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Tips for packing a new canopy?

 

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20_kN

Feb 18, 2018, 9:40 PM
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Tips for packing a new canopy? Can't Post

Any tips for packing a new canopy? I got a new canopy and daaaamn that thing is a pain in the ass to pack. I have sat down with just about every packer that works at my DZ and had them show me what they do but still I have trouble S folding the thing without it inflating into a ball. I have tried doing one S fold on the top 3/4 of the canopy, inserting that into the bag, and then S folding the tail into the bag after most of the canopy is already in the bag (not sure what that technique is called). That works great for used canopies, but I am finding that once I stuff the first S fold into the bag, the fold literally just disappears as the canopy inflates. With used canopies the first S fold actually stays in place leaving a spot for me to put the second S folded tail into. But with new canopies that fold disappears as soon as I put it into the bag which means I am in essence just putting the tail into the bag and closing it. It's not even really S folded at that point as much as it is just stuffed into the bag.


LeeroyJenkins  (D License)

Feb 18, 2018, 10:41 PM
Post #2 of 49 (5030 views)
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Re: [20_kN] Tips for packing a new canopy? [In reply to] Can't Post

Once you do the first S fold use your other knee (not the one holding down the S fold) to make an area between your legs to do the last s fold


sundevil777  (D License)

Feb 19, 2018, 4:21 AM
Post #3 of 49 (4922 views)
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Re: [20_kN] Tips for packing a new canopy? [In reply to] Can't Post

Try doing some research on youtube of the "psycho pack" method. It is best to put an extension of about a foot long on the bridle attachment to the canopy if you psycho pack. Precision parachutes used to recommend this method, even for their tiny swooping canopies, but it seems their website is down. You can also get the opinion of many on this site by searching "psycho pack", but realize some people confused the really old style roll or flat packing with psycho packing.

Psycho packing is all about making it incredibly easy to get it in the bag.


Hunterbeav  (D License)

Feb 19, 2018, 5:11 AM
Post #4 of 49 (4864 views)
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Re: [20_kN] Tips for packing a new canopy? [In reply to] Can't Post

20_kN wrote:
Any tips for packing a new canopy? I got a new canopy and daaaamn that thing is a pain in the ass to pack. I have sat down with just about every packer that works at my DZ and had them show me what they do but still I have trouble S folding the thing without it inflating into a ball. I have tried doing one S fold on the top 3/4 of the canopy, inserting that into the bag, and then S folding the tail into the bag after most of the canopy is already in the bag (not sure what that technique is called). That works great for used canopies, but I am finding that once I stuff the first S fold into the bag, the fold literally just disappears as the canopy inflates. With used canopies the first S fold actually stays in place leaving a spot for me to put the second S folded tail into. But with new canopies that fold disappears as soon as I put it into the bag which means I am in essence just putting the tail into the bag and closing it. It's not even really S folded at that point as much as it is just stuffed into the bag.

Just have the packers do it for about 300 more jumps and then it should be easier to pack...Wink


wmw999  (D 6296)

Feb 19, 2018, 5:29 AM
Post #5 of 49 (4835 views)
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Re: [20_kN] Tips for packing a new canopy? [In reply to] Can't Post

If you're determined to pack it yourself (which I agree with), then take it home and do it a few times without time pressure or the problem of having to jump a shitty pack job. It'll get easier; first, because of the practice, second, because you'll be manipulating the fabric, which is what makes it lie down and play dead eventually. And no one will see you taking 45 minutes to pack that fucking-piece-of-shit-that-won't-behave (those are the right words).

No, you won't do that enough times to make a huge difference, but it will still make a difference. Really. I'm deep enough into a new canopy to have it be reasonably easy to pack, about 50 jumps.

Another thing is if you're packing it into the "right" size container, it'll be harder than if it's the "comfort-sized" container (i.e. a size larger).

And yes, roll packing makes a big difference too. As does paying a packer (which is what I did when I was at a bigway event). As does not being in a hurry between loads, so that you can take your time and not worry about missing the dirt dive or whatever.

