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At what altitude do you go directly to the silver handle.

 

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Poll: At what altitude do you go directly to the silver handle.
Have never though about it and dont have a plan. 2 / 1%
Never, Im dumping out my main even if the grass is in my face. 5 / 2%
Less than 500 6 / 2%
501 to 1000 56 / 18%
1001 to 1500 144 / 46%
1501 to 2000 88 / 28%
2001 to 2500 9 / 3%
2501 plus 2 / 1%
312 total votes
 
d604  (D 604)

May 28, 2003, 10:23 AM
Post #1 of 40 (3909 views)
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At what altitude do you go directly to the silver handle. Can't Post

This poll is if you find yourself in freefall and low. What is your altitude that you would not try the main first and go directly to your reserve.

The last two options are more for students and novices. Note, Im not asking for tandem minimums as that would be different (I hope) and I dont want the poll skewed by tandems.

Please explain your response.

Thanks,
Sean


Michele  (B 26874)

May 28, 2003, 10:27 AM
Post #2 of 40 (3863 views)
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Re: [d604] At what altitude do you go directly to the silver handle. [In reply to] Can't Post

I jump a Spectre, with a Cypres. I really don't want a 2-out scenario, so if I think I will get into cypres territory, I will pull silver. $45 to repack and no more jumping that day is, to me, preferable than a 2-out.

Ciels-
Michele


DYEVOUT  (Student)

May 28, 2003, 10:28 AM
Post #3 of 40 (3856 views)
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Re: [d604] At what altitude do you go directly to the silver handle. [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm not licensed yet, and jumping rented gear - but if I pulled silver above 2000' (without a mal), I'd expect to pay for the repack.Unimpressed

Big Sabres don't snivel muchSmile


ladyskydiver

May 28, 2003, 10:29 AM
Post #4 of 40 (3850 views)
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Re: [d604] At what altitude do you go directly to the silver handle. [In reply to] Can't Post

2000 is my decision altitude under a main and as a result, I would keep it the same for going for silver. If I was a dummy and ended up at 2000 without having a main over my head, I'd pull silver. A repack is cheaper than losing my life.


Amazon  (D License)

May 28, 2003, 10:31 AM
Post #5 of 40 (3848 views)
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Re: [d604] At what altitude do you go directly to the silver handle. [In reply to] Can't Post

I have a Cypress and I want a canopy before I get to the 750 ft level. I usually dump at 2500' and if the main is not there after that long... then something is seriously wrong and I want my Raven flying above my head.

Amazon


SkydiveMonkey  (B 102345)

May 28, 2003, 10:34 AM
Post #6 of 40 (3842 views)
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Re: [d604] At what altitude do you go directly to the silver handle. [In reply to] Can't Post

I'd like to think I'd get my reserve pad out at or below 1500. And yes I have a CyPReS.


cgross

May 28, 2003, 10:39 AM
Post #7 of 40 (3822 views)
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Re: [d604] At what altitude do you go directly to the silver handle. [In reply to] Can't Post

I am a novice, and i went for 1k-1.5Kft. I was taught under a grand to go for silver, over a grand it is my best guess. If I had nothing open at 1500 though i figure it will b 1000 before it starts to deploy, so I am pulling silver!!!!


wmw999  (D 6296)

May 28, 2003, 10:40 AM
Post #8 of 40 (3821 views)
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Re: [d604] At what altitude do you go directly to the silver handle. [In reply to] Can't Post

Actually, I don't know yet, because I've never done it. I've been between 2000' and 1500' before opening, so I know that's not it. And that would be very unlikely to be it anyway.

I have a Cypres now, so maybe it should be once I hit 1500. But habit is very strong, y'know.

