Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Swooping and Canopy Control:
Can you share your Flysight swoop data?

 

First page Previous page 1 2 Next page Last page  View All

daffes  (D License)

Nov 3, 2015, 10:23 AM
Post #1 of 32 (12028 views)
Shortcut
Can you share your Flysight swoop data? Can't Post

I've started playing with a Flysight for boosting the learning curve on high performance landings. Having a benchmark for the "ideal" or a "close to ideal" curve to achieve can definitely help.

Any swoopers out there willing to share their data from proud swoops? Mostly interested in 270 degree turns.

Thanks in advance.


hodges  (D 108409)

Nov 4, 2015, 6:02 AM
Post #2 of 32 (11693 views)
Shortcut
Re: [daffes] Can you share your Flysight swoop data? [In reply to] Can't Post

Nice thread. I've been looking for stuff but I haven't found much.

I'm interested in any tips for making the most of training with a flysight.

I'm mostly using mine to evaluate

- Pattern points in different conditions
- IP (altitude and offset from gate in both axis) in different conditions
- Time/technique on double-fronts before adding rotation (does canopy start recovering before rotation is added)
- Timing of each quarter of rotation
- Top vertical speed
- Lowest horizontal speed (i.e. how vertical I got). Not too sure how valuable this is with ground wind speeds
- Roll out height
- Recovery time

I strive for turns like the "good" one in my attachment and try to avoid the "shit" ones.
Attachments: top.png (5.97 KB)


daffes  (D License)

Nov 4, 2015, 7:38 AM
Post #3 of 32 (11638 views)
Shortcut
Re: [hodges] Can you share your Flysight swoop data? [In reply to] Can't Post

Haha thanks Hodges, love the .png distinguishing constant/increasing turn rate. I think it exaggerates a little bit on the second 90' angular speed though :).

Sharing both the csv file and a screenshot of what I consider to be my cleanest swoop so far (which doesn't mean much on my level) to exemplify what I'm looking at.

1) I'm looking from the top view to see if it resembles your .png "Good" guideline
2) I want to see where the top vertical speed happens, I want it to happen towards the end of the turn, so that the canopy only starts recovering after I finish the turn.
3) If you check the green curve (vertical speed) on the screenshot (this.png), around t=-128 I go to breaks, and in t=-117 I reach my top speed. It's bothering me that around t=-122 my vertical speed decreases instead of keeping increasing. This is happening between straight double fronts and the moment I start offsetting them. I'm guessing I'm holding them straight too long or I'm timing the break swing wrong, but would like to see other people data.
4) Horizontal speed when elevation < 10ft. In this case, My top Horizontal speed matches my fake gates.

p.s. this data was recorded under a Crossfire2 129sqft WL @ 1.55


(This post was edited by daffes on Nov 4, 2015, 7:42 AM)
Attachments: this.png (412 KB)
  09-19-25 270 good.CSV (397 KB)


danielcroft  (D 31103)

Nov 4, 2015, 9:33 AM
Post #4 of 32 (11567 views)
Shortcut
Re: [daffes] Can you share your Flysight swoop data? [In reply to] Can't Post

I get that in a lot of mine as well, something I'm trying to work out. The thing to check there is dive angle, you'll find you're leveling out on your turn at that point. You should be able to identify what part of your technique is causing that with some coaching or at least, outside video. After getting some coaching recently, I've changed my turn around a bit but still bedding that in, to be honest.

Two of mine attached here (I keep them all so, I have A LOT - I also have inside video) one is bad pattern followed by an ok turn. Check the roll out time and you'll see that I'm in the range I'm looking for which is nice but messy on the top end doesn't help. The other is a better looking turn but you can see the affect of the longer rollout in the difference between max vertical and horizontal speeds. 10ish mph is fine for me since I'm not trying to be a competition swooper. I'm aiming for a 3.5/4 second rollout. My turn height is defined by how long I can actually stretch the turn out, i.e. if I don't go as slow as I possibly can on the top 180, I'm high and so my rollout is longer and my on the deck speed suffers for that. I start in half-ish brakes (yep, should be exact but #REASONS) 3 second lead in from 850 *aiming* for a 2.5 second first 90, 1.5 second, second 90 and then whip around the last 90. Doesn't always happen, obviously and I'm usually free falling, not hop and pops. VK79 @ 2.2.

