Forums: Skydiving: Incidents:
about 3 weeks ago I hade a hard pull

 


SkyFrog  (D 26694)

Dec 4, 2003, 5:28 PM
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about 3 weeks ago I hade a hard pull Can't Post

Hard Pull about 3 weeks ago I hade a hard pull.
After a mostly successful 5 way I turned and tracked away as normal,
I tracked a little longer than normal, did my normal wave off and went to pull this is ware things got interesting. I reached back and went to pull my about 2/3s of my pilot chute pulled out and stuck, so I yanked harder, nothing. I let go and reached back again grabbed it and pulled it was not going to budge. I started thinking to myself I dont want to use my reserve, my ditter flat lined and instantly I hade a big white chute over my head and a red and sliver handle in my left hand. I dont recall grabbing them. I hade a very short canopy ride and a ruff landing in a farmers field I looked around to find about 6 people landing around me; One by my free bag one near me a truck with the DZ Manager in it. We got back to the DZ and the S&TA was there to look at my rig and talk with me about what happened. We figured out what got my pilot chute bunched up and caught up in the pocket. The years of practicing my emergency procedures paid off.
That is why I love this sport, yes the hard pull came from the way I packed my pilot chute I got lazy. But it was the way the people reacted to me, the people that helped me get my gear the jumpers that landed to help me if I needed it. The S&TA that just wanted to help me find what happened and prevent it from happening again. So I will go off and buy beer and get my reserve packed and jump another day.


(This post was edited by SkyFrog on Dec 4, 2003, 5:29 PM)


andy2

Dec 4, 2003, 6:56 PM
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Re: [SkyFrog] about 3 weeks ago I hade a hard pull [In reply to] Can't Post

technically that wasn't a hard pull, that was an impossible pull. A hard pull is where its hard but you do get it out. At least from what I understand about the semantics of it all. CrazyLaugh

I had a series of hard pulls until I figured out how to pack my PC so that it stayed real neat and very thin, so that it used the entire BOC instead of just bunching up at the top. After that my pulls became significantly smoother. YMMV.


Hazarrd

Dec 4, 2003, 11:02 PM
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Re: [SkyFrog] about 3 weeks ago I hade a hard pull [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey dude. Glad you made it out. I had a very similiar incident happen around 2 months ago. I was actually on a 5 way as well. Interesting how fast you pull that silver handle, eh? I thought the same thing.

Anyways, after that incident I was very nervous about how I packed my PC. I would check and re-check that I could pull it out every jump. I finally got annoyed with this so I talked to various jumpers/packers about different ways to pack a PC. I discovered a new way that I like much better and feel very comfortable with.


mr2mk1g  (C 103449)

Dec 5, 2003, 1:42 AM
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Re: [SkyFrog] about 3 weeks ago I hade a hard pull [In reply to] Can't Post

Ignoring the cause of it all of course, the one thing I can say about this incident is: Textbook

From the way you reacted to the problem, to the way people on your load responded to your reserve ride, to the way the ST&A dealt with your issue, all textbook. Thats exactly how it all should happen IMO.

Makes me happy.


TheMonkey  (D License)

Dec 5, 2003, 8:12 AM
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Re: [SkyFrog] about 3 weeks ago I hade a hard pull [In reply to] Can't Post

good job saving your own life! couple quick questions (no interrogation intended)....what altitude did you pull reserve at? what altitude were you under reserve at? it's not super clear from your post whether you pulled cutaway handle first (though i think you did)...

again, glad you're alive man

edit b/c i am a grammar tard


(This post was edited by TheMonkey on Dec 5, 2003, 8:15 AM)


TheMonkey  (D License)

Dec 5, 2003, 8:25 AM
Post #6 of 17 (2263 views)
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Re: [mr2mk1g] about 3 weeks ago I hade a hard pull [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Ignoring the cause of it all of course, the one thing I can say about this incident is: Textbook
i don't want to be overly critical, but some things need to be cleared up before this statement can be made.

Frog, what is your flatline audible set at? you said you heard it and pulled immediately (without thinking), yet
Quote:
I hade a very short canopy ride
that doesn't make sense to me unless you were low.