Wendy W.


beowulf  (C License)

May 28, 2003, 10:44 AM
Post #9 of 40 (3811 views)
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Re: [d604] At what altitude do you go directly to the silver handle. [In reply to] Can't Post

1500 is my hard deck. If I don't have a controlable parachute or anything at all then I cutaway and go directly to silver. I don't have a Cypres so two out is pretty unlikely.


towerrat  (D 28189)

May 28, 2003, 10:48 AM
Post #10 of 40 (3801 views)
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Re: [d604] At what altitude do you go directly to the silver handle. [In reply to] Can't Post

I dump regularly between 2 and 2.5 k. If I had a significant problem it would eat up at least 2 or 3 seconds. any longer and we're talkin a thousand feet. I have found myself at approx. 1700 and dumped my main.I must agree with Wendy that it is a hard habit to break.You have trained your muscles and brain to throw your main.


aufreefly  (A 35174)

May 28, 2003, 11:53 AM
Post #11 of 40 (3716 views)
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Re: [d604] At what altitude do you go directly to the silver handle. [In reply to] Can't Post

I said that I would go to my reserve between 10k and 15k. In reality I went low before and ended up duming my main at 1400 feet and snivelling through my CYPRES firing. I tried to pull at about 1700 and missed the first time.

Muscle memory, didn't once think about going for the reserve.


BikerBabe  (D 18644)

May 28, 2003, 11:57 AM
Post #12 of 40 (3702 views)
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Re: [d604] At what altitude do you go directly to the silver handle. [In reply to] Can't Post

Well, I checked what I WANT to do, which is 2000 or lower.

However, realistically, if you realize you're low, I have a feeling that most people will do what muscle memory and possibly hundreds or thousands of jumps experience and built-up reflexes tell them to do, which is go for the main.

Not saying if this is right or wrong. I'm just trying to be realistic...


Yoshi  (D 26770)

May 28, 2003, 12:04 PM
Post #13 of 40 (3692 views)
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Re: [BikerBabe] At what altitude do you go directly to the silver handle. [In reply to] Can't Post

my personal hard deck is 1500 if I have a mal... I usually dump around 3000-3500 feet as I have a crossfire that snivels consistantly for 800 feet. if I had nothing out then I would go streight to reserve around 1500-2000 feet..I beleive the reccomended hard deck in the sims is 1800 for c-d licence holders..that may include b licences but I cant remember..
-yoshi


VanillaSkyGirl

May 28, 2003, 12:29 PM
Post #14 of 40 (3664 views)
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Re: [d604] At what altitude do you go directly to the silver handle. [In reply to] Can't Post

This is an excellent question! Thank you for making me rethink things now that I am no longer a student and trying to calculate my pull time according to my dive plans and/or snivel times. I just began pulling lower over the weekend, and I was pulling between 4000-3000 (3000 in a group track dive because I couldn't see everyone & thought that maybe someone had floated above me, so I tracked very hard and far).
Since I am thinking of getting a spectre and will be loading it very lightly, the snivel takes foreeeeever. Therefore, I am thinking that if I ever foolishly find myself still in freefall between 1500-2000, I will go for silver. Of course, I hope that this never happens and that I will always pull way before then. Unimpressed


EricaH  (D License)

May 28, 2003, 12:37 PM
Post #15 of 40 (3648 views)
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Re: [d604] At what altitude do you go directly to the silver handle. [In reply to] Can't Post

My 1:1 wingloaded Spectre takes average 1K to open & i've had a 1.4k snivel - no way I'd risk a longer one closer than 1.8k. Course, being a fairly new jumper, hopefully I've pulled before 2.


happythoughts  (D License)

May 28, 2003, 12:58 PM
Post #16 of 40 (3615 views)
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Re: [d604] At what altitude do you go directly to the silver handle. [In reply to] Can't Post

A problem that most people don't consider, but... emergency plane exits. The airplane is at 2K and develops trouble, you are at 1500ft when you exit. Go for your reserve immediately. Remember - you would not have very much air speed yet, your main would open slower. You would probably not be stable either.


relyon  (D 18973)

May 28, 2003, 12:59 PM
Post #17 of 40 (3613 views)
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Re: [d604] At what altitude do you go directly to the silver handle. [In reply to] Can't Post

I go for my pullout deployed tailpocketed Lightning main every time from any altitude, no exceptions.

