Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Wing Suit Flying:
Aurora container

 

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skow  (D 3911)

Jan 25, 2017, 10:39 PM
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Aurora container Can't Post

Don't know if this was discussed here already, but what do you guys think?
Attachments: 16265779_10154496534753732_8087285683260839243_n.jpg (89.6 KB)


hjumper33  (F 1)

Jan 26, 2017, 12:17 AM
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Re: [skow] Aurora container [In reply to] Can't Post

Looks similar to something Tony has been using for a couple of years, Im assuming that it was probably developed with him.


I can see the thinking behind it, and why it would slightly increase performance and safety. Maybe the equivalent of a comp velo with the 100 jump lines, or Jebs low pull rig with infinity. Designed for a small very specific group of pilots. They'll sell some for sure, but id bet youll see mostly sponsored pilots jumping them.


skow  (D 3911)

Jan 26, 2017, 12:35 AM
Post #3 of 36 (15504 views)
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Re: [hjumper33] Aurora container [In reply to] Can't Post

Haven't tried it, but I'm a bit worried about PC placement, as it is in different place than normally. Could potentially cause some troubles when you get used to it and switch later to base rig.


Pobrause

Jan 26, 2017, 12:49 AM
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Re: [skow] Aurora container [In reply to] Can't Post

As there are already a number of ws specific base rigs with the boc in the exact same position you could easily get around this problem.


skow  (D 3911)

Jan 26, 2017, 2:07 AM
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Re: [Pobrause] Aurora container [In reply to] Can't Post

Wouldn't say it's in the exact same position. Here it looks to be much more moved up on the top of the container. At least when compared to Stream, LD3 and JackDaw.

Anyway, I like the idea of WS specific container also for skydiving. Especially with UL canopies making recently their way to skydiving world.


(This post was edited by skow on Jan 26, 2017, 2:10 AM)


Pobrause

Jan 26, 2017, 2:34 AM
Post #6 of 36 (15433 views)
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Re: [skow] Aurora container [In reply to] Can't Post

I know what you mean but you can shove the pc handle all the way down, so it really isn't that much of a difference...
Anyway, I'd love to try this container out without a WS. Streamlined rigs would be handy in any angle/FF jump as well. Depending on the tightness of the collar I also don't see a problem for FS.

I wonder how you fill the corners of the container without a freepacked base canopy, though. Might be some thicker foam there like in a curve, to keep it in shape?


photognat

Jan 26, 2017, 6:02 AM
Post #7 of 36 (15342 views)
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Re: [skow] Aurora container [In reply to] Can't Post

The BOC looks like it's almost in the same position as the Jackdaw.


Melissa126  (D 33235)

Jan 27, 2017, 5:12 AM
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Re: [Pobrause] Aurora container [In reply to] Can't Post

I reached out to Sunpath with some questions about this container. One of them being that when i'm not doing working (belly) jumps that I like to wingsuit-and what their thoughts were about me using this for both.
Their response was "This container is designed specifically for Wing Suit applications and we would not advise that the container be used for any other discipline"


Bluhdow  (D 35556)

Jan 27, 2017, 9:01 AM
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Re: [Melissa126] Aurora container [In reply to] Can't Post

Smart move. They shrunk their potential market by about 90% with that statement.


Chris-Ottawa  (A License)

Jan 27, 2017, 9:25 AM
Post #10 of 36 (14867 views)
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Re: [Bluhdow] Aurora container [In reply to] Can't Post

Bluhdow wrote:
Smart move. They shrunk their potential market by about 90% with that statement.

I think it was purely to limit frivolous lawsuits by excluding it from being used in a manner that it was not specifically designed around. Or maybe they had issues in testing that made them confident that it really is a bad idea.

My money is on the first option though...it is the USA afterall.


gowlerk  (C 3196)

Jan 27, 2017, 10:07 AM
Post #11 of 36 (14843 views)
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Bluhdow wrote:
Smart move. They shrunk their potential market by about 90% with that statement.

No they didn't. They can still sell Javelins to those people. The Aurora is simply a purpose modified Javelin. It's not a new H/C at all. Sunpath did the correct thing by giving a truthful answer. Sunpath is a market leader that always does things the best way they can. I don't believe they feel the need to build market share by promoting this specialty product into general use.

Now if only Airtec would ship the WS CYPRES they starting bragging about a year ago they could join the ranks of first rate companies like Sunpath.