One last thing, imo, this phrase
Quote:
I started thinking to myself I dont want to use my reserve
should never enter your head, i am more than willing to use my reserve on any skydive that requires it!

Again, not attacking you at all Frog...proper packing of pilot chute is very important and sometimes overlooked, altitude awareness, and emergency procedures are what should be taken away from this thread....


(This post was edited by TheMonkey on Dec 5, 2003, 8:27 AM)


Newbie  (C License)

Dec 5, 2003, 11:39 AM
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Re: [andy2] about 3 weeks ago I hade a hard pull [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I had a series of hard pulls until I figured out how to pack my PC so that it stayed real neat and very thin, so that it used the entire BOC instead of just bunching up at the top. After that my pulls became significantly smoother. YMMV.

Someone please correct me if im wrong, but i thought that packing the pc long and thin isn't necessarily a good thing, particularly for freeflying as it has a higher propensity to slide out of the BOC if the hackey or handle catches air from different body positions. I tend to pack mine shorter and fatter, then gently punch it to flatten it out and even out the material a little when i have placed it in the BOC pouch.


Long and thin... Won't stay in.
Short and fat is where it's at!

Quoted from http://www.bigairsportz.com/pilot-chute.php


rigging65  (D 21921)

Dec 5, 2003, 11:48 AM
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Re: [Newbie] about 3 weeks ago I hade a hard pull [In reply to] Can't Post

Anyway you fold it, just be sure your last move is never folding it in half long-ways, making it only half as long when you're done with the fold. This will cause it to ball up as you're trying to deploy it, making for a very hard or impossible pull. Commonly referred to as a monkey-fist malfunction (by some at least!). Crazy


SkyFrog  (D 26694)

Dec 5, 2003, 3:05 PM
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Re: [TheMonkey] about 3 weeks ago I hade a hard pull [In reply to] Can't Post

Monkey
Frog, what is your flatline audible set at?
Quote:
I think it is at 1500' (ok I checked it is 1500')

Yes I went low...people on the ground told me I looked to be in CYPRES range I dont remember looking at my Alt I dont know when I was open.

I was over a open feld picked a spot and landed maby a 3-4 min ride.

One last thing, imo, this phrase
Quote:
I started thinking to myself I dont want to use my reserve
should never enter your head, i am more than willing to use my reserve on any skydive that requires it!

Well what can I say that is what I was thinking but something tookover and the handles went flying...

Cool


(This post was edited by SkyFrog on Dec 5, 2003, 3:38 PM)


SkyFrog  (D 26694)

Dec 5, 2003, 3:47 PM
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Re: [rigging65] about 3 weeks ago I hade a hard pull [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Anyway you fold it, just be sure your last move is never folding it in half long-ways, making it only half as long when you're done with the fold. This will cause it to ball up as you're trying to deploy it, making for a very hard or impossible pull. Commonly referred to as a monkey-fist malfunction (by some at least!). Crazy

rigging65..that is the way I was tought to fold my PC about 5 years ago and have never changed the way I do business...but I may be open to a new idea..Pirate

and munkeyfist is the term the S&TA used


(This post was edited by SkyFrog on Dec 5, 2003, 3:48 PM)


rigging65  (D 21921)

Dec 5, 2003, 4:54 PM
Post #11 of 17 (2031 views)
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Re: [SkyFrog] about 3 weeks ago I hade a hard pull [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
rigging65..that is the way I was tought to fold my PC about 5 years ago and have never changed the way I do business...but I may be open to a new idea..

I think a lot of people were taught that way. When you put that last fold (the one that reduces the length by half) and slip it into the pocket, you're essentially making the pilot chute do a U-turn on the way out. It doesn't slip out as 1 unit, it kind of snakes out...and if the mouth of your BOC is nice and tight, you can actually build up enough bulk right behind the mouth to keep it from coming out.

It's called a monkey-fist because, legend says, you can catch a monkey by placing something sweet in a jar that's tied to something solid and with a mouth only wide enough for the monkey to slip it's paw into when it's open and slender. The monkey is so greedy that he won't open his fist and let go of the sweet when the hunter comes back to collect him, so he's effectively "tied" to the jar and can't escape. Silly monkey. Tongue Anyway, the balled up mass of his fist is too big to come out of the narrow jar mouth, just like your pilot chute was too big to get past the small BOC opening once it balled itself up.

