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Oklahoma Non-fatal 16-year old female?

 

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TitaniumLegs  (D 19246)

Jan 27, 2014, 7:35 PM
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Oklahoma Non-fatal 16-year old female? Can't Post

This from a co-worker in Texas:

Quote:
Last Saturday, a 16 year old Dallas girl (first time parachute jumper) survived a jump from 3500 and her chute did not open up. In Texas, you have to be 18 years old and have 4 four tandem jumps before you can jump solo. She had only one tandem jump and her dad took her to Oklahoma so she could jump on her 16th birthday.

She broke her back and several broken bones but survived.

Obviously, there are a few things wrong with this, but wondering if anybody else had heard of this, and maybe have more of the story...


(This post was edited by TitaniumLegs on Jan 27, 2014, 7:35 PM)


yoink

Jan 27, 2014, 8:30 PM
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Re: [TitaniumLegs] Oklahoma Non-fatal 16-year old female? [In reply to] Can't Post

TitaniumLegs wrote:
This from a co-worker in Texas:

Quote:
Last Saturday, a 16 year old Dallas girl (first time parachute jumper) survived a jump from 3500 and her chute did not open up. In Texas, you have to be 18 years old and have 4 four tandem jumps before you can jump solo. She had only one tandem jump and her dad took her to Oklahoma so she could jump on her 16th birthday.

She broke her back and several broken bones but survived.

Obviously, there are a few things wrong with this, but wondering if anybody else had heard of this, and maybe have more of the story...

What are the rules in Oklahoma, anyone know?

The rules in the state she was from are irrelevant.


(This post was edited by yoink on Jan 27, 2014, 8:31 PM)


GLIDEANGLE  (D 30292)

Jan 27, 2014, 8:31 PM
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Re: [TitaniumLegs] Oklahoma Non-fatal 16-year old female? [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.myfoxdfw.com/...achute-fails-to-open


wasatchrider

Jan 27, 2014, 8:34 PM
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Re: [GLIDEANGLE] Oklahoma Non-fatal 16-year old female? [In reply to] Can't Post

sounds like she couldt reach her toggle maybe didnt know how to steer with rears and downwinded into a bad spot? just a guess


Dropsloan

Jan 27, 2014, 9:06 PM
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Re: [TitaniumLegs] Oklahoma Non-fatal 16-year old female? [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.pegasusairsports.com/

Here is a link to the web site of where this occurred. There was story on WFAA about this tonight. I'm not sure but I thought all jumpers had to be 18 according to USPA guidelines and this DZ is supposedly USPA affiliated.


Dropsloan

Jan 27, 2014, 9:10 PM
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Re: [Dropsloan] Oklahoma Non-fatal 16-year old female? [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.wfaa.com/news/local/Skydiving-Texas-teen-faces-long-recovery-after-parachute-tangles-242323061.html

Here is the story on WFAA. It sounds like she did a static line jump. The jump was according to this story from 3500 feet. The DZ blamed her saying "she did not follow her training". Damn, this girl was 16! She is lucky to be alive.


Krip  (Student)

Jan 27, 2014, 9:11 PM
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Re: [TitaniumLegs] Oklahoma Non-fatal 16-year old female? [In reply to] Can't Post

Wish her all the best for a complete recovery.Smile

Her light weight saved her from a much worse injury.

R.


jumpsracer  (D 33650)

Jan 27, 2014, 10:53 PM
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Re: [TitaniumLegs] Oklahoma Non-fatal 16-year old female? [In reply to] Can't Post

Static line jump, brake fire on opening and spun into ground. She later said she tried to cutaway but couldn't. Fractured three ribs, fractured vertebrate, concussion, lacerated liver and kidneys and fractured pelvis. DZO does NOT turn aad on for static line jumps.


Hellis

Jan 27, 2014, 11:24 PM
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Re: [jumpsracer] Oklahoma Non-fatal 16-year old female? [In reply to] Can't Post

jumpsracer wrote:
Static line jump, brake fire on opening and spun into ground. She later said she tried to cutaway but couldn't. Fractured three ribs, fractured vertebrate, concussion, lacerated liver and kidneys and fractured pelvis. DZO does NOT turn aad on for static line jumps.

Do you know why they don't turn on the AADs for static line jumps?