Pobrause

Jan 27, 2017, 2:24 PM
Post #12 of 36 (14732 views)
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Re: [Melissa126] Aurora container [In reply to] Can't Post

Interesting to hear the manufacturers opinion, thanks for the info.
But let's be honest. A 100% intended purpose complying use is not going to happen.
I especially like the adjustable laterals for heavy weight xrw jumps, corner free design also is perfect for hopnpops, slim and aerodynamic design for angle jumps... please, somebody buy this thing so I can jump it Angelic

I honestly fail to see the difference between ws carving and ff carving/angle dives when it comes to requirements of the rig. It would be a shame if they gave that answer solely from fear of lawsuits.


dqpacker  (D 32043)

Jan 27, 2017, 3:08 PM
Post #13 of 36 (14694 views)
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Re: [hjumper33] Aurora container [In reply to] Can't Post

hjumper33 wrote:
Looks similar to something Tony has been using for a couple of years, Im assuming that it was probably developed with him.


I can see the thinking behind it, and why it would slightly increase performance and safety. Maybe the equivalent of a comp velo with the 100 jump lines, or Jebs low pull rig with infinity. Designed for a small very specific group of pilots. They'll sell some for sure, but id bet youll see mostly sponsored pilots jumping them.

Jebs rig was from mirage not VSE.


hjumper33  (F 1)

Jan 28, 2017, 2:03 AM
Post #14 of 36 (14563 views)
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Re: [dqpacker] Aurora container [In reply to] Can't Post

dqpacker wrote:
hjumper33 wrote:
Looks similar to something Tony has been using for a couple of years, Im assuming that it was probably developed with him.


I can see the thinking behind it, and why it would slightly increase performance and safety. Maybe the equivalent of a comp velo with the 100 jump lines, or Jebs low pull rig with infinity. Designed for a small very specific group of pilots. They'll sell some for sure, but id bet youll see mostly sponsored pilots jumping them.

Jebs rig was from mirage not VSE.

Ah, you sir, are of course correct. I wonder how many of those were actually ordered. My over under is 10.


Bluhdow  (D 35556)

Jan 28, 2017, 8:54 AM
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I'll take the under. I know someone who has been trying to sell one (barely) used for a few months with zero interest.

It's just too small of a market. How many people are in a situation where they need a large, free-packed BASE main and a tiny 100+/- PD optimum reserve?

I think this Aurora is a bit better in that sense. But if what they say (strictly WS only) is to be believed then who is going to buy it? People who wingsuit 100% exclusively (which is rare in my experience) and people who can afford to have a second WS dedicated rig. The second scenario is less rare...but in order to justify an Aurora over a Javelin, Mirage, or any other normal rig it has to be a significantly better design for wingsuiting. Otherwise why not just buy a normal container with a long bridle? It will have better resale value and more range of use.

Personally, I think manufacturers are going a bit overboard with "WS specific" designs. Are they better for wingsuiting? Sure, but by how much? My Mirage and original Sabre work really well for everything from big suits, to tracking suits, to freeflying, to belly jumps.


gowlerk  (C 3196)

Jan 28, 2017, 9:17 AM
Post #16 of 36 (14424 views)
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Quote:
Personally, I think manufacturers are going a bit overboard with "WS specific" designs.

I have zero WS jumps. So my opinion is not worth much. But I largely agree with you on this. With the exception of the AAD problem.


piisfish

Jan 28, 2017, 9:22 AM
Post #17 of 36 (14421 views)
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Re: [Bluhdow] Aurora container [In reply to] Can't Post

If you can affoz2 rigs, then you can have a great wingsuit rig (provided it is great) and another rig adapted to your other discipline. I would say : why not :-) even if this specific model is not up to my taste. At least the wrinkles on the picture are realistic


Johnkelley  (A 70814)

Jan 30, 2017, 2:50 PM
Post #18 of 36 (13946 views)
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I think the part that everyone is forgetting about is if you are jumping enough to justify a wingsuit specific rig, you are more than likely a load organizer or a coach (or a sponsored athlete). That means you'll probably have at least two rigs to turn loads at a larger event (unless you pay for a really fast packer). Also if you want to do ANY other type of jumping, you would need to bring a normal container fit for all other disciplines. This means you will need at least 3 rigs at all times to keep up with loads as well as be able to jump something else other than wingsuits. Again this is only my opinion, but I feel that the market for a wingsuit specific rig is so small, I am curious why they even bothered in the first place.


pms07  (D 7571)

Jan 30, 2017, 5:24 PM
Post #19 of 36 (13856 views)
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Re: [Bluhdow] Aurora container [In reply to] Can't Post

Bluhdow wrote:

Personally, I think manufacturers are going a bit overboard with "WS specific" designs. Are they better for wingsuiting? Sure, but by how much? My Mirage and original Sabre work really well for everything from big suits, to tracking suits, to freeflying, to belly jumps.

