Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
Poll

 

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airdrew20012001  (D 24834)

Mar 6, 2002, 2:17 PM
Post #1 of 37 (2239 views)
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Poll Can't Post

<FORM METHOD=POST ACTION="/cgi-bin/forums/dopoll.pl"><INPUT TYPE=HIDDEN NAME="pollname" VALUE="1015453034airdrew20012001">
Would you deploy your main if you were on your back?
<INPUT TYPE=RADIO NAME=option VALUE="1"> yes
<INPUT TYPE=RADIO NAME=option VALUE="2"> no
<INPUT TYPE=RADIO NAME=option VALUE="3"> only if I was dire low
<INPUT TYPE=SUBMIT NAME="PollSubmit" VALUE="$lang{'SUB_VOTE'}" CLASS="buttons"></FORM>

Drewfus McDoofus


Premier quade  (D 22635)
Moderator
Mar 6, 2002, 2:37 PM
Post #2 of 37 (2221 views)
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Re: Poll [In reply to] Can't Post

I can't envision a situation wherein if I were on my back, altitude aware and consious, I couldn't roll over at the same time and IN the same time it took me to toss.

Let's say I'm backflying and notice I'm below 2000. What would keep me from rolling over while I was tossing out?

If you're asking would I intentionally toss out while I attempt to remain on my back, I'd have to say the answer would be a definate no.


quade

http://futurecam.com


ChromeBoy

Mar 6, 2002, 2:40 PM
Post #3 of 37 (2217 views)
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Re: Poll [In reply to] Can't Post

I second that Quade. And if I were "dire" low and could not get to my back I would go for the reserve so my cypres would not fire...don't want two canopies.

Kachink,

ChromeBoy


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
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Mar 6, 2002, 3:09 PM
Post #4 of 37 (2198 views)
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Re: Poll [In reply to] Can't Post

>I can't envision a situation wherein if I were on my back, altitude aware and consious,
>I couldn't roll over at the same time and IN the same time it took me to toss.

Someone has just deployed beneath you and slammed into you. You have a compound break in your femur, and your leg is now in front of you. You can't roll onto your belly because the new position of your leg makes you pretty stable on your back. You're at 4000 feet. Would you open your main or your reserve?



-bill von


MarkM  (C 35089)

Mar 6, 2002, 3:19 PM
Post #5 of 37 (2193 views)
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Re: Poll [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I can't envision a situation wherein if I were on my back, altitude aware and consious, I couldn't roll over at the same time and IN the same time it took me to toss.
On my 15 second delay I ended up on my back after leaving the plane. My first thought was that I needed to get stable. My second one was that if I couldn't get stable in 1 try I'd have to deploy on my back since my deployment altitude was coming up.
Luckily I got stable.



ChromeBoy

Mar 6, 2002, 3:24 PM
Post #6 of 37 (2189 views)
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Re: Poll [In reply to] Can't Post

Bill,

At 4,000 feet I would open my main. Because you can always cutaway and your chances of being feet to earth or somewhere close to this is better than being on your back if you have a main malfunction. By "dire" low I was referring to below 2000 feet agl.

Kachink,

ChromeBoy


Premier sangiro
Head Honcho
Mar 6, 2002, 3:47 PM
Post #7 of 37 (2182 views)
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Re: Poll [In reply to] Can't Post

How to live long:

1) Pull
2) Pull at the correct altitude
3) Pull at the correct altitude with stability

...and land safely.

Safe swoops
Sangiro


lummy  (A 40776)

Mar 6, 2002, 4:29 PM
Post #8 of 37 (2163 views)
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Re: Poll [In reply to] Can't Post

quote]1) Pull
2) Pull at the correct altitude
3) Pull at the correct altitude with stability
First thing I thought of when I saw the poll AND The reson I answered pull if I were dire low

Make up your own ending,let me know just how you feel....


Premier quade  (D 22635)
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Mar 6, 2002, 4:37 PM
Post #9 of 37 (2155 views)
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Re: Poll [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
(broken leg et. al...) You're at 4000 feet. Would you open your main or your reserve?
Trick question but I'll go with it.