Rover  (D 241)

Jan 28, 2014, 12:31 AM
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Re: [Dropsloan] Oklahoma Non-fatal 16-year old female? [In reply to] Can't Post

Dropsloan wrote:
The DZ blamed her saying "she did not follow her training". Damn, this girl was 16! She is lucky to be alive.

I did my first jump when I was 16 - no problem here. Maybe legally where the incident happened there is a legal issue and the interested parties can go and 'sue the shit out of eachother' but I see no issue with a competent 16 year old jumping. Girl or not. Seen plenty older than 16 jump that shouldn't do so because of their abilities.


jumpsracer  (D 33650)

Jan 28, 2014, 12:42 AM
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Re: [Hellis] Oklahoma Non-fatal 16-year old female? [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't know what his reasoning is for not turning the aad's on. (FXC's)


piisfish

Jan 28, 2014, 1:53 AM
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Re: [Dropsloan] Oklahoma Non-fatal 16-year old female? [In reply to] Can't Post

Dropsloan wrote:
The DZ blamed her saying "she did not follow her training". Damn, this girl was 16! She is lucky to be alive.
isn't she allowed to drive at that age ? I think a 16 year old is less prone to die/kill someone skydiving rather than let loose on the road Unimpressed


Hellis

Jan 28, 2014, 2:50 AM
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Re: [jumpsracer] Oklahoma Non-fatal 16-year old female? [In reply to] Can't Post

jumpsracer wrote:
I don't know what his reasoning is for not turning the aad's on. (FXC's)

FXC has 20 m/s firespeed? Should have been enough.
But on the other hand it could have made things much worse.

I can understand the reasoning that AADs should not be needed on static line jumps, but after a cutaway it could be needed.
And a few years ago a first jump student had a AAD fire on a static line jump on our DZ.
The hook on the static line somehow got disconnected during the ride up. As far as I know the how/when/why it got disconnected is unknown.


freakflyer9999  (D 99999)

Jan 28, 2014, 4:32 AM
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Re: [Dropsloan] Oklahoma Non-fatal 16-year old female? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote from WFAA story -

The family now hiring a lawyer in hopes all their questions about what happened can be answered as Makenzie heals.


This is why 16 year olds shouldn't jump. Ability or not, the liability is the issue.


davelepka  (D 21448)

Jan 28, 2014, 4:37 AM
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Re: [Dropsloan] Oklahoma Non-fatal 16-year old female? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
The DZ blamed her saying "she did not follow her training". Damn, this girl was 16!

Are you saying her age is a reason she didn't need to follow her training? Does she need to follow the rules of the road when she drives, or does being 16 make it OK for her to blow through red lights all day?

If the story is correct, and it was a brake fire, a controllability check would have cleared the other brake and ended the 'malfunction'. I can't imagine the turn was very fast, with a young girl under a student canopy, and to not complete step one of the canopy flight is just straight non-performance on the part of the student.


chuckakers  (D 10855)

Jan 28, 2014, 5:18 AM
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Re: [yoink] Oklahoma Non-fatal 16-year old female? [In reply to] Can't Post

yoink wrote:
TitaniumLegs wrote:
This from a co-worker in Texas:

Quote:
Last Saturday, a 16 year old Dallas girl (first time parachute jumper) survived a jump from 3500 and her chute did not open up. In Texas, you have to be 18 years old and have 4 four tandem jumps before you can jump solo. She had only one tandem jump and her dad took her to Oklahoma so she could jump on her 16th birthday.

She broke her back and several broken bones but survived.

Obviously, there are a few things wrong with this, but wondering if anybody else had heard of this, and maybe have more of the story...

What are the rules in Oklahoma, anyone know?

The rules in the state she was from are irrelevant.

It's not about rules. A person can legally jump in any state at 16. The issue is with lawsuits. In many states (Texas included) a waiver signed on behalf of a minor by a parent or guardian won't hold up in a civil court.


kleggo  (D 8292)

Jan 28, 2014, 5:27 AM
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Re: [freakflyer9999] Oklahoma Non-fatal 16-year old female? [In reply to] Can't Post

freakflyer9999 wrote:
Quote from WFAA story -

The family now hiring a lawyer in hopes all their questions about what happened can be answered as Makenzie heals.