I welcome manufacturers exploring WS specific designs and options. Thinking about past gear innovations, I remember the first wonderhogs and SST rigs, the first days of hand deploy pilot chutes, 3 ring release systems, ram air canopies, advent of slider reefing systems, the introduction of the CYPRES AAD, etc. Most of these in their infancy were not refined and took many years to arrive at the awesome gear choices we have available today. Likewise, I hope the introduction of the Aurora and ideas other gear manufacturers are working on will continue and make their way to market. You get the option to buy what you want. What "work really well" could be eclipsed by some new WS gear innovation. Some want options to choose from and appreciate innovation.


johnmatrix  (E 9999)

Jan 30, 2017, 5:29 PM
Post #20 of 36 (13851 views)
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Re: [Johnkelley] Aurora container [In reply to] Can't Post

Some people are spending thousands on the latest flying carpet each year to get any edge they can in performance events, I suspect that having a WS-specific rig that provides better aerodynamics would be on their shopping list too if it definitely worked.


skow  (D 3911)

Jan 30, 2017, 10:36 PM
Post #21 of 36 (13737 views)
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johnmatrix wrote:
...having a WS-specific rig that provides better aerodynamics would be on their shopping list too if it definitely worked.

... or at least looked cool Tongue


sammielu  (D 33923)

Jan 31, 2017, 12:47 AM
Post #22 of 36 (13675 views)
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Sun Path is presenting a seminar on the development of the Aurora at PIA Symposium. Sounds interesting!


johnmatrix  (E 9999)

Jan 31, 2017, 2:00 AM
Post #23 of 36 (13656 views)
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Re: [skow] Aurora container [In reply to] Can't Post

skow wrote:
johnmatrix wrote:
...having a WS-specific rig that provides better aerodynamics would be on their shopping list too if it definitely worked.

... or at least looked cool Tongue

Well I do think it achieves that much. :)


WickedWingsuits  (D 30916)

Jan 31, 2017, 5:41 AM
Post #24 of 36 (13589 views)
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Re: [Johnkelley] Aurora container [In reply to] Can't Post

Johnkelley wrote:
I think the part that everyone is forgetting about is if you are jumping enough to justify a wingsuit specific rig, you are more than likely a load organizer or a coach (or a sponsored athlete). That means you'll probably have at least two rigs to turn loads at a larger event (unless you pay for a really fast packer). Also if you want to do ANY other type of jumping, you would need to bring a normal container fit for all other disciplines. This means you will need at least 3 rigs at all times to keep up with loads as well as be able to jump something else other than wingsuits. Again this is only my opinion, but I feel that the market for a wingsuit specific rig is so small, I am curious why they even bothered in the first place.

The funny thing is I don't know any WS organizer that uses 2 rigs that way. We still have to wait for the group to pack, so what's the point?

When we were doing team training we didn't use 2 rigs either, because we still couldn't beat the plane down in the way that a non-ws team can. To even stand a chance we would have not only needed a second rig but also a second suit. $$$'s

I think this is specifically aimed at performance wingsuiters where a very small % of drag reduction can give a competitive advantage. We take off go pro mounts and remove chest mount alti's to reduce drag, so in theory a streamlined container could make a small difference.


BryanCampau  (D 34469)

Jan 31, 2017, 5:50 AM
Post #25 of 36 (13572 views)
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Haha it definitely doesn't look cool. But it does make sense that if the aerodynamics are truly an improvement then it will be bought so competitors can be at the top of their game. And on the other side of things, it might be pretty beneficial to back flying. I'd like to see the price tag they are going to stick on that ugly thing. I would definitely like to demo one and if the benefits are there then it is worth owning. It would give me a great excuse to never jump without a wingsuit. :) But i'll bet it will be a while before its available for demo or order.


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