Bob


CanuckInUSA  (D 26396)

May 28, 2003, 1:09 PM
Post #18 of 40 (3597 views)
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Re: [BikerBabe] At what altitude do you go directly to the silver handle. [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Well, I checked what I WANT to do, which is 2000 or lower.

I think you guys down in NM as well as us in CO (because of the high altitude at which we jump at, the air is thinner and our canopies snivel longer) must be going for silver if we find ourselves at 2k with nothing out (especially if we're jumping a cypres).

In reply to:
However, realistically, if you realize you're low, I have a feeling that most people will do what muscle memory and possibly hundreds or thousands of jumps experience and built-up reflexes tell them to do, which is go for the main.

This is very true and all the more reason to reherse going for silver every once in a while so that it's in our brains. Because our bodies want to do what we've trained it to do jump after jump (initiating our main canopy pull sequence).


(This post was edited by CanuckInUSA on May 28, 2003, 1:10 PM)


d604  (D 604)

May 28, 2003, 2:28 PM
Post #19 of 40 (3530 views)
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Re: [d604] At what altitude do you go directly to the silver handle. [In reply to] Can't Post

Excellent responses, I guess its time to respond to myself, I was waiting to see what some of the response would be.

Im in the 1501 2000 category for 2 main reasons, one I have a Cypres, and two if Im already below my decision altitude it only makes sense to go to the reserve. My decision altitude is 1800, my main activation altitude is between 2500 and 3000. BTW. The main is usually a Stiletto 135, or a South African copy the Blade Runner 135, both can and do regularly snivel for 500 800

After reading the posts I have a few additional comments.

1. The (Expert) Cypres is made to activate at 750 in the belly to earth position, usually when some ones canopy is in the process of opening the jumper is in a stand up position and the Cypres can activate at around 1000, this might be a factor if you dump out below 1500.
2. Similar to above those student/novices that are jumping the FXC 12000 J should be activating above 2500 (if the unit is set just above a 1000) since this AAD might activate on any opening below 1500 above the preset altitude. Ex. AAD set to 1100 therefore; main activation above 2600, or you might see the reserve out behind you.
3. Muscle memory, I try to include this in my emergency planning so that if (when) I find myself cruising through 1800 with the pilot chute still in the pocket I will (hopefully) hit the silver handle with out hesitation. Note, since I included this as part of my emergency procedures visualization about 1000 jumps ago I have not gone through this altitude in free fall, but I have snivelled down just below it, a few times.
4. happythoughts brought up a good point, AC emergencies, for me any exit below 2000 would be a silver handle jump, at least with the knowledge I know now.
5. Maintaining altitude awareness is the best defence from having to implement his plan, but its good to be prepared.

Sean


winsor  (D 13715)

May 28, 2003, 7:31 PM
Post #20 of 40 (3404 views)
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Re: [d604] At what altitude do you go directly to the silver handle. [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
This poll is if you find yourself in freefall and low. What is your altitude that you would not try the main first and go directly to your reserve.

The last two options are more for students and novices. Note, Im not asking for tandem minimums as that would be different (I hope) and I dont want the poll skewed by tandems.

Please explain your response.

Thanks,
Sean

To some extent it depends on what I'm jumping and why I'm low.

I practice finding handles on every jump, often in freefall, so I have the kinesthetics wired.

Many years ago I couldn't find a handle (old style PUD) as quickly as I wanted, and was under reserve by 1,900 ft., with no cutaway pulled - straight to silver.

On cllimbout I watch the altimeter unwind, and note the altitude at which I will go for the main instead of the reserve. It's not a matter of reliability as much as not wanting to find myself under a ground-hungry Class 5 canopy 450 feet over 100 foot pine trees, with power lines to one side and a construction site to the other. I've twice left an airplane that had an engine go massively inop on climbout, and it was only the luck of the draw the we had plenty of altitude (and an interesting spot) each time.