There are about as many ways to fold a pilot chute as there are jumpers out there...but the one below works well. It actually gets more narrow as you extract it from the BOC. Meaning, if you can get it started, you shouldn't be able to get it stuck. I'll try to explain, please bear with me.

Lay out the pc next to your rig. Fold it in half so it looks like half a pie. Gather your bridle material up and S-fold it into a pile in the middle, "pointing" towards the hackey. Then fold the remaining pc into pie-piece thirds. You should end up with a nice slice of pie. Now fold one of the two lower corners (doesn't matter which one) up to the hackey. Then, roll the whole thing down, starting from the hackey. You should end up with a nice, short, tight roll.

If you grip this roll tightly in your hand (like it's your BOC pouch) and pull it out by the hackey, you'll feel the roll getting more narrow as the pilot chute slips out like a snake, from the middle of the roll out.

Hopefully this is relatively clear. Try it, you'll see how well it works. It really pretty much eliminates monkey-fists...

As always, keeping your BOC mouth tight is the best prevention to a premi. This style fold makes your toss easy, but keeps the pc tight and secure until you pull on it.


ZigZag

Dec 7, 2003, 12:56 AM
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Re: [SkyFrog] about 3 weeks ago I hade a hard pull [In reply to] Can't Post

CrazyKudos...
We are however dealing with an issue that may have ended badly,
and I would be interested in some precise information about your equipment.
No one should feel that they may be flaming some mfg's product, but the information supplied, would enable many riggers ( and mfg's) to refer to their knowledge base
in regards to configurations and manufacturing techniques of the "related" pouch that the p/c was stowed in!!!
The 'throat' of the pouch and some of the designs
in use have bearing on this issue. Was new gear involved? Old gear?
In what condition was the Spandex? How wide was the elastic band at the throat of the pouch, if present? Where there any mods done to the pouch, such as tightening the throat via stitching?
Folding of the p/c is important, but there are many problems associated with a worn or improperly maintained or replaced pouch!!!
Specific descriptions help to narrow down problems
with gear and maintenance, otherwise we'll keep on spinning the wheels of a thread with no real answers in sight!
Ziggy


(This post was edited by ZigZag on Dec 7, 2003, 12:59 AM)


SkyFrog  (D 26694)

Dec 7, 2003, 6:03 AM
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Re: [ZigZag] about 3 weeks ago I hade a hard pull [In reply to] Can't Post

ZigZag
Good point...my rigg is:
a Dolphon 2000 purchased in 98 with a kill line PC
there was a bridle flap added not to long ago.....humm you may have something there. I think I will take a long hard look at that it seems to me it would add something to snag on....I probly have about 20 jumps on the rigg after the flap was added.Pirate


Hazarrd

Dec 7, 2003, 6:18 AM
Post #14 of 17 (1913 views)
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Re: [SkyFrog] about 3 weeks ago I hade a hard pull [In reply to] Can't Post

Have you guys seen the new Wings BOC? Its made of cordura instead of spandex. Looks like it would prevent this problem. Im pretty sure you can get it added on by a rigger to any rig.


gremlin  (D License)

Dec 7, 2003, 9:56 AM
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Re: [Hazarrd] about 3 weeks ago I hade a hard pull [In reply to] Can't Post

This post shows the importance of having that hard deck. You hit that height and you carry out your reserve drills. This was carried out in a textbook manner and your instructor deserves a well done as well as you.


Jasmin  (D License)

Dec 7, 2003, 6:37 PM
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Re: [SkyFrog] about 3 weeks ago I hade a hard pull [In reply to] Can't Post

Know what that feels like!!!LaughCrazyBlush
Glad you're okTongue


TheMonkey  (D License)

Dec 8, 2003, 8:39 AM
Post #17 of 17 (1734 views)
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Re: [SkyFrog] about 3 weeks ago I hade a hard pull [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I think it is at 1500' (ok I checked it is 1500')

Yes I went low...people on the ground told me I looked to be in CYPRES range I dont remember looking at my Alt I dont know when I was open.
completely your choice, but you might want to think about maybe setting that last warning a little higher....again, glad your dealt with it all...



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