Forums: Skydiving: Incidents:
Near Fatal at Rantoul

 

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base698  (D 23456)

Aug 11, 2003, 12:37 PM
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Near Fatal at Rantoul Can't Post

On the first day of Rantoul I opened normally at around 2200 ft. I jump a Velocity at about 2:1. I had to steer away from someone on my jump. As I started to stow my slider a person still in freefall struck the left front part of my canopy. I had heard this person broke their femur or hip. You can see them go by on my video and if one of the people behind me had video you could have clearly seen it from his angle. He was startled almost as much as me. Curious if anyone else saw or heard anything about this? I know it happened on a C-130 load toward the end as well.


Cornholio  (D License)

Aug 11, 2003, 12:43 PM
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Re: [base698] Near Fatal at Rantoul [In reply to] Can't Post

So this person broke their hip or whatever as a result of hitting your canopy or some other reason ? Was he/she on the same load as you ? Was it determined if they jumped right after you without any separation ?

Glad your OK. That's one of my biggest fears is someone plunging through my canopy or worse striking me.


alanab

Aug 11, 2003, 12:53 PM
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Re: [base698] Near Fatal at Rantoul [In reply to] Can't Post

was it lew?


kevin922  (D 26500)

Aug 11, 2003, 12:57 PM
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Re: [alanab] Near Fatal at Rantoul [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
was it lew?

i seriously doubt it, the posts about lew said it was the landing that she got hurt on.. during a reserve ride from a spinning mal on demo gear.


base698  (D 23456)

Aug 11, 2003, 2:16 PM
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Re: [Cornholio] Near Fatal at Rantoul [In reply to] Can't Post

It was not Lew and there were 5 people behind me on the load. The load was Mullin's. I talked to 4 of the 5 people and none of them knew anything about it. There was one solo behind me that I was never able to find. The other possibility was it was a jumper from another load.

They supposedly broke their hip from hitting the canopy. I sustained no damage other than a hurt upper arm and elbow which I think was a result of the canopy jarring after the impact.


pds  (D 27641)

Aug 11, 2003, 2:29 PM
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Re: [base698] Near Fatal at Rantoul [In reply to] Can't Post

i sorry, im scratching my head wondering how one breaks bones resultant a conflict with airfilled nylon. am i being naive?


base698  (D 23456)

Aug 11, 2003, 2:36 PM
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Re: [pds] Near Fatal at Rantoul [In reply to] Can't Post

I've heard that canopies are very solid when pressurized. The person could have been fine it was just a rumor I had heard.


diablopilot  (D License)

Aug 11, 2003, 2:42 PM
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Re: [pds] Near Fatal at Rantoul [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
i sorry, im scratching my head wondering how one breaks bones resultant a conflict with airfilled nylon. am i being naive?

No you are not. It's all about closing speeds. If you hit another parachut whill under your own, I'd be suprised if you broke anything, but if you hit a parachut traveling at 15-20 MPH and you are doing 120+MPH you'll be lucky if you ONLY break something.

Ever jump int water from 10 feet or less? Little splash, and doesn't hurt. Ever jumped off a really high rock or bridge into water, or maybe wiped out waterskiing? The water feels almost as hard a concrete. Same concept here.

To the original poster: You never found this person? Was your canopy damaged?


base698  (D 23456)

Aug 11, 2003, 2:54 PM
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Re: [diablopilot] Near Fatal at Rantoul [In reply to] Can't Post

Canopy wasn't damaged at all and I never found the person. Either he/she didn't own up to it or he was injured and not at the convention for the rest of the time.


Hooknswoop  (D License)

Aug 11, 2003, 3:15 PM
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Re: [base698] Near Fatal at Rantoul [In reply to] Can't Post

Sorry a little confused,
Quote:
I know it happened on a C-130 load toward the end as well.
Quote:
The load was Mullin's

Were you on the C-130 or Mullin's King Air?

The one canopy collision I have seen destroyed two end cells of the canopy and injured the jumper that was in freefall knee.

What altitude where you at when the other jumper collided with you?

Derek


rigging65  (D 21921)

Aug 11, 2003, 3:34 PM
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Re: [pds] Near Fatal at Rantoul [In reply to] Can't Post

You can certainly hurt yourself, with enough closing speed, by hitting an inflated canopy. But it should have damaged the canopy as well...especially if the other guy broke his femur. It takes a lot of energy to break that bone, and the canopy would almost surely show damage from that type of strike.


base698  (D 23456)

Aug 11, 2003, 4:56 PM
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Re: [Hooknswoop] Near Fatal at Rantoul [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Were you on the C-130 or Mullin's King Air?

I was on the King Air. Another accident (same type happened on the C-130. My canopy was not damaged at all and I was at around 2000 ft.


AirMail  (A 41633)

Aug 11, 2003, 6:09 PM
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Re: [base698] Near Fatal at Rantoul [In reply to] Can't Post

Someone on the same C130 load as me flew his canopy under me from behind and my feet hit it collapsing an end cell. It reinflated and we both landed OK. It could have been real bad if he had been 5 feet higher or I had been 5 feet lower.

Patrick


mccordia  (D 94775)

Aug 12, 2003, 1:24 AM
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Re: [AirMail] Near Fatal at Rantoul [In reply to] Can't Post

What amazes me, is that you say you opened at around 2200, so you where under canopy at around 2000/1800.