I'm thinking I'm going to go for my reserve. It's actually designed to be opened at any attitude. Not only that, but I think there's a slightly smaller chance of a horseshoe mal. Lastly, under those conditions, I can't guarantee how long I'm going to be consious and I'm even thinking that the opening shock is probably going to knock me out one way or the other.

What would you do Bill?


quade

http://futurecam.com


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
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Mar 6, 2002, 4:55 PM
Post #10 of 37 (2150 views)
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>What would you do Bill?

That would depend on which rig I was jumping. On my primary rig, I'd open my reserve since it's larger than my main. On my backup rig I'd open my main since it's considerably larger and softer-opening than my reserve, and that might be important with a broken leg.

Take the broken leg out of the equation and I'd always go for my main at 4000 feet. Gives me another shot if I get a nasty deployment problem from being on my back.

-bill von


Engovatov

Mar 6, 2002, 5:17 PM
Post #11 of 37 (2144 views)
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Re: Poll [In reply to] Can't Post

>Gives me another shot if I get a nasty deployment problem from being on my back.

Unless the nature of the said problem is being wrapped tight in your lines..



diverdriver  (D 19012)

Mar 6, 2002, 6:32 PM
Post #12 of 37 (2126 views)
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In reply to:
Someone has just deployed beneath you and slammed into you. You have a compound break in your femur, and your leg is now in front of you. You can't roll onto your belly because the new position of your leg makes you pretty stable on your back. You're at 4000 feet. Would you open your main or your reserve?
Absolutely my reserve. It's bigger than my main and less apt to spin when deployed unstable. I want things to slow WAY down if I have a problem. That's why I jump a reserve that is much bigger than my main. (Stilleto 107/Tempo 150) I've ridden the Tempo twice and really would like it more than the 107 with a broken leg. My .02

Chris




ChromeBoy

Mar 6, 2002, 6:48 PM
Post #13 of 37 (2122 views)
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Re: Poll [In reply to] Can't Post

I would do the opposite because my main is larger than my reserve.

Kachink,

ChromeBoy


MarkM  (C 35089)

Mar 6, 2002, 6:52 PM
Post #14 of 37 (2117 views)
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Re: Poll [In reply to] Can't Post

I'd think I'd go main first because:

1> It'll slow you down.
2> If it gets messed up from my bad body position I'll may be slower and more stable when I cutaway and go to reserve.

But it's not like there's really a right or wrong answer.



PhillyKev

Mar 6, 2002, 7:03 PM
Post #15 of 37 (2113 views)
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I'd go for the main. If I did get tangled it'd be easier cutting away and trying to shake that loose than the reserve. At least I'd have a chance of not not having two out if the first deployed gets entangled. If I went for the reserve first and needed to get more fabric out the only choice would be two out.

cielos azules y cerveza fra

-Kevin


TheMarshMan1  (C 40097)

Mar 6, 2002, 7:29 PM
Post #16 of 37 (2105 views)
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Re: Poll [In reply to] Can't Post

I, for one, dont like the idea of having to deal with a main tangled around me when I have a broken leg and I'm unstable. I think I'd go reserve....In the same situation with no broken leg...probably main. Just my .02

Life's a bitch- be its pimp....Cool


ChromeBoy

Mar 6, 2002, 7:33 PM
Post #17 of 37 (2100 views)
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In reply to:
I, for one, dont like the idea of having to deal with a main tangled around me when I have a broken leg and I'm unstable. I think I'd go reserve....In the same situation with no broken leg...probably main. Just my .02
So you think the spring loading of the reserve will not become entangled more than the main. Why?


Kachink,

ChromeBoy

-Mirage G3 Unisyn-


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
Moderator
Mar 6, 2002, 7:37 PM
Post #18 of 37 (2096 views)
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Freebag.... the entire point of the freebag design is even in the case of a Reserve Horseshoe it will cleanly deploy the reserve. The theory behind the wide bridle is that it can catch air and liftthe freebag too. There is not much keeping the lines stowed to the freebag. Easy to pop them with just a shake of the freebag.

