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Helmet vs. Cypres

 

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Premier wmw999  (D 6296)

Mar 24, 2004, 2:09 PM
Post #1 of 37 (2103 views)
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Helmet vs. Cypres Can't Post

Is there a parallel between a helmet and a cypres? And does it matter if there is?

Each is designed to protect you in situations where things get out of control, or where you were a little less careful than you might have otherwise been.

But while I am perfectly willing to jump without a cypres, I'd prefer to jump with a helmet. I've jumped without one; probably 100 jumps or so. I worry less on some jumps because I have it.

If we want to get to the core of why or why not it's OK to feel uncomfortable without a Cypres, maybe we should look at helmets, too.

Wendy W.


FrogNog  (C 34484)

Mar 24, 2004, 2:32 PM
Post #2 of 37 (2056 views)
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Re: [wmw999] Helmet vs. Cypres [In reply to] Can't Post

Is there also a parallel between these things and shoes and gloves? For me there is.


USPA  (D 81812)

Mar 24, 2004, 3:26 PM
Post #3 of 37 (2009 views)
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Re: [wmw999] Helmet vs. Cypres [In reply to] Can't Post

Lol... ok

Yes off course, I wouldn't jump without a helmet cause I know I'll need it, a cypres though is highly unlickly...

hehehehehe
(none of the above should be taken seriious, as btw the whole US of A)... (and so it begun... Sly)


Praetorian  (B 27234)

Mar 24, 2004, 3:56 PM
Post #4 of 37 (1989 views)
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Re: [wmw999] Helmet vs. Cypres [In reply to] Can't Post

I think that is a very fair question, I'd bet the oldtimers don't have any stories about helmets being bad back in the day (which is, I think partially why a lot of older skydivers are so down on the technology though I'm probably wrong)

If I may make a parallel

I've noticed that motorcycle riders who choose not to wear helmets usually dont give any shit to those that choose wear them .. so why in skydiving are so many divers so quick to jump on others about useing a cypress, (not about acutally owning one but what it "implies" about them.

Personaly I wear a helmet (though once I'm allowed I'll probably make at least one or two jumps with out one) Personally I use a cypress, I don't count on it I don't trust it, but the tech is proven enough that I feel it reduces far more risk then it adds .. much like a helmet. and just like a helmet or airbag I really dont want to actually have it do its intended job so I try to live like it wont


StearmanR985  (A License)

Mar 24, 2004, 4:03 PM
Post #5 of 37 (1978 views)
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Re: [wmw999] Helmet vs. Cypres [In reply to] Can't Post

I where a helmet when I am doing RW with more than one other person otherwise I do not.

I will not jump without a cypres.

Jeff


Censored  (B 26634)

Mar 24, 2004, 4:05 PM
Post #6 of 37 (1975 views)
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Re: [Praetorian] Helmet vs. Cypres [In reply to] Can't Post

 
I personally hate wearing a helmet and was wondering if anyone knew which license was required to jump without?


bch7773  (C License)

Mar 24, 2004, 4:18 PM
Post #7 of 37 (1950 views)
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Re: [Censored] Helmet vs. Cypres [In reply to] Can't Post

I know you have to wear a helmet while on student status... not sure about when you don't... at my DZ its a rule that you have to wear a helmet of some type until 100 jumps. I guess i always assumed its a DZ rule.


Censored  (B 26634)

Mar 24, 2004, 4:21 PM
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Re: [bch7773] Helmet vs. Cypres [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks, Ill check around


seal_S49

Mar 24, 2004, 4:37 PM
Post #9 of 37 (1941 views)
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Re: [Praetorian] Helmet vs. Cypres [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I'd bet the oldtimers don't have any stories about helmets being bad back in the day (which is, I think partially why a lot of older skydivers are so down on the technology though I'm probably wrong)

To quote Chris Rock, "What the F#@K did he just say?"


(This post was edited by seal_S49 on Mar 24, 2004, 4:39 PM)


firstime  (B 28972)

Mar 24, 2004, 5:12 PM
Post #10 of 37 (1919 views)
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Re: [wmw999] Helmet vs. Cypres [In reply to] Can't Post

Each is designed to protect you in situations where things get out of control, or where you were a little less careful than you might have otherwise been.

I agree with your statement 100% but there was a couple of posts made from 3000+ jumpers who in their view have "never" been in that situation?????
So on that note...let us wear our helmuts and " be
in fashion"


Amazon  (D License)

Mar 24, 2004, 5:15 PM
Post #11 of 37 (1919 views)
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Re: [wmw999] Helmet vs. Cypres [In reply to] Can't Post

Personally I wear a helmet... I am tall and bang my head on airplane parts.. and since even aluminium is harder than my head I think it prudent...

Also not wearing a helmet cause me GREAT PAIN after the skydive...


Talk about SERIOUS TANGLES in my hair... OWWWWWWEEEEEEEE

Cypres.. I have one.. I will use it..