Wendy P.


Justincblount

Feb 19, 2018, 8:41 AM
Post #6 of 49 (4704 views)
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Re: [20_kN] Tips for packing a new canopy? [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm gonna assume a pro pack method. Lay on the parachute like normal to get the initial air out, then iron it out with your forearms while tucking the fabric underneath as you go. Do the whole S-fold, get your knees in front of it and lay on it a little with your chest, get a knee on the bag grommet, tuck only the corner into the bag... then get the other grommet under your other knee while holding the s-fold together, get the other corner in. With both knees down on the bag grommets, it will be much easier to push the canopy in while holding the s-fold together. Then turn the bag up and roll the small part of the s-fold in, I do it by grabbing the bag flap and the small s-fold at the same time and kind of pushing them down into the bag, which also gets the grommets closer to the rubber band. If it's too puffy when you go to stretch the bands through the grommets, you can give it a little knee squeeze to get some air out and keep it from inflating. That's what helps me, at least. I have less than 100 pack jobs, but the canopy I practice with is pretty new.


Maddingo

Feb 19, 2018, 11:05 AM
Post #7 of 49 (4582 views)
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Re: [Justincblount] Tips for packing a new canopy? [In reply to] Can't Post

Or just drop the whole S-fold thing and roll it up. It opens the same as an S-fold if not better (jumped it a couple of times) and there is much more control over the fabric, I am getting use to it now as I have the same slippery problem with never canopies that wil burst out on sides. Expect weird doubtful looks on the DZ.

What I am talking about and why it is better:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdXHiLWI1AM


(This post was edited by Maddingo on Feb 19, 2018, 11:13 AM)


LeeroyJenkins  (D License)

Feb 19, 2018, 11:28 AM
Post #8 of 49 (4536 views)
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Re: [Maddingo] Tips for packing a new canopy? [In reply to] Can't Post

Click https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdXHiLWI1AM


Maddingo

Feb 19, 2018, 12:10 PM
Post #9 of 49 (4493 views)
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Re: [LeeroyJenkins] Tips for packing a new canopy? [In reply to] Can't Post

Laugh


Mark.Carroll  (B 44291)

Feb 19, 2018, 2:10 PM
Post #10 of 49 (4414 views)
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Re: [Maddingo] Tips for packing a new canopy? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey this rolling method looks really interesting. Now, normally I would cast a skeptical eye on such an unusual method, but the fact that Jay M uses it lends a lot of credibility to it.

This question was asked before, but does anyone know if PD approves this method, or if other highly experienced jumpers use it? Maybe I need to email PD.


Maddingo

Feb 19, 2018, 2:13 PM
Post #11 of 49 (4404 views)
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Re: [Mark.Carroll] Tips for packing a new canopy? [In reply to] Can't Post

I was shown this method by a master rigger when I was still a student.


(This post was edited by Maddingo on Feb 19, 2018, 2:14 PM)


gowlerk  (C 3196)

Feb 19, 2018, 2:18 PM
Post #12 of 49 (4389 views)
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Re: [Mark.Carroll] Tips for packing a new canopy? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
This question was asked before, but does anyone know if PD approves this method, or if other highly experienced jumpers use it? Maybe I need to email PD.

Are the lines in the middle and orderly with good tension? Is the slider properly stowed? Are the lines stowed properly? If you can answer yes to these questions it does not matter how the canopy was folded into the bag.


tikl68  (C 35249)

Feb 19, 2018, 8:01 PM
Post #13 of 49 (4225 views)
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Re: [20_kN] Tips for packing a new canopy? [In reply to] Can't Post

It would be easier to show in person as there are subtle things that you cant explain on the internet. I am one of the people who teach the AFF packing course at my home DZ. One of my students had to take her packing course on a brand new student canopy. I showed her some techniques specific to dealing with new "slickery" canopies and she had no problems, only took about 5 hours for the whole course. When she got her new canopy at around 80 jumps most people were surprised she did not struggle with it. When they made comments she would tell them who she took her packing course with and they would get it.