I'm certainly not an expert in this arena and started doing 270s in a pretty sub-optimal way. I've recently got coaching (270 specific, I've done other coaching) which was pretty helpful but not a whole lot of changes, just to not pause between the first 180 and whip. Basically, just do what I'm doing but suck less. Laugh

When I look at my flysight data, I check the dive angle, rollout time and difference between max vertical and max horizontal. I look at how I'm building speed and work towards minimizing that drop that you see as well but I honestly feel like it's a function of the way I'm doing my turn. I check that those lines are nice and smooth, as well.
Attachments: 19-09-04.CSV (133 KB)
  17-49-41.CSV (258 KB)


daffes  (D License)

Nov 4, 2015, 11:26 AM
Post #5 of 32 (11502 views)
Shortcut
Re: [danielcroft] Can you share your Flysight swoop data? [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for the info Dan, the shape of the top view from 19-09-04 looks pretty neat. Interesting to see a similar pattern of vertical speeds from your data, looks like you're being able to at least maintain the vertical speed in that interval.

I added dive angle to my plots as you suggested, it's in fact more effective than just vertical speed for debrief. I can see when the dive angle gets shallower before even the speed starts decreasing. It almost matches the vertical speed curve offset by a second.

This gives me a few ideas to play with this weekend, hopefully one of them will work :).


dqpacker  (D 32043)

Nov 4, 2015, 11:36 AM
Post #6 of 32 (11479 views)
Shortcut
Re: [daffes] Can you share your Flysight swoop data? [In reply to] Can't Post

http://youtu.be/gZEdDMQZaCU


danielcroft  (D 31103)

Nov 4, 2015, 12:05 PM
Post #7 of 32 (11453 views)
Shortcut
Re: [daffes] Can you share your Flysight swoop data? [In reply to] Can't Post

Laugh dq, true dat, breaux.

Here's the first landing (17-49-41), my pattern was really shit #FAIL but turned around at the last second and swooped the other direction https://vimeo.com/142103153. Landing starts at 2:47 (high pull).
Here's the second landing (19-19-04), as a plus, you get to see me fall on my face after I tripped on a mound of dirt #FAIL https://vimeo.com/142103512. Landing starts @ 1:44.

I watch my jumps, review my landings and check my flysight data for all my jumps; usually more than once. #NerdAlert


hodges  (D 108409)

Feb 24, 2016, 4:36 PM
Post #8 of 32 (10403 views)
Shortcut
Re: [daffes] Can you share your Flysight swoop data? [In reply to] Can't Post

Finally did some jumping!

The attached screenshot is a good example of the shape I'm aiming for.

However, you'll notice the huge plateau in vertical speed at the start of the turn (it actually starts to drop off on this one) which I'm working on at the moment. This is a particularly good example actually.

I think it's a combination of a poor surge to double-fronts and staying on the fronts too long before adding rotation, allowing the canopy to start recovering from the dive.

Really interested to see some 450 plots if anyone wants to share :-).
Attachments: SJM0007.jpg (290 KB)


hodges  (D 108409)

Feb 24, 2016, 4:41 PM
Post #9 of 32 (10400 views)
Shortcut
Re: [hodges] Can you share your Flysight swoop data? [In reply to] Can't Post

Ah, you mention the plateau above. Glad I'm not the only one struggling with that :-).


danielcroft  (D 31103)

Feb 25, 2016, 3:20 PM
Post #10 of 32 (10269 views)
Shortcut
Re: [hodges] Can you share your Flysight swoop data? [In reply to] Can't Post