If I am low because I'm brainlocking, I assume I will be on a roll and simply go for the main as usual. I would have to be in heads-up mode to go for the open-NOW canopy.

A complex decision tree is ill advised for safety-related issues, and switching gears reactively from main to reserve mode can eat up as much altitude as can a pretty good snivel (I don't jump anything that takes 1,000 feet to open - or opens in less than 100 ft., for that matter). I've only had ground rush in freefall a couple of times (outside of BASE), and even then used the main.

I really don't have a game plan that involves intentionally pulling low, so finding myself in the basement is likely to be an unplanned event, and the only policy I would apply to the situation is the old standby - don't go in with any handles unpulled (or keep pulling handles 'til your goggles fill with blood, as the case may be).


Blue skies,

Winsor


rgoper  (C 32349)

May 28, 2003, 8:26 PM
Post #21 of 40 (3373 views)
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Re: [d604] At what altitude do you go directly to the silver handle. [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
This poll is if you find yourself in freefall and low.

hasn't happened to me yet, but it could. my plan is to go directly to my reserve at 1000" AGL if this situation ever does occur, and i'm not immune to making mistakes.


Mad47

May 28, 2003, 8:57 PM
Post #22 of 40 (3351 views)
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Re: [d604] At what altitude do you go directly to the silver handle. [In reply to] Can't Post

Never happened to me yet but I would go straight to reserve if I'm below 1.5K to avoid the possibility of two out due to CYPRES fire as well as finding myself with malfunctioning main below the hard deck. However, I think that decision at what altitude to go straight to silver must depend on opening speed of main, type and calibration of AAD (if any), geographical factor (as was already mentioned) and experience.


(This post was edited by Mad47 on May 28, 2003, 8:58 PM)


CrazyL  (D 17699)

May 28, 2003, 9:06 PM
Post #23 of 40 (3346 views)
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Re: [d604] At what altitude do you go directly to the silver handle. [In reply to] Can't Post

I have chosen 501' to 1000' to pull the silver handle if I have not yet pulled my main and found myself low and in freefall. Although, 1500' is my descision altitude for choosing to fly the main canopy to landing or to release the main and pull the reserve.Hopefully I am never surprised to be at 1000' in freefall. I have found myself in the past pulling low due to being on zoo loads and being under people while tracking away.(Low being 1500',deciding to stay with the main by 1000'). I would'nt suggest pulling low, but,pull. [reply]


Jumpnfun2  (D 25224)

May 28, 2003, 9:53 PM
Post #24 of 40 (3330 views)
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Re: [d604] At what altitude do you go directly to the silver handle. [In reply to] Can't Post

My main takes 600' - 800'ft. to open.
I jump a Batwing116 and a camera.
If I'm at 2,000ft...that would mean I would have to decide at 1,400 or below what to do with a main malfunction. I do not have an AAD. I am a fanatic about watching my alti. I use a dytter. Could I ever find myself in this situation? Of course. We are all human. Shit happens. I've had a total, and went for the silver at 2,600ft. I'd been working on it from 4,500ft....my life is worth more than a $45 repack.


Sue


Premier Tonto  (D 515)
Moderator
May 28, 2003, 11:44 PM
Post #25 of 40 (3301 views)
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Re: [d604] At what altitude do you go directly to the silver handle. [In reply to] Can't Post

Well, I went to India to find myself and failed. I don't want to "find myself" in freefall at any altitude. I prefer to know where I am, and mostly, I do. I may be out by a second or so some days when distracted by stuff. I do mainly AFF and pull soon after depending on the issue. My deployment altitudes range from 4500 to 2000 ft, but tend to be on the higher side. I'd never go straight for silver. (I have a puff) Pulling your main is a habit, and the longer you jump - the harder it is to break habits. I'd prefer to start early and go through the process. (and perhaps my Cypres will intervene one day - but it hasn't in the last 10 years.)

t


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