Forums: Skydiving: Gear and Rigging:
Vigil Ground Misfire

 

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chutingstar  (D 19956)

Apr 5, 2004, 8:03 PM
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Vigil Ground Misfire Can't Post

Just an FYI for those installing Vigils, interested in buying Vigils or using Vigils.

Read this week's Rigger "Rant and Rave" at this link:

http://www.chutingstar.com/riggerrantandrave.html

Mike


AggieDave  (D License)

Apr 5, 2004, 9:10 PM
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Re: [chutingstar] Vigil Ground Misfire [In reply to] Can't Post

Stuff like this is why I'm sticking with a Cypres for atleast a few more years. Others can find out all the problems with the new "last chance" type gear with their own money and lives. The cypres has one hell of a track record and has been around long enough that it would seem most all of the issues have been resolved.


AndyMan  (D 25698)

Apr 6, 2004, 5:23 AM
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Re: [AggieDave] Vigil Ground Misfire [In reply to] Can't Post

What I find amazing is the sheer number of people who've taken a "gotta have it now" approach to a new piece of very complicated electronics. I've been consistenly in the "wait and see" group of by-standers ever since the unit was introduced. I fail to understand why anyone would choose to be an unpaid test-dummy.

_Am


Kris  (D 26033)

Apr 6, 2004, 5:43 AM
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Re: [AndyMan] Vigil Ground Misfire [In reply to] Can't Post

Depends upon the electronics...I got a Neptune knowing full well there were some bugs at the time of release, and now it's a great product.

But an AAD? This is where I'll follow Ron's 2 year rule on new toys.


AndyMan  (D 25698)

Apr 6, 2004, 5:45 AM
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Re: [Kris] Vigil Ground Misfire [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm still waiting on the Nepture, too.

Actually, I'm done waiting. Now I'm just broke. Wink

_Am


Dave1216  (B 104343)

Apr 6, 2004, 6:00 AM
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Re: [chutingstar] Vigil Ground Misfire [In reply to] Can't Post

Not good.

However, communication is much better than it was when cypres was first realeased. Was dropzone.com around 13 years ago?!!?

Although it still raises the point, there still maybe flaws!

The original cypres required a static envlope, why was this? Did the original Cypres have the same problem?

I'd be interested in hearing how many jumps DeLand Majic have done using the Vigil.

Furthermore, i understand vigil will replace the cutter for free after a "lifesaving". Will they replace the cutter if it is fault with manufacture?


(This post was edited by Dave1216 on Apr 6, 2004, 6:07 AM)


skymedic  (C 33561)

Apr 6, 2004, 6:13 AM
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Re: [Dave1216] Vigil Ground Misfire [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Will they replace the cutter if it is fault with manufacture?

yep...it appears they have for the other misfire's....


Unstable  (D 28930)

Apr 6, 2004, 7:34 AM
Post #8 of 136 (6502 views)
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Re: [chutingstar] Vigil Ground Misfire [In reply to] Can't Post

 

I personally think that the Astra AAD was a very good and safe design, but one misfire with the early early models of it pretty much gave it a terrible rep in the skydiving community. If vigil wants to be marketing their AAD for years to come, this first year or two is critical...


AndyMan  (D 25698)

Apr 6, 2004, 7:47 AM
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Re: [Unstable] Vigil Ground Misfire [In reply to] Can't Post

The Astra AAD... I was looking at their most recent Ad in parachutist. One of the "benefits" listed is "stylish colors". Astra has a lot more issues then just one misfire.

_Am


Unstable  (D 28930)

Apr 6, 2004, 7:58 AM
Post #10 of 136 (6475 views)
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Re: [AndyMan] Vigil Ground Misfire [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I was looking at their most recent Ad in parachutist. One of the "benefits" listed is "stylish colors"

Well, I guess if that is one of their main selling points, then they must have a LOT more problems....Crazy


riddler  (D 10234)

Apr 6, 2004, 8:02 AM
Post #11 of 136 (6467 views)
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Re: [chutingstar] Vigil Ground Misfire [In reply to] Can't Post

Just a thought, and it's not directed at anybody in particular - maybe we should wait until Vigil formally responds before we draw conclusions? When they state that there is a real problem and what they are doing to address it, we'll have both sides of the story. The "blank screens" may not in fact be a problem.