Yeah, shame some guru doesn't step in and say "hey, guys, that's because of X. If you do Y, it'll totally help."...


n8cc2peeple  (D 35048)

Mar 2, 2016, 3:38 PM
Post #11 of 32 (9869 views)
Shortcut
Re: [danielcroft] Can you share your Flysight swoop data? [In reply to] Can't Post

they just sayin start turnin earlier


raymod2  (D 25630)

Mar 10, 2016, 6:36 PM
Post #12 of 32 (9538 views)
Shortcut
Re: [daffes] Can you share your Flysight swoop data? [In reply to] Can't Post

Davi, I have attached a PDF with plots from the swoop you posted. I have also pasted the metrics below.

If you look at the "speed during dive" plot you can see the speed in all axes and the total speed (the sum of all axes) which is in purple. The purple line shows a steady increase in total speed despite a brief dip in vertical speed. You are still building power - you are just (temporarily) trading off some of that vertical speed for horizontal speed.

You can get rid of that dip in vertical speed simply by reducing the time spent on double fronts and rolling into your turn earlier. I don't know if I would recommend that, however, because you are doing a small turn (270 degrees) and you need time to build power. Staying on double fronts gives you extra dive time. Just don't take it too far. If you see a dip in total speed then you are staying on double fronts for too long and losing power.

exited airplane:      13353 ft AGL 
initiated turn: 533 ft AGL, -6 ft back, -248 ft offset
max vertical speed: 170 ft AGL, 168 ft back, 36 ft offset (59.9 mph)
started rollout: 170 ft AGL, 168 ft back, 36 ft offset (59.9 mph)
finished rollout: 9 ft AGL, 0 ft back, 0 ft offset
max total speed: 127 ft AGL, 160 ft back, 23 ft offset (63.0 mph)
max horizontal speed: 25 ft AGL, 60 ft back, -2 ft offset (50.0 mph)

degrees of rotation: 253 deg (right-hand)
time to execute turn: 8.00 sec
time during rollout: 3.04 sec
time aloft during swoop: 6.16 sec

entry gate speed: 45.6 mph
distance to stop: 182 ft
touchdown estimate: 182 ft (1.2 mph)
speed carve time: ---- sec (---- mph)


(This post was edited by raymod2 on Mar 10, 2016, 10:05 PM)
Attachments: 09-19-25.pdf (49.4 KB)


daffes  (D License)

Mar 11, 2016, 11:47 AM
Post #13 of 32 (9435 views)
Shortcut
Re: [raymod2] Can you share your Flysight swoop data? [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for running this detailed analysis raymod2, adding the purple line makes a lot of sense.

It's a little harder to analyze like that because horizontal speed will be affected by winds, but I guess we just have to deal with it.

Quote:
I don't know if I would recommend that, however, because you are doing a small turn (270 degrees) and you need time to build power.

Very interesting, so I have been trying to fix something that is not a problem but a good thing? :), that's why coaching is so valuable!


Jason1996

Aug 8, 2016, 2:04 PM
Post #14 of 32 (8142 views)
Shortcut
Re: [danielcroft] Can you share your Flysight swoop data? [In reply to] Can't Post

danielcroft wrote:
Laugh dq, true dat, breaux.
https://vimeo.com/142103153. Landing starts at 2:47 (high pull).