For my water jump rigs.. no cypres but those will be hop and pops so I highly doubt if I will smaxh into someone else or someone will smash into me and be unconcious.


piisfish

Mar 25, 2004, 12:35 AM
Post #12 of 37 (1820 views)
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Re: [wmw999] Helmet vs. Cypres [In reply to] Can't Post

I'd jump mor without AAD than without a helmet.
It's easier to use a camera and an audible mounted in/on a helmet than in/on an AAD Tongue


vt1977  (D License)

Mar 25, 2004, 1:36 AM
Post #13 of 37 (1810 views)
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Re: [wmw999] Helmet vs. Cypres [In reply to] Can't Post

Well... as of 1st April the use of both will be mandatory at my home DZ so I guess I'll be using both. I always did anyway!

Vicki


Liemberg  (Student)

Mar 25, 2004, 2:38 AM
Post #14 of 37 (1801 views)
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Re: [wmw999] Helmet vs. Cypres [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Is there a parallel between a helmet and a cypres? And does it matter if there is?

I think the parallel would be that there isn't a safety measure available that doesn't have a setback.

What the setback of helmets would be?

1. They almost always restrict your vision and hearing.
2. Again, "getting into things you would avoid if you didn't have the gadget"

At a skydiving safety congress I attended years ago one of the speakers told us that when helmets became mandatory in American football (?) due to several nasty skull fractures in the preceding period, the skull fractures indeed diminished only to be replaced with severe neck injuries. With your head protected you could bang into the other guys so hard it could leave you paralyzed...

if it weren't for the cypres (and things that go "beep-beep") we would see a lot less people falling head-down, sitting or standing. It is a fact of life one can get distracted by what is going on in freefall. One of the advantages of falling belly to earth is that you see the earth coming up throughout the jump, which is a lot harder when you look up at the blue sky above, half the time.

Can helmets make up for lousy landing technique?
I have seen posts here where people sort of thanked their helmet manufacturer after "getting in over their head" upon arrival with their too small canopy.

"Another Helmet safe!"
" Uhmm... larger canopy with better training would have done the same, don't you think?"

But if you want to wear one because it stops you worrying, that is OK I guess. I wear a frap hat nowadays, after loosing a dytter + goggle.

I don't land on my head. Tongue


sducoach  (D License)

Mar 25, 2004, 4:23 AM
Post #15 of 37 (1779 views)
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Re: [wmw999] Helmet vs. Cypres [In reply to] Can't Post

Wendy,

What is your issue with using a cypres? You have a couple posts out right now discussing this topic.

How about stating your position and then getting off the issue. Educate.

Blues,

J.E.


chuteless  (D 41)

Mar 25, 2004, 4:52 AM
Post #16 of 37 (1769 views)
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Re: [Praetorian] Helmet vs. Cypres [In reply to] Can't Post

I do not see the revelance in your comment about helmets and technology.

Back in 1964, at the AGM of CSPA, there was a big discussion about helmets. The big song then was " If you have a $10.00 head wear a $10.00 helmet"

Ive jumped without one many times, and the big head of hair I "used to have" has all blown away.. SOB SOB.

I wear one now, to save what little hair is left.

I did have one nasty crack while wearing a helmet as I collided with another jumper during a demo jump. If we hadnt had helmets, we would have had headaches...biggies at that.

The main resons for helmets back then was because the connectror links could give you quite a crack on the skull as your rig deployed.

It was also to save your noggin from hitting rocks or anything hard on landing....if you didnt do standups.

As for a Cypress, I have never worn any AAD, and never would. If there was one on a rig I was using, Id have it turned off.

Sometimes I dont wear an altimeter either. Sometimes I wear an altimeter that doesnt work too well, its window dressing. The rules say you have to wear an altimeter...it doesnt say it has to work.

I can pull on someone else...or eyeball it.

I always obey DZ rules and open where they say I have to....but if allowed, then I pick my spot. As long as its above ground. Im comfortable with that...but I do obey DZ rules SOB SOB.

I dont see the connection between tech and helmets used back in the other days.

Bill Cole D-41


(This post was edited by chuteless on Mar 25, 2004, 4:52 AM)


pullhigh  (D 22774)

Mar 25, 2004, 6:09 AM
Post #17 of 37 (1737 views)
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Re: [vt1977] Helmet vs. Cypres [In reply to] Can't Post

Both will be mandatory? And exceptions to that rule? ie. D license holders, or 1000 jump exclusion...

Just curious.

What DZ is this?

My DZ has a Cypres rule, C license and under, AAD required.

Ganja


Premier wmw999  (D 6296)

Mar 25, 2004, 6:34 AM
Post #18 of 37 (1727 views)
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Re: [sducoach] Helmet vs. Cypres [In reply to] Can't Post

I think both helmets and AADs are excellent devices. I think that some people who use AADs as a standard piece of their defense might be glossing over the general situation that it takes a serious mistake to need one in the first place.