This is why 16 year olds shouldn't jump. Ability or not, the liability is the issue.

probably true in most cases

sounds like she had a gear issue
she then likely flailed instead of reacting correctly
and
now the family wants to be compensated

no surprise there
gad bless america.


drjump  (D 2785)

Jan 28, 2014, 5:59 AM
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Re: [chuckakers] Oklahoma Non-fatal 16-year old female? [In reply to] Can't Post

S/L, AFF, what ever method is being used, it doesn't matter! You can give the best instruction given, in the class room and on the ground, BUT you, the instructor/jumpmaster, will never know if the student will respond and or react properly to an emergency condition.


chedlin  (A 65914)

Jan 28, 2014, 6:20 AM
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DBCOOPER  (D 24112)

Jan 28, 2014, 6:43 AM
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Re: [chedlin] Oklahoma Non-fatal 16-year old female? [In reply to] Can't Post

Parents can sign a waiver for their children. What happens is when they turn 18 the waiver is no longer any good. So the child, when reaching 18 can than sue without the complication of the waivers enforceability. As far as I know there is no legal minimum age to make a parachute jump in the United States.


pchapman  (D 1014)

Jan 28, 2014, 6:54 AM
Post #21 of 141 (12548 views)
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Re: [jumpsracer] Oklahoma Non-fatal 16-year old female? [In reply to] Can't Post

jumpsracer wrote:
DZO does NOT turn aad on for static line jumps.

In my estimation, an open but spiralling student canopy won't fire a properly calibrated FXC. While the DZO's choice has implications for other malfunctions, it probably didn't affect this incident's outcome.

(I once did tests for a DZ, carrying 3 FXC's and a bunch of weight to see if I could set them off. Doing sustained toggle spirals, I wasn't able to fire them in cases like a Falcon 215 at 1.15 wing loading (~245 lb) or a Sabre 135 at 1.3 wing loading. When I got the Sabre up to 1.4, they started firing.)


normiss  (D 28356)

Jan 28, 2014, 7:23 AM
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Re: [kleggo] Oklahoma Non-fatal 16-year old female? [In reply to] Can't Post

Seeing how smart her daddy appeared on tv, I'm not surprised.
Seems to me the injured student didn't understand anything either.
Unsure


Some folks should never skydive.


jlmiracle  (D License)

Jan 28, 2014, 7:31 AM
Post #23 of 141 (12419 views)
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Re: [freakflyer9999] Oklahoma Non-fatal 16-year old female? [In reply to] Can't Post

freakflyer9999 wrote:
Quote from WFAA story -

The family now hiring a lawyer in hopes all their questions about what happened can be answered as Makenzie heals.


This is why 16 year olds shouldn't jump. Ability or not, the liability is the issue.

I know more 20+ year old that should never skydive...ever.


BIGUN  (D 23385)

Jan 28, 2014, 8:21 AM
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Re: [DBCOOPER] Oklahoma Non-fatal 16-year old female? [In reply to] Can't Post

DBCOOPER wrote:
Parents can sign a waiver for their children. What happens is when they turn 18 the waiver is no longer any good. So the child, when reaching 18 can than sue without the complication of the waivers enforceability. As far as I know there is no legal minimum age to make a parachute jump in the United States.

There is. The "Assumption of Risk" document is a contract. In most states; including Oklahoma, "Voidable when done within one year after age of majority; exception: contracts for necessaries and statutory obligations (15 13, et seq.)" SOURCE: http://statelaws.findlaw.com/oklahoma-law/oklahoma-legal-ages-laws.html

The age is 18. Anyone who chooses to ignore that will find themselves facing what this DZ and father will be facing. Times have changed and the old "16 with parental consent" has even been changed by the USPA. As for not having the AAD turned on (speculation on whether it would have worked in this situation is irrelevant).


MikeBIBOM  (A 67685)

Jan 28, 2014, 8:51 AM
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Re: [BIGUN] Oklahoma Non-fatal 16-year old female? [In reply to] Can't Post

Not according to the USPA it hasn't: http://www.uspa.org/AboutSkydiving/FrequentlyAskedQuestions/tabid/57/Default.aspx

Quote:
At least 16 years old with notarized parental or guardian consent. Most commonly, skydiving schools require a minimum age of 18

I think 16 is acceptable (I know of some younger<cough cough> in Europe), so long as the family has a history of Skydiving and the kid has been around DZs for a while and knows about the equipment. Since it seems to have been Dad's first jump too, that wasn't the case here.

Not sure what he expected the instructor to do once she was under canopy, or what difference exit order would have made.


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