Valkyrie is a great parachute. Nice oldschool swoop, perhaps try a harder harness-input. :P


Di0  (D 34840)

Aug 9, 2016, 12:18 PM
Post #15 of 32 (8004 views)
Shortcut
Re: [daffes] Can you share your Flysight swoop data? [In reply to] Can't Post

This could potentially become one of the most useful threads in here!!
I am also where you are: started using a flysight to review my 270s, I started doing 270s last weekend for the first time. I'm also on a crossfire2 109, WL of about 1.6.
I am also bothered by that very same "plateau", which is very annoying because ideally we don't want it.
The bright side, when forced to go back to a 90 because of traffic, the plateau (which I also had on my 90s before), is "magically" gone. :D

I am making a point to myself to keep video AND flysight tracks together, so you can find them in the comment of my inside video (links to mediafire for direct downloads, I promise they're legit CSV files, no porno or viruses LoL).

https://youtu.be/38MIyCREPiA


(This post was edited by Di0 on Aug 9, 2016, 12:21 PM)


danielcroft  (D 31103)

Aug 10, 2016, 11:19 AM
Post #16 of 32 (7910 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Jason1996] Can you share your Flysight swoop data? [In reply to] Can't Post

Jason1996 wrote:
Valkyrie is a great parachute. Nice oldschool swoop, perhaps try a harder harness-input. :P
So much to work on, on every jump. ;-)


Jason1996

Aug 11, 2016, 7:20 AM
Post #17 of 32 (7818 views)
Shortcut
Re: [danielcroft] Can you share your Flysight swoop data? [In reply to] Can't Post

danielcroft wrote:
So much to work on, on every jump. ;-)

;)


Pablo.Moreno  (C 13216)

Aug 14, 2016, 10:33 PM
Post #18 of 32 (7696 views)
Shortcut
Re: [raymod2] Can you share your Flysight swoop data? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
You can get rid of that dip in vertical speed simply by reducing the time spent on double fronts and rolling into your turn earlier. I don't know if I would recommend that, however, because you are doing a small turn (270 degrees) and you need time to build power. Staying on double fronts gives you extra dive time. Just don't take it too far. If you see a dip in total speed then you are staying on double fronts for too long and losing power.

The other way I found to be able to get rid of that platou is to keep adding rotation after you do your first 90.

On the 270, I tend to let go of the front as I am adding the snap on the last 90 and that space in between the second 90 and last snappy 90 the canopy try to recover for small amount of time and the downside to is that is you lose power on your last 90 where you could be on a steeper dive.

Remember anytime you are trying to change your rotation check your altitude lost up high so you dont put yourself in the corner.

The nice thing with Flysight is you can try many turns up high and analyzed the data out of one jump with many turns.

For example, when learning to do a 450, I went and did a HnP from 8 grand and did the fastest 450 I could ever do, the slowest I could do and a regular.
I already had my altitude lost on a regular 450 but now If I am early or late I know what type of a turn I need to make to be able to still score, and I know when I would have to change the turn because I am to low.


danielcroft  (D 31103)

Aug 17, 2016, 12:02 AM
Post #19 of 32 (7526 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Pablo.Moreno] Can you share your Flysight swoop data? [In reply to] Can't Post

Pablo.Moreno wrote:
For example, when learning to do a 450, I went and did a HnP from 8 grand and did the fastest 450 I could ever do, the slowest I could do and a regular.
Keeping in mind that density altitude at 8k will impact your altitude loss and speed.

I was pretty happy with this turn, not perfect by any stretch. At sea level into a ~10mph wind.

** n.b. includes free fall
Attachments: 15-49-44.CSV (139 KB)


Pablo.Moreno  (C 13216)

Aug 18, 2016, 5:42 PM
Post #20 of 32 (7409 views)
Shortcut
Re: [danielcroft] Can you share your Flysight swoop data? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
danielcroft wrote:
Pablo.Moreno wrote:
For example, when learning to do a 450, I went and did a HnP from 8 grand and did the fastest 450 I could ever do, the slowest I could do and a regular.
Keeping in mind that density altitude at 8k will impact your altitude loss and speed.

I was pretty happy with this turn, not perfect by any stretch. At sea level into a ~10mph wind.

