Forums: Skydiving: Gear and Rigging:
Linesets - bar tackers vs zig zag with jig

 


jpriestley

Aug 15, 2014, 11:02 AM
Post #1 of 12 (1447 views)
Shortcut
Linesets - bar tackers vs zig zag with jig Can't Post

I'm curious what the feelings are on doing linesets with a classic zig zag machine versus a purpose-built bartacker. Obviously, the speed and quality of a purpose-built bartacker is ideal but for someone not doing the work often, how is the quality and appearance of line set work with a jig?

Do many riggers out there do the work without a bartack machine? I've seen nice jigs that straddle the line and allow the feed dogs to pull the work cleanly.

I've been looking at bartack machines and wondered about this... Without a lot of work on lines, I question the need to spend a lot of money on a machine. Any opinions would be appreciated.

Thanks!


Premier likestojump  (D License)

Aug 15, 2014, 11:18 AM
Post #2 of 12 (1428 views)
Shortcut
Re: [jpriestley] Linesets - bar tackers vs zig zag with jig [In reply to] Can't Post

Bartacker can be used for more than just lines.

pretty much anyplace that needs to be reinforced a bartacker will do the job better - clamp, hit the pedal - voila !

If you don't do a lot of linework, maybe a cheaper mechanical cam driven end stop tacker is your answer. Those sell for $300-$1000 (Pfaff 3334, Juki LK series, Singer (2)69W series seem to be popular)

Personally, I don't do a lot of line work, but I LOVE my Juki 1900.


fluffyduckie  (B 33293)

Aug 15, 2014, 6:29 PM
Post #3 of 12 (1293 views)
Shortcut
Re: [jpriestley] Linesets - bar tackers vs zig zag with jig [In reply to] Can't Post

I want to have babies with my Pfaff 3334. That said, if I was forced to use a zig zag, I expect I would use a jig until enough repetitions allowed for me to install a lineset quickly and accurately without it. A bartacker will also come in handy for a large range of canopy repairs.


strife  (D 5457)

Aug 17, 2014, 12:04 AM
Post #4 of 12 (1128 views)
Shortcut
Re: [fluffyduckie] Linesets - bar tackers vs zig zag with jig [In reply to] Can't Post

anyone help tell me the difference between a pfaff 3336 and 3334 (besides 2) ?

cheers


JohnSherman  (D 2105)

Aug 17, 2014, 12:42 PM
Post #5 of 12 (1041 views)
Shortcut
Re: [jpriestley] Linesets - bar tackers vs zig zag with jig [In reply to] Can't Post

Think about the difference stitch each makes.
A Bar Tack makes a couple of rows of a 301 stitch covered by a dense application of perpendicular 304 stitches.
There is more than one type of zig-zag. A 304 Zig-zag is simply a left to right and back stitch where a 308 is called a "Double Throw" zig-zag. It has a stitch in the middle of the left - right pass. I like to think about a zig-zag stitch ( both the 304 & 308) as a side view of a coil spring. It has the ability to be lengthened during a stretch of the fabric without stressing the thread. The 308 is stronger as it has the additional anchor stitch in the middle which acts as a pivot for the stretch.
The bar tack has limited stretch because of the 3 passes of the 301 stitch under the zig-zags.
On finger trapped braided lines the bar-tack has worked well but is intended to be only a anchor stitch for the finger trap.
As a manufacturer I think either is OK for use in the field. We use the bar-tacker in production because it is faster and more automatic. However, every good rigger has a Double throw machine in their arsenal which is more valuable than a bar tack.


RiggerLee

Aug 17, 2014, 1:47 PM
Post #6 of 12 (1022 views)
Shortcut
Re: [JohnSherman] Linesets - bar tackers vs zig zag with jig [In reply to] Can't Post

We all know about your fetish for your 308. Do you even own any other sewing machines? Is there any thing that you haven't sewn with it at one time or another?