Justincblount

Feb 19, 2018, 8:51 PM
Post #14 of 49 (4199 views)
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Re: [20_kN] Tips for packing a new canopy? [In reply to] Can't Post

I saw that video when I was trying to learn how to pack, and I liked the idea, since I was having trouble with the s-fold... but is it PD approved? Not a chance. It will just get lumped in with the psycho pack method, which I heard was how people packed before the s-fold method, so it's considered outdated. I had to drop the idea, simply because I want a job packing in the future.


Blis  (D License)

Feb 19, 2018, 9:03 PM
Post #15 of 49 (4193 views)
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Re: [Justincblount] Tips for packing a new canopy? [In reply to] Can't Post

Justincblount wrote:
I saw that video when I was trying to learn how to pack, and I liked the idea, since I was having trouble with the s-fold... but is it PD approved? Not a chance. It will just get lumped in with the psycho pack method, which I heard was how people packed before the s-fold method, so it's considered outdated. I had to drop the idea, simply because I want a job packing in the future.

Different packing techniques are just tools in your toolbox, having more tools means you have better chance of actually using the right one for the job. Canopy shape affects things, crossbraced require bit different style than your 260sqft student canopy.

If you're stuck on just one PD approved style you will have a bad day as a packer when someone gives you something "exotic" to pack...


fanya  (D License)

Feb 19, 2018, 9:23 PM
Post #16 of 49 (4185 views)
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Re: [20_kN] Tips for packing a new canopy? [In reply to] Can't Post

What is the method called where after you get the triangle you fold the "ears" on top of the canopy and then do the s-folds? w-something, wuri or something? Way easier to control the fabric than the conventional method of rolling it under. I've used it for a few thousand pack jobs.


20_kN

Feb 19, 2018, 11:37 PM
Post #17 of 49 (4135 views)
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Re: [Maddingo] Tips for packing a new canopy? [In reply to] Can't Post

Maddingo wrote:
Or just drop the whole S-fold thing and roll it up. It opens the same as an S-fold if not better (jumped it a couple of times) and there is much more control over the fabric, I am getting use to it now as I have the same slippery problem with never canopies that wil burst out on sides. Expect weird doubtful looks on the DZ.

What I am talking about and why it is better:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdXHiLWI1AM

cool video and that looks like a great technique, but it does not seem workable on a new canopy. I tried it several times and it was outright impossible to roll my new canopy into anything that even remotely resembled anything shown in that video. The thing is so slippery that I cant even get it to roll once let alone several times.

I think I answered my own question. How do you pack a new canopy? You take it to the packers or live with the fact that the pack job will be less than stellar. Unsure Those are the two choices. So far the reverse S or whatever the hell you call it is the only option that's half way workable. Do one S fold, put it in the bag, then tuck the tail in the bag. It works and I can get it in the bag, it just doesent look that great and in the end I think the canopy is more or less just stuffed into the bag rather than actually folded. Any S folds that I do completely disappear as the fabric balloons up with air while putting it in the bag.

I am curious why people say to kneel on the grommets. That seems like a concerning idea to me because every time you lay down you're pushing your knees back. Every time you move around, you're moving your knees around. So every time you move, so does the slider if you're on the grommets. I find the grommets and then put my knees below the grommets instead of on them. Then if my knees move, the slider should hopefully be unaffected since I'm not actually kneeling on it.


(This post was edited by 20_kN on Feb 19, 2018, 11:50 PM)


Maddingo

Feb 19, 2018, 11:48 PM
Post #18 of 49 (4120 views)
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Re: [fanya] Tips for packing a new canopy? [In reply to] Can't Post

@fanya Haha this is funny, I also use this. I use unconventional methods I suppose Sly

This folding under eliminates twisting of the material and lines because it is a one clean under fold.