** n.b. includes free fall

That's the beauty of doing things up high. Even thou you will have your lowest point of initiation, you still will have a small margin of error at that point anyways, which is always good to have.


kh286

Sep 14, 2016, 1:27 PM
Post #21 of 32 (7037 views)
Shortcut
Re: [daffes] Can you share your Flysight swoop data? [In reply to] Can't Post

the power of a smooth harnessturn: (450 CompVelo75 2.3WL perfect no-wind conditions 650m above sealevel)
Attachments: 16-17-41.CSV (211 KB)


daffes  (D License)

Sep 20, 2016, 9:48 AM
Post #22 of 32 (6782 views)
Shortcut
Re: [danielcroft] Can you share your Flysight swoop data? [In reply to] Can't Post

Nice, I see your degree of turn is closer to 300.

I'm starting to realize that there's a maximum amount of input of toggle surge that one can do if they want to avoid the flat plateau on the vertical speed and not speed up the time to execute the turn, since you also need time on the vertical axis to build speed. On a 270' there's not enough time to reach terminal and I'm aiming for 8.5 seconds.

The reasoning is the following: the more your canopy is pointing down, the faster your angular speed needs to be to keep it on that position.

If my toggle surge is strong, I need to add ~30 degrees of rotation to be able to keep building speed on the first second and not execute the turn faster than I want. Maybe that's just technique, but I haven't been able to accomplish the same with just a 270' unless I don't do a toggle surge. I would love to see a slow (~8.5 seconds) 270, with a decent toggle surge, that doesn't have a plateau on the vertical speed.


(This post was edited by daffes on Sep 20, 2016, 9:50 AM)


danielcroft  (D 31103)

Sep 20, 2016, 3:11 PM
Post #23 of 32 (6733 views)
Shortcut
Re: [daffes] Can you share your Flysight swoop data? [In reply to] Can't Post

I wouldn't put too much emphasis on the degree of rotation that you're seeing in my turn. I've changed the top end of my turn recently to try to address that dip and, I'm still getting my head around that change. Far from perfect again (let's be honest, I'll never call a turn perfect) but, you can see a significant difference in the attached turn (the other I did that day wasn't as good but, similar results) based on the change implemented.


(This post was edited by danielcroft on Sep 20, 2016, 3:11 PM)
Attachments: 09-48-47.CSV (224 KB)


daffes  (D License)

Sep 20, 2016, 5:20 PM
Post #24 of 32 (6721 views)
Shortcut
Re: [danielcroft] Can you share your Flysight swoop data? [In reply to] Can't Post

That's a pretty nice curve, from zero vert monotonically increasing to 74, you just showed I don't need those extra degrees of rotation :). The only thing I could spot was a little slow down on the turn rate before the final snap.

Is there a specific thing that you changed since your first post here to achieve that?

EDIT:
Attached one with very similar results and amount of time as yours, but I had to use ~320 degrees instead of 260.


(This post was edited by daffes on Sep 20, 2016, 5:46 PM)
Attachments: 16-08-13.CSV (419 KB)


danielcroft  (D 31103)

Sep 21, 2016, 12:22 PM
Post #25 of 32 (6575 views)
Shortcut
Re: [daffes] Can you share your Flysight swoop data? [In reply to] Can't Post

As I mentioned, I'm still trying to get my head around the change and its impact on the rest of my turn and, the turn I posted included a change of direction in the bottom end so, I'm losing speed etc. The other factor to remember is that I'm deliberately trying to keep my rollout > 3.5 seconds to allow a margin for error. Since I'm not a CP person, I want to have more room to deal with errors in my turn and, calculations around required altitude. As you can see from my profile, I'm flying a VK79 @ ~2.2:1 with a removable slider (not full RDS).

The change I've been trying to make is: keep my speed up while on my "base" (it's final for 270, the same location as a base leg on a normal landing so I use that terminology) and then do a 3 second-ish flare, hold for a breath, let up for 1.x seconds to allow the wing to surge and then get on the fronts and do my normal turn.

What are you loading your JVX at?


First page Previous page 1 2 Next page Last page  View All

Forums : Skydiving Disciplines : Swooping and Canopy Control

 


Search for (options)