Lee


Premier likestojump  (D License)

Aug 17, 2014, 1:58 PM
Post #7 of 12 (1014 views)
Shortcut
Re: [RiggerLee] Linesets - bar tackers vs zig zag with jig [In reply to] Can't Post

RiggerLee wrote:
We all know about your fetish for your 308. Do you even own any other sewing machines? Is there any thing that you haven't sewn with it at one time or another?

Lee

Let me re-echo what Lee said and add this :

For maintenance purposes, picking out 308 is an absolute pain in the ass.


strife  (D 5457)

Aug 18, 2014, 8:27 PM
Post #8 of 12 (835 views)
Shortcut
Re: [strife] Linesets - bar tackers vs zig zag with jig [In reply to] Can't Post

strife wrote:
anyone help tell me the difference between a pfaff 3336 and 3334 (besides 2) ?

cheers

From what I have been told it is just he upgraded model to the 3334 so anyway i own one now.

My son thinks Im a bit weird.


skybill  (D 6009)

Aug 18, 2014, 11:29 PM
Post #9 of 12 (797 views)
Shortcut
Re: [jpriestley] Linesets - bar tackers vs zig zag with jig [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi JP,
To start with, what John said. The part about the "coil spring" effect of the 308 and 304 stitch is on it. If you're running a full tilt boogie shop then a bar tack machine is handy. So is a 304 and 308 machine. If you don't have a big operation and don't need all that heavy artillery there are other options. 'Back in '77 (don't do the math, it'll scare you!) I found a Singer "Fashion Mate" machine in a sewing shop in Long Island NY!! It's all steel parts, heavy and built like a brick sh*t house!! 'Does fwd, reverse, straight (301) and zig-zag (304)!! Works great with "E" thread!! 'Think I paid $75.00 for it back then!! 'Does great 304 bar tacks for lines!! 'Still have it and it runs fine!!


jpriestley

Sep 12, 2014, 9:16 AM
Post #10 of 12 (309 views)
Shortcut
Re: [jpriestley] Linesets - bar tackers vs zig zag with jig [In reply to] Can't Post

I just want to take a quick second to say 'Thank You' to all of you who are sharing your knowledge. The great advice is REALLY appreciated but the logic and explanation behind it really drive the points home. I wish I could buy you all a beer. Also, it gave me some good information to start with and sent me down the path of reading more. With this foundation, I've contacted a respected rigger about 90 miles away and arranged to spend some time learning the basics of linesets. Blue Skies!


(This post was edited by jpriestley on Sep 12, 2014, 9:26 AM)


gowlerk  (C 3196)

Sep 12, 2014, 9:25 AM
Post #11 of 12 (303 views)
Shortcut
Re: [skybill] Linesets - bar tackers vs zig zag with jig [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
'Back in '77 (don't do the math, it'll scare you!) I found a Singer "Fashion Mate" machine in a sewing shop in Long Island NY!! It's all steel parts, heavy and built like a brick sh*t house!! 'Does fwd, reverse, straight (301) and zig-zag (304)!! Works great with "E" thread!!


This is just a heads up for anyone shopping for a sewing machine. Singer did make a line called "Fashion Mate" in the seventies. The very first one was the 237 model. It is a class 15 oscillating shuttle zigzag machine with all metal gears and it's a very good sewing machine. As good as it gets for domestic machines doing rigging work. If you find one get it.

But be aware that it's the last good machine Singer made. The "Fashion Mate" name went on for a few more years with plastic gears that are now failing, and different bobbin/hook systems that are not nearly as good.

Except for the 237, "Fashion Mates" have a very poor reputation.


rifleman  (Student)

Sep 12, 2014, 9:49 AM
Post #12 of 12 (288 views)
Shortcut
Re: [gowlerk] Linesets - bar tackers vs zig zag with jig [In reply to] Can't Post

There's a 237 on ebay in the states in Brockport, New York:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/...;hash=item2ed5b164eb

I don't think the postage costs would apply in the US.

ETA: Another one here in Wayne, Pennsylvania

http://www.ebay.co.uk/...;hash=item2594b75058


(This post was edited by rifleman on Sep 12, 2014, 9:52 AM)



Forums : Skydiving : Gear and Rigging

 


Search for (options)