Cause I don't wanna come back down from this cloud... ~ Bush


TheMarshMan1  (C 40097)

Mar 6, 2002, 7:40 PM
Post #19 of 37 (2093 views)
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Re: Poll [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
So you think the spring loading of the reserve will not become entangled more than the main. Why?
Because, as quade said above...reserves are designed to open in wider variety of attitudes. Take what I say with a grain of salt...I'm no expert...thats just what I would do in that situation.

Life's a bitch- be its pimp....Cool


prost  (D 24959)

Mar 6, 2002, 8:28 PM
Post #20 of 37 (2078 views)
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Re: Poll [In reply to] Can't Post

<Someone has just deployed beneath you and slammed into you. You have a compound break in your femur, and your leg is now in front of you. You can't roll onto your belly because the new position of your leg makes you pretty stable on your back. You're at 4000 feet. Would you open your main or your reserve?>


My reserve. I am confident my reserve will open properly with me back to the ground. I also would rather land it if I had a broken leg.


William




mrhixxx  (D 24144)

Mar 6, 2002, 8:32 PM
Post #21 of 37 (2074 views)
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I did an alligator raft dive with a guy out at Emerald Coast last year. He deployed on his back holding onto the alligator and just threw out to the side and deployed clean.

Now that I wear camera. I don't think I would want to go there.

-Hixxx

"Sous ma tub, Dr. Suess ma tub" Crazy


diverdriver  (D 19012)

Mar 7, 2002, 7:04 AM
Post #22 of 37 (2037 views)
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Very good point. Things people need to think about when making these decisions.

Chris




diverdriver  (D 19012)

Mar 7, 2002, 7:08 AM
Post #23 of 37 (2036 views)
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Re: Poll [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Freebag.... the entire point of the freebag design is even in the case of a Reserve Horseshoe it will cleanly deploy the reserve. The theory behind the wide bridle is that it can catch air and liftthe freebag too. There is not much keeping the lines stowed to the freebag. Easy to pop them with just a shake of the freebag.
A friend of mine went in because of that theory. Locking stows never popped and he had a horseshoe mal with his reserve pilot chute. Don't count on that "extra-wide bridle" being able to have enough drag to pull the locking stow.

Chris



(This post was edited by diverdriver on Mar 7, 2002, 7:11 AM)


Premier quade  (D 22635)
Moderator
Mar 7, 2002, 9:53 AM
Post #24 of 37 (2006 views)
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Re: Poll [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
A friend of mine went in because of that theory.
Chris --

Sorry to hear about your friend.

I disagree with your statement however, I don't think that was the reason your friend went in. It seems to me that your friend went in due to a series of events. The three most pertinent of which are whatever caused him to deploy the reserve in the first place, the horseshoe mal and finally some locking stows that wouldn't release.

As a pilot, I'm certain you've sat in numerous classroom sessions and FAA safety seminars and have heard of the theory of accident chains.

It's not that the bridle didn't do it's job, my guess is that it was in fact working as well as it could, but rather that under the circumstances it wasn't enough to correct all of the other malfunctions that had occurred.

BTW, how do you feel about the Reflex Catapult system?


quade

http://futurecam.com


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Mar 7, 2002, 10:56 AM
Post #25 of 37 (1988 views)
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Re: Poll [In reply to] Can't Post

>Freebag.... the entire point of the freebag design is even in the case of a Reserve Horseshoe it will cleanly deploy the reserve.
>The theory behind the wide bridle is that it can catch air and liftthe freebag too. There is not much keeping the lines stowed to the freebag.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>A friend of mine went in because of that theory. Locking stows never popped and he had a horseshoe mal with his reserve pilot chute.

Two friends of mine almost went in because of a reserve horseshoe. Both of them manually deployed the reserve i.e. they grabbed the freebag and threw it. One of them went on to invent an alternate way of launching a horseshoed reserve - the Catapult, as used on the Reflex.

If you're worried about that scenario, the Reflex might be just the ticket.


-bill von


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