubber bands? Single vs. double stowing the bands?

I recently began using only the locking stow on my tail pocket and haven't noticed any difference in deployment. I'm going to have some velcro sewn on the trailing edge of the pocket to manage the lines a little better when putting the canopy in the container. Right now they have a tendency to slip out if I don't hold them.

On the subject of packing with the brakes unstowed, I know a half dozen people who have done this with good success. I've done it a few times myself with similar results. Read what Russ Pinney had to say about it here.

Bob


jetcrw  (D 17909)

Apr 13, 2004, 6:05 PM
Post #12 of 32 (3520 views)
Shortcut
Re: [relyon] Soft Openings [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for Russ's post Bob. Nina, I have found that King Airs are faster than otters on jump run. Some people at Perris put a rubber band on their C line and attach it to the slider. I have not tried that.


bodypilot90  (D 24249)

Apr 14, 2004, 12:42 AM
Post #13 of 32 (3502 views)
Shortcut
Re: [boinky] Soft Openings [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
my head was still swimming after I was on the ground

now Nina, didn't you tell me you've always felt like that? Tongue


boinky  (B License)

Apr 14, 2004, 4:56 AM
Post #14 of 32 (3497 views)
Shortcut
Re: [bodypilot90] Soft Openings [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
my head was still swimming after I was on the ground
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
now Nina, didn't you tell me you've always felt like that?
******************************************

Bill, Bill, Bill.....there are certain things that a lady never tells and a gentleman never repeats.Wink We wouldn't want to get anyone excited here, now would we? I don't even want to imagine the sexual implications running through some people's minds right about now.

My excitement is most definitely caused by the thrill of doing CRW...that' all. Yup...that's my story and I'm sticking to it. Blush
Nina


boinky  (B License)

Apr 14, 2004, 5:02 AM
Post #15 of 32 (3496 views)
Shortcut
Re: [relyon] Soft Openings [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks Bob, Russ and Wendy for the brake unstowed suggestions.

I'll try this. I can see having problems forcing myself NOT to set the brakes though. Just doesn't seem normal. Oh wait, I'm doing CRW, people don't think I'm normal anyway, do they?

Has anyone seen any heading or line twist issues from doing this? How much extra altitude do you loose from the slower opening? How much slower is it, anyway? I am looking for minimal softening...not maximum snivel.

Nina


chuckbrown  (D 19538)

Apr 14, 2004, 6:46 AM
Post #16 of 32 (3489 views)
Shortcut
Re: [jetcrw] Soft Openings [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Some people at Perris put a rubber band on their C line and attach it to the slider.

I've tried this but couldn't tell if it slowed the opening down. I stopped doing it when I noticed some damage to my slider, but I know people that do this regularly with no problems.


relyon  (D 18973)

Apr 14, 2004, 8:06 AM
Post #17 of 32 (3483 views)
Shortcut
Re: [boinky] Soft Openings [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I'll try this. I can see having problems forcing myself NOT to set the brakes though. Just doesn't seem normal. Oh wait, I'm doing CRW, people don't think I'm normal anyway, do they?

The packing seems a bit wierd when you reach for the tail and it's on the ground. Make sure to gather the excess above the slider so there's nothing loose when stowing the lines.

If you think stateside CRW isn't normal, ask Kevin Ingley about the Russians: 6" risers and toggles velcroed to the ring covers, just to name two. They make the rest of us look like we go strictly by the book. Nothing really wrong any of it, just different. IIRC, it was the Russians who made popular leaving the brakes unstowed.

In reply to:
Has anyone seen any heading or line twist issues from doing this? How much extra altitude do you loose from the slower opening? How much slower is it, anyway? I am looking for minimal softening...not maximum snivel.

No more heading or line twist issues than from any other pack job and perhaps less. In fact, there's a opportunity to correct an off heading with the first brake input(s). The additional altitude loss is minimal and would hardly be called a snivel by freefall standards. I'll guess 50-75' maximum, depending on how quickly you grab the toggles and make the initial input. Don't be in too much of a hurry and remember, it's still a Lightning: it will open even if you do nothing.

Disclaimer: I've not tried this with anything other than a Lightning. YMMV.

Hope this helps,

Bob

PS - As far Bill's comment and implications go, I think of this: What happens at <your favorite DZ> ... stays at <your favorite DZ>. Wink


boinky  (B License)

Apr 14, 2004, 9:30 AM
Post #18 of 32 (3474 views)
Shortcut
Re: [relyon] Soft Openings [In reply to] Can't Post

Since I'm already packed for the camp in Lake Wales the normal way, and they fly an Otter, I'm gonna' jump this pack job before I change anything. This way, I can see if there is any truth to the plane differences opinion.

If I'm still seeing stars on the ground, then I know there are some competent CRWdogs who will be there who can help me try some of these other ideas.