This PD dude uses it at 1 minute mark:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyM_LkW8DVI

@20kn: Do you properly close it? I always get reminded that you need to really roll the tail tight. Especially new canopies before you put it on the ground.


(This post was edited by Maddingo on Feb 20, 2018, 12:10 AM)


skydude2000  (B 5843)

Feb 20, 2018, 3:40 AM
Post #19 of 49 (4017 views)
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Re: [fanya] Tips for packing a new canopy? [In reply to] Can't Post

I believe that method is called the Wolmari pack job. I found this video I'm going to try using to pack my new X-Fire 153.

https://youtu.be/hGyvLfdTH1k


mark  (D 6108)

Feb 20, 2018, 5:27 AM
Post #20 of 49 (3954 views)
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Re: [Maddingo] Tips for packing a new canopy? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I always get reminded that you need to really roll the tail tight. Especially new canopies before you put it on the ground.

I never do this. Even with new canopies.

-Mark


fanya  (D License)

Feb 20, 2018, 5:37 AM
Post #21 of 49 (3949 views)
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Re: [skydude2000] Tips for packing a new canopy? [In reply to] Can't Post

Maddingo wrote:
@fanya Haha this is funny, I also use this. I use unconventional methods I suppose Sly

This folding under eliminates twisting of the material and lines because it is a one clean under fold.

This PD dude uses it at 1 minute mark:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyM_LkW8DVI
This is similar but not the same, the guy is still folding the ears under.
skydude2000 wrote:
I believe that method is called the Wolmari pack job.
This is the correct name, thanks!

A little googlefu which give us this thread turns this up https://web.archive.org/.../www.jump.to/wolmari

I find packjob easier to control with this method, also the theory behind it is that it puts the fabric to the back of the tail, instead of in front of the nose. He touches on that in his introduction paragraphs.


Justincblount

Feb 20, 2018, 12:23 PM
Post #22 of 49 (3725 views)
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Re: [20_kN] Tips for packing a new canopy? [In reply to] Can't Post

20_kN wrote:
Any S folds that I do completely disappear as the fabric balloons up with air while putting it in the bag.

That makes it sound like you're letting go of the s-fold. You should be able to get one corner in, then hold the other corner together with one hand while you get the other grommet under your other knee. Have you tried that, several times?


Wow, that looked scary when he started doing those stows. People were probably saying he can't pack for shit, so they disable comments and ratings! I hate that, it's narcissistic. People have to jump with these guys. His method of folding is interesting, but I don't know enough to judge, I need to see the criticisms they blocked. The beauty of Youtube is being able to cut through the bullshit.


tikl68  (C 35249)

Feb 20, 2018, 9:49 PM
Post #23 of 49 (3540 views)
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Re: [20_kN] Tips for packing a new canopy? [In reply to] Can't Post

ok I will try to explain some of the little things (and it takes all of them) that help,in my opinion, I was also a full time packer for 4 years.

One of the important aspects is to not cut corners in technique.

When rolling the tail, how you roll it is important, and how you handle it once it is on the ground when getting the air out while trying to reduce/ consolidate its width,can make or break it.

when you roll the tail concentrate on the top,where the label is first. make sure to match the two seams together and actually fold them over together using both hands and not just tuck one under the other, it takes a little patients and dexterity. I use my middle finger and wrap it around the group of lines and let the canopy hang like in a hook in order to use my thumb and first finger on my right hand, to help my left hand,fold,pinch,fold,pinch, about 3 or 4 times.

How you fold the bottom of the tail is also important. I use my left hand and again match up the two seams, and fold both of them over,use the top of my left thigh to pin down the fold,and grab the fold with my thumb and first finger pick up the fold and fold it over again, repeat about 4 or 5 times. The first fold should be about an inch.

When done with the folding let the canopy hang. Use the webbing between your thumb and first finger on your right hand, with your hand open to hold the top of the tail fold in place by sliding your hand towards the slider grommets. With the canopy hanging,still holding the bottom of the tail fold with your left hand, spread your remaining fingers open and gently push into the canopy making small adjustments from side to side until you find the happy center. Set the canopy on the ground.