Once an incident report begins and ends with "thank goodness he had an AAD" then the AAD has helped that person live, but has harmed the ability to learn from the mechanics of the incident.

As far as helmets are concerned, I'm curious as to how close the parallel is; honestly.

I don't really have to "have a position." It can be evolving, and it can change. That's why I'm interested -- it's not a closed issue for a lot of people obviously.

Wendy W.


vt1977  (D License)

Mar 25, 2004, 6:40 AM
Post #19 of 37 (1723 views)
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Re: [pullhigh] Helmet vs. Cypres [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Both will be mandatory? And exceptions to that rule? ie. D license holders, or 1000 jump exclusion...

Helmets are compulsory for all in the UK anyway. Frap hats can be worn with 200 jumps but yes, some sort of headgear is mandatory regardless of jump numbers.

As for the Cypres rule, see here: http://www.netheravon.com/document.asp?id=26

In reply to:
What DZ is this?

Netheravon, UK.

Vicki


JKT  (B 103559)

Mar 25, 2004, 9:23 AM
Post #20 of 37 (1673 views)
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Re: [vt1977] Helmet vs. Cypres [In reply to] Can't Post

I think Dukeswell (also in the UK) has made it mandatory to jump with an AAD fitted as well. Someone correct me if I am wrong.


(This post was edited by JKT on Mar 25, 2004, 9:26 AM)


Premier Tonto  (D 515)
Moderator
Mar 25, 2004, 9:36 AM
Post #21 of 37 (1663 views)
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Re: [wmw999] Helmet vs. Cypres [In reply to] Can't Post

I have a Cypress. It was a gift. I have a bonehead mindwarp it was a gift.

The Cypress is in one of the 2 rigs I use.
I use the helmet when I freefly cos I suck.

I wear gloves in winter.

I always use shoes.

t


mr2mk1g  (C 103449)

Mar 25, 2004, 9:52 AM
Post #22 of 37 (1654 views)
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Re: [wmw999] Helmet vs. Cypres [In reply to] Can't Post

I can't bold a camera to my cypres...

(but seriously) I have absolutly no misconseption about my helmet saving my life. I do not wear it to save my life but to stop me banging my head and making it hurt. If I'm hit hard I'm gonna be injured and no helmet is going to make much of a difference - its just another one of those risks I accept when I walk out to the plane.


Praetorian  (B 27234)

Mar 25, 2004, 11:25 AM
Post #23 of 37 (1625 views)
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Re: [seal_S49] Helmet vs. Cypres [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I'd bet the oldtimers don't have any
Quote:
stories about helmets being bad back in the day (which is, I think partially why a lot of older skydivers are so down on the technology though I'm probably wrong)

To quote Chris Rock, "What the F#@K did he just say?"

I'm saying that when AADs first arrived on the scene they had problems (serious problems) misfires etc, the drawbacks were so great that them might not have been an overall bennifit, Ron has pointed out to me that many skydivers hated them so much they worked hard so they were allowed to jump without them. I'm of the opinion that those experiences with early AADs have lingering effects on the current preception of AADs by those who were jumping with/around the early ones .. thats what the F#@K I'm saying ... oh and its just my preception and I could be wrong Tongue


Praetorian  (B 27234)

Mar 25, 2004, 11:31 AM
Post #24 of 37 (1623 views)
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Re: [chuteless] Helmet vs. Cypres [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I dont see the connection between tech and helmets used back in the other days.

What I'm getting at is an AAD and a helmet only do their job when something goes wrong, many skydivers are down on AADs but not helmets. I think thats partially because helmets didn't cause any problems(or at least none as major) as AADs when they first arrived. Personaly I see them as the same type of thing, something I shouldn't need, that I work hard not to need, but will be damn glad is there reguardlss of if its my mistake or an "act of god" that makes the helmet/cypress prove its value.


bmcd308  (D 27472)

Mar 25, 2004, 3:10 PM
Post #25 of 37 (1594 views)
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Re: [Praetorian] Helmet vs. Cypres [In reply to] Can't Post

There are predictable problems associated with helmets, too. Their weight can increase the likelihood of an upper back or neck injury on opening. Any but the thinnest ones (read: ones that offer the least protection) can create a snag point for a loop of line going by, even if the helmet surface is relatively snag-free, by having the line catch in the gap between the skydiver's head and the helmet. In a faceplant, the edge of the helmet at the back of the neck can act as a fulcrum, making neck injuries more severe. A helmet can limit your peripheral vision, making collisions more likely.

All that said, I wear one. One once saved my life when I got off a motorcycle at speed.

And there are NOT certain skydives I go on where I say, "Boy, I sure wouldn't dream of doing a dive this crazy without a helmet and an AAD! Chances are I'll need them both before this genius dive plan sorts itself out."

Brent


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