SSK makes a great product, but they had their share of issues as well. Personally, I like seeing some competition in this market.


(This post was edited by riddler on Apr 6, 2004, 8:17 AM)


AndyMan  (D 25698)

Apr 6, 2004, 8:32 AM
Post #12 of 136 (6434 views)
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Re: [Unstable] Vigil Ground Misfire [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Well, I guess if that is one of their main selling points, then they must have a LOT more problems....

I thought the inference was clear. My bad.

If FXC thinks I'm going to buy an ADD because it comes in stylish colors, then they've clearly got a misunderstanding of what characteristics people look for in an ADD.

FXC clearly has their priorities confused with the Astra. IIRC, this has been the case since day 1.

_Am


piisfish

Apr 6, 2004, 8:39 AM
Post #13 of 136 (6429 views)
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Re: [Unstable] Vigil Ground Misfire [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I was looking at their most recent Ad in parachutist. One of the "benefits" listed is "stylish colors"

Well, I guess if that is one of their main selling points, then they must have a LOT more problems....Crazy
or they mount the AAD externally, and call it FXC


rjf98  (D 23732)

Apr 6, 2004, 8:43 AM
Post #14 of 136 (6425 views)
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Re: [AggieDave] Vigil Ground Misfire [In reply to] Can't Post

Not really to Dave, just a general reply.

I have not had any problems with mine.... so far. Of course I only have about 8 jumps on itTongue

My only issue has been a lack of response to questions about issues. Of course Airtec is no better.
Take a look around this forum about issues regarding the cypress II.

My rigger thought the unit was easy to install and had no problems with the instruction book.

Dave, you and the guys at SDA can take a look at mine in a few days.

Rich


AndyMan  (D 25698)

Apr 6, 2004, 8:44 AM
Post #15 of 136 (6424 views)
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Re: [riddler] Vigil Ground Misfire [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Just a thought, and it's not directed at anybody in particular - maybe we should wait until Vigil formally responds before we draw conclusions?

I'm confused. I don't see anyone drawing conclusions.

I only see people reinforcing a "wait and see" approach. That is far from a conclusion.

_Am


Praetorian  (B 27234)

Apr 6, 2004, 10:37 AM
Post #16 of 136 (6338 views)
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Re: [AggieDave] Vigil Ground Misfire [In reply to] Can't Post

isn't there a post about the cypresII screen going blank? maybe the same cause for both products? I havn't read about any recent misfires with either cypres1 or 2 but I remember the screen thing


AggieDave  (D License)

Apr 6, 2004, 10:53 AM
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Re: [Praetorian] Vigil Ground Misfire [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
isn't there a post about the cypresII screen going blank?

Yup, and I haven't bought one of thsoe yet either, although I'm giving it less of a "lead" time till I buy one, since they have a previously proven product of the same design, just with slight differences.


jmfreefly  (D License)

Apr 6, 2004, 10:58 AM
Post #18 of 136 (6322 views)
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Re: [Praetorian] Vigil Ground Misfire [In reply to] Can't Post

 
Exactly why the rant at the link is a bit silly, in my view. They removed all their Vigils and replaced them with Cypress 2s, under the view of 'put a proven product in place' (my paraphrasing of the rant). Yet the Cypress 2 had a similar static electricity problem (still waiting to get mine back from this problem being fixed). Granted, it didnt cause a misfire, but it is just as 'unproven' in many contexts.

Each of these products has issues upon release, and no matter how many jumps a test jumper puts on it, there are things that the general public do that a test jumper may never do. The original Cypress went through its growing pains too.

Don't get me wrong, this all annoys the heck out of me (being both a Cypress 2 owner and a Vigil Owner). Thank god I kept my Cypress 1 in one of my rigs.

j


skycat  (D 25740)

Apr 6, 2004, 11:38 AM
Post #19 of 136 (6279 views)
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Re: [chutingstar] Vigil Ground Misfire [In reply to] Can't Post

One other thing I saw in here that should be mentioned.