Yes this has a lot to do with getting a brand new canopy in the bag, patients grass hopper. Packing has as much to do with felling as it does seeing, and understanding what you are feeling.

Once the canopy is on the ground the biggest mistake people make is they handle it too much. You should be able to get the air out of it and consolidate it with about 3 attempts. I dont kneel ON the grommets in order to hold it in place, I put my knees on the sides and pinch tho the center. When you push the material towards the center to consolidate it,be careful as you slide your hands up to push again towards the tail that is on the floor,dont use a lot of pressure on the canopy(when sliding up) or you will pull the label part of the tail fold out of your knees and expose the slider grommets, and its down hill from there.

Once you get the air out and the width is closer to the size of the opening of the bag, before I get up off the canopy put one of your fore arms under your chest on the canopy about armpit level and use the other hand to slide under the canopy and slide your hand towards the top where your pilot chute is attached, pushing the canopy in a little more all the way to the top, switch fore arms and repeat on the other side. Now before you get up take your dominant hand, slide it under the canopy,some where about arm pit level, and you should be able to feel where the tail fold is.Clamp it closed. Now you can get up. Use your other hand and place it on the canopy about half way between where you have you other hand clamped and the top of the label, and make the fold. If your lap/top of your thighs are in the way you can not push the canopy all the way down there for not finishing the (S) fold and again it goes down hill from there.

At this point it is easier to kneel/balance on 2 folds than 3. It takes some attention to where you are kneeling. Feel where the canopy is trying to get out from under your knees and make subtle adjustments by slightly changing where you kneel on the canopy.

Once you are balanced take the flap of the D-bag and slide one corner under the bottom of the fold on the floor by carefully leaning over to one side and pulling up on the the corner of the fold on the floor. Dont put the whole flap under, it ends up being too much of an angle when doing the other side, you only need enough to hold it in place when you put pressure on it with your knee while you do the same thing on the other side with the other corner of the D-bag flap but this time pull/slide the corner of the flap further, up to where the flap meets the rest of the D-bag. Then go back to the other side,reach across with your arm and grab the 2 folds on the corner and provide resistance on the canopy while pulling the tab of the D-bag towards your body. Once you are to this point support the flap and stand the D-bag up between your thighs to hold the bag closed while you stick the last fold, at the label down into the bag.
Easy money. I will shoot a video covering this and PM you the link.
It takes some dexterity and a little bit of sensitivity with your hands and knowing how to aggressively finesse it.


tikl68  (C 35249)

Feb 20, 2018, 11:05 PM
Post #24 of 49 (3518 views)
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Re: [20_kN] Tips for packing a new canopy? [In reply to] Can't Post

PM sent. Hope it helps.


20_kN

Feb 20, 2018, 11:14 PM
Post #25 of 49 (3515 views)
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Re: [] Tips for packing a new canopy? [In reply to] Can't Post

Is there any disadvantage to doing one S fold, bagging the top 2/3rds of the canopy and then putting the second S fold into the tail as you insert it into the bag? I find that method far easier than trying to S fold the entire canopy on the ground and then inserting it into the bag. It makes me question why anyone would S fold the entire canopy outside of the bag if you dont have to.

Also, as you're flaking the canopy material to the outside between the line groups, eventually you get to the brake lines. What do you do with the material connected to the brake lines? I see some people fold it to the outside of the canopy, the same as the material between the linegroups, and some people wrap the brake line material inside toward the center of the canopy around the lines. That makes it look nicer, but now you're wrapping material up in the lines which is what I thought you're specifically trying to avoid?

Watch here at 2:15. She takes the brake material and wraps it around the lines which seems like just asking for a lineover.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bVyAfDEAeU

By contrast, watch at 8:35. He folds the brake material out and away from the lines, the exact opposite of what's done in the first video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIB6XQ3bpJk

So which is correct?


(This post was edited by 20_kN on Feb 20, 2018, 11:21 PM)


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