In reply to:
The packing seems a bit wierd when you reach for the tail and it's on the ground.

HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA. ROFLMAO. Bob, you've obviously not met me yet. As short as I am, the tail is ALWAYS on the ground, no matter what size canopy I pack or how I pack it. Wink

By the way, rest assured, I would never try this with another canopy. Of course, I rarely do RW, but when I do, the openings are so much softer than my Lightning, that it actually makes me appreciate them more. No changes in packing needed there.

Speaking of freefallers, there have been a few times I've done hop-n-pops with my Lightning at my DZ and they are still in the plane watching when I exit. When they get down, they come up to me and ask me if my openings are always like that. No matter how hard I might have been slammed upon opening, I innocently look at them and ask, "Like What?" Seeing as they already think I'm insane for going to the dark side, I can't reinforce their opinions and let 'em think CRW has any bad points, now can I?

Thanks,
Nina


relyon  (D 18973)

Apr 14, 2004, 10:05 AM
Post #19 of 32 (3470 views)
Shortcut
Re: [boinky] Soft Openings [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA. ROFLMAO. Bob, you've obviously not met me yet. As short as I am, the tail is ALWAYS on the ground, no matter what size canopy I pack or how I pack it. Wink

Doh! Wasn't thinking there. Crazy Actually, we did meet briefly at the world record. I'll bet you can stand in an Otter without stooping. Have a great time in Lake Wales!

Bob


boinky  (B License)

Apr 14, 2004, 12:19 PM
Post #20 of 32 (3456 views)
Shortcut
Re: [relyon] Soft Openings [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Doh! Wasn't thinking there. Actually, we did meet briefly at the world record. I'll bet you can stand in an Otter without stooping. Have a great time in Lake Wales!

Being allowed to be there for the world record was absolutely one of the greatest times I've ever had!

I'll let you know about the other two things. I'll bet I can and I hope I will.

Nina


bodypilot90  (D 24249)

Apr 14, 2004, 12:25 PM
Post #21 of 32 (3454 views)
Shortcut
Re: [relyon] Soft Openings [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Doh! Wasn't thinking there. Actually, we did meet briefly at the world record. I'll bet you can stand in an Otter without stooping. Have a great time in Lake Wales!

she can standup in a 206 Cool I think she needs a stool to stand on to pack LOL maybe that would help!! (running for cover)


Premier faulknerwn  (D 17441)
Moderator
Apr 14, 2004, 12:35 PM
Post #22 of 32 (3453 views)
Shortcut
Re: [relyon] Soft Openings [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I'll bet you can stand in an Otter without stooping. Have a great time in Lake Wales!

Bob

An Otter? Heck! I stand up and walk out of our C182!

W


boinky  (B License)

Apr 14, 2004, 4:12 PM
Post #23 of 32 (3437 views)
Shortcut
Re: [bodypilot90] Soft Openings [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
she can standup in a 206 I think she needs a stool to stand on to pack LOL maybe that would help!! (running for cover)
__________________________________________________
Bill, "One of these days. One of these days...POW, Right in the kisser!!! Pirate


In reply to:
An Otter? Heck! I stand up and walk out of our C182!

W

Not sure exactly what a C182 is, but I'm thinking it's in the Cessna line. And since I have a serious aversion to those, we're gonna' let Wendy win the shortest person competition!! Laugh

Nina


BillyVance  (D 18895)

Apr 14, 2004, 10:14 PM
Post #24 of 32 (3419 views)
Shortcut
Re: [boinky] Soft Openings [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
she can standup in a 206 I think she needs a stool to stand on to pack LOL maybe that would help!! (running for cover)
__________________________________________________
Bill, "One of these days. One of these days...POW, Right in the kisser!!! Pirate

I think Ralph Kramden had it worded like this "One of these days, Alice, POW! To the moon!!" Tongue

Have a great time and hope you get the opening issues worked out. Of course, the more you jump the new canopy the better it behaves, but you can't really drape it over your knees and spank it for all its worth when it slams you hard enough to loosen your teeth, eh? Laugh

Blue Skies
Billy


boinky  (B License)

Apr 15, 2004, 3:20 AM
Post #25 of 32 (3410 views)
Shortcut
Re: [BillyVance] Soft Openings [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I think Ralph Kramden had it worded like this "One of these days, Alice, POW! To the moon!!"

Shhh.....we're using it my way for effect. I don't want to send anyone to the moon. I can't jump with them there, now can I? They CAN still jump if they have a busted lip, though. Wink

In reply to:
but you can't really drape it over your knees and spank it for all its worth when it slams you hard enough to loosen your teeth, eh?


I can't? Durn...Let me re-think what I am going to do to Bill then. Angelic

Nina


First page Previous page 1 2 Next page Last page  View All

Forums : Skydiving Disciplines : Canopy Relative Work

 


Search for (options)