Jumper dragging thier rig across the ground. This is hard on your rig, your risers, your hardware, everything. Walk your canopy to your rig when you are stowing the lines. Crazy


scottjaco

Apr 6, 2004, 1:28 PM
Post #20 of 136 (6199 views)
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Re: [chutingstar] Vigil Ground Misfire [In reply to] Can't Post

Does anyone have any real ideas about why this is happening?

Static Electricity? please! While Static electricity can fry sensitive electronic components, I don't see how this can happen on an AAD. I have a technical background. While I'm not an expert, I know that the plastic display window helps shield static electricity as well as the hard outer casing on the display unit.

My computer (which I built) doesn't crash every time I slide it on the carpet out from under my desk.

The cypres 2's display problems in my opinion, (and this is only my opinion) is the result of a short in the display from bad workmanship/quality control.

Why do I think this?
Notice that only a handful of Cypres 2's have this problem. If it were static electricity, all of them would have had this problem by now.

Thankfully, in the case of the cypres2, it's only a minor inconvenience.

With all the technology we have, it is difficult to understand why Vigil is misfiring on the ground.

How hard is it to build such a simple device.


(This post was edited by scottjaco on Apr 6, 2004, 1:33 PM)


Chrisky

Apr 6, 2004, 1:45 PM
Post #21 of 136 (6187 views)
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Re: [Praetorian] Vigil Ground Misfire [In reply to] Can't Post

Yep, but the unit is still working, which is unknown with the vigil.
While it's true that cypres went through these early stages as well, i'm happy i'm not a first generation customer on either...


Chrisky

Apr 6, 2004, 1:52 PM
Post #22 of 136 (6180 views)
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Re: [scottjaco] Vigil Ground Misfire [In reply to] Can't Post

Plastic doesn't necessarily shield static electricity...
Especially not that tiny crap plasic window, ending 5 mm next to the control unit on only one side of it.
A encompassing metal frame like in your computer does.

What kind of tech bg is it that you have? How many AADs did you build to know how simple a device it is?

M2C...


scottjaco

Apr 6, 2004, 2:07 PM
Post #23 of 136 (6166 views)
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Re: [Chrisky] Vigil Ground Misfire [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
What kind of tech bg is it that you have?

A few years of electronics in high school and college.
Also an Associates Degree in Audio Production.
Being a Sound Engineer, I work with electronics all day, putting out fires I.E. ground buzzes, shorts, repairing amps, consoles, speakers. I've also built a ton of computers.

I believe I also said that I was no expert on static electrical theory.

Quote:
How many AADs did you build to know how simple a device it is?

There isn't much to it. An altimeter measuring barometic pressure(altitude) measuring the rate of change(speed) determines a preset activation.Wink

Remember...the FXC1200 did all of this without computer chips or batteries!Laugh

scott


(This post was edited by scottjaco on Apr 6, 2004, 2:18 PM)


Chrisky

Apr 6, 2004, 2:20 PM
Post #24 of 136 (6151 views)
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Re: [scottjaco] Vigil Ground Misfire [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
There isn't much to it. An altimeter measuring barometic pressure(altitutude) measuring the rate of change(speed) determines a preset activation.
Well, i'm pretty sure everybody knows the theory, but in practice it seems a bit more complicated. With all that shielding (or not), limited space, tight component integration and stuff... Wink

In reply to:
Remember...the FXC1200 did all of this without computer chips!
Ahem, just let me tell you about the misfires i've seen in my short time in the sport (and even shorter time of seeing FXCs...).... PirateTongue
Anyway, this is getting offtopic...


beej  (A License)

Apr 6, 2004, 2:43 PM
Post #25 of 136 (6133 views)
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Re: [scottjaco] Vigil Ground Misfire [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
How hard is it to build such a simple device.

If it was that simple, there would be a dozen brands to choose from...


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