What was that other guy/girl doing at 2000 ft (or lower) and still being in freefall?


craddock  (D 22750)

Aug 12, 2003, 5:22 AM
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Re: [mccordia] Near Fatal at Rantoul [In reply to] Can't Post

 
Quote:
What was that other guy/girl doing at 2000 ft (or lower) and still being in freefall?

Falling toward the earth? Are you meaning to imply that this was caused by the jumper not pulling higher? Good separation and awareness of other groups/loads in the air are the key to avoiding this, not by pulling higher.

Josh


nitrodan  (C 34498)

Aug 12, 2003, 8:20 AM
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Re: [base698] Near Fatal at Rantoul [In reply to] Can't Post

I saw the one happen out of the c-130. I just happened to be looking at the jumpers in freefall one person hit the others fully inflated canopie and slid off the back they then fell a couple hundred feet and deployed I never saw them land or met them but they both are very lucky.


drbius

Aug 12, 2003, 8:29 AM
Post #17 of 31 (4010 views)
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Re: [base698] Near Fatal at Rantoul [In reply to] Can't Post

I really doubt that anyone could break a bone by hitting an inflated canopy.
I was involved in a similar incident at Tecumseh, Michigan in '88.

We were doing a dual rodeo dive.
When the riders got on our backs, my rider and I started falling faster than the other two so we broke grips.
When my rider got off, she must have inadvertently snagged the pin lanyard for my main (SST Racer with a pull-out).
I hadn't even tracked for 1 second when my main deployed.
I looked up at a good canopy and before I could even release the brakes "wham!", something hit me.
Looking up again, I could see a piece of trash for a canopy.
Cut-away.
Deployed reserve.
That's when my left foot started hurting.
It turns out that the rider in the other pair of our dual rodeo event while still in freefall had fallen through the forward part of my main (a Cruise Light), zippering a cell open in the process.
She continued on to hit my left foot with her left pelvis.
She went "Z" as a result but got open around 1000' or so.
We both went to the hospital that day and miraculously, neither of us had broken anything.
I had a BAD sprain which took about 3 weeks to heal.
She had some pretty bad bruising to her pelvis and internal organs.


QuickDraw  (C License)

Aug 12, 2003, 8:55 AM
Post #18 of 31 (3975 views)
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Re: [base698] Near Fatal at Rantoul [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
You can see them go by on my video and if one of the people behind me had video you could have clearly seen it from his angle.

Any chance of seeing this video ?
More for my own curiosity than to identify the jumper.

Close call glad you both made it.


kevin922  (D 26500)

Aug 12, 2003, 8:57 AM
Post #19 of 31 (3973 views)
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Re: [drbius] Near Fatal at Rantoul [In reply to] Can't Post

i strongly feel someone could break a bone from hitting an inflated canopy, i'd say from your story you two were just lucky :)


skydivegirl  (D 25942)

Aug 12, 2003, 9:02 AM
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Re: [base698] Near Fatal at Rantoul [In reply to] Can't Post

Justin you should post your video somewhere. I never did see it.


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Aug 12, 2003, 2:02 PM
Post #21 of 31 (3801 views)
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Re: [drbius] Near Fatal at Rantoul [In reply to] Can't Post

> I really doubt that anyone could break a bone by hitting an inflated canopy.

Last year Winsor and Jeanie had a canopy collision after opening. There was massive bruising and some bleeding even through her jumpsuit - and their closing speed was no more than 40-50mph. A freefaller-canopy collision with a closing speed of 120mph can easily break your neck.


Pubwoof  (D 28991)

Aug 12, 2003, 4:36 PM
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Re: [drbius] Near Fatal at Rantoul [In reply to] Can't Post

Based the description you gave, it sounds as though the closing speed involved in your incident may have been significantly less than that of WFFC incident. If that is indeed the case, it might explain why both of you sustained injuries that were more minor in spite of their being actual jumper to jumper contact.

Just thinking out loud, nothing more.


apoil  (D License)

Aug 12, 2003, 7:45 PM
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Re: [diablopilot] Near Fatal at Rantoul [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Ever jump int water from 10 feet or less? Little splash, and doesn't hurt. Ever jumped off a really high rock or bridge into water, or maybe wiped out waterskiing? The water feels almost as hard a concrete. Same concept here.

no, not even close.

Water is not compressible.
yes you can hit water faster than earth because it flows, but hit it hard enough and it's hard as concrete because its not compressible.

Air which is in your canopy, is compressible. Hitting an air filled canopy still may produce an injury at high speeds but it's not the same thing, no not at all.

In fact, what do they use to break the fall of stunt men jumping from several stories? Air. Air in foam, or air in nylon.


diablopilot  (D License)

Aug 12, 2003, 11:22 PM
Post #24 of 31 (3557 views)
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Re: [apoil] Near Fatal at Rantoul [In reply to] Can't Post

Perhaps you missed the point of the analogy. Something (a canopy) that will produce little to no damage in a low speed impact will and has caused injuries, and fatalities at higher speeds. I do not propose anyone test this theory, so lets just be safe out there.

BTW stunt men rarely exceed a 40-50 MPH closing speed with the giant airbags designed to deflate in a rapid and controlled manner when doing high falls.

The foam and cardboard boxes are used on only the lowest of stunt jumps.


freeflir29  (D 10000000)

Aug 13, 2003, 8:40 AM
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Re: [diablopilot] Near Fatal at Rantoul [In reply to] Can't Post

Just my .02C. I have known 2 people that hit canopies in free fall. Neither of them broke any bones but one has a HECK of a scar from a line that went right across her chest. Made a rather deep cut.


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