Forums: Skydiving: Incidents:
Fatalitu in Poland?

 


irishrigger  (D 297)

Oct 20, 2013, 1:04 AM
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Fatalitu in Poland? Can't Post

I heard of a fatality in Poland yesterday also, does anyone have any further info on this?


agnieszkas  (B 2717)

Oct 20, 2013, 6:12 AM
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Re: [irishrigger] Fatalitu in Poland? [In reply to] Can't Post

http://spadochroniarz zginął w pobliżu Inowrocławia

Own simplified translation:

Parachutist died near town of Inowroclaw
29year old male skydiver died near the airport of Inowroclaw. Man fell into the ground during his training. Most probable cause of fatality was malfunction of his parachute (canopy).
His body fell on the sports field in Jacowe near Inowroclaw.

From first investigations it is clear that the man was performing a training jump (student?) and most likely his parachute failed to open. This resulted in death of 29year old.

Investigation in process.


(This post was edited by agnieszkas on Oct 20, 2013, 6:13 AM)


Premier skydiverek  (C 41769)

Oct 20, 2013, 1:08 PM
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Re: [irishrigger] Fatalitu in Poland? [In reply to] Can't Post

Probable info:

Student jumper. 29 years old. Stabilized solo jump using a drogue (like a tandem, or some smoke jumper, or military jumper would use). Pulled cutaway instead of drogue release. Did not pull reserve (handle still in the pocket). MPAAD AAD (made by Mars company, maker of M2 AAD) either did not activate, or activated without full success. Hit a sports field at terminal velocity.


leadgenx

Oct 21, 2013, 1:00 AM
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Re: [irishrigger] Fatalitu in Poland? [In reply to] Can't Post

It was his 9th jump :(


Premier skydiverek  (C 41769)

Nov 11, 2013, 1:31 PM
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Re: [irishrigger] Fatalitu in Poland? [In reply to] Can't Post

MPAAD AAD bulletin (from Mars company), after it did not cut the loop on this fatal jump...:

http://www.marsjev.cz/...uption_Diving_EN.pdf


irishrigger  (D 297)

Nov 11, 2013, 4:53 PM
Post #6 of 21 (3926 views)
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Re: [skydiverek] Fatalitu in Poland? [In reply to] Can't Post

Oh boy, hopefully we do not have another saga about a cutter not cutting the loop again. FrownFrownFrown


(This post was edited by irishrigger on Nov 11, 2013, 4:56 PM)


samlee  (C 107240)

Nov 11, 2013, 10:51 PM
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Re: [irishrigger] Fatalitu in Poland? [In reply to] Can't Post

The full bulletin is posted here: http://www.m2aad.com/...bulletin-no-10112013

It doesn't appear to be a cutter issue but instead a sensor issue. Not great but will happen with a fairly new AAD.


pchapman  (D 1014)

Nov 11, 2013, 11:14 PM
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Re: [samlee] Fatalitu in Poland? [In reply to] Can't Post

samlee wrote:
The full bulletin is posted here: http://www.m2aad.com/...bulletin-no-10112013

Hang on. It's late and maybe I'm missing something, but that's the bulletin for the very new M2, which only had the problem of some units showing an error message that could not be cleared.

That's not the same as the cutter issue with the older MPAAD, which did not cut a loop properly and thus was involved in the fatality in this thread.

Don't want to get confused - two different bulletins by the same company, both revealed here on dz.com at about the same time.


Premier skydiverek  (C 41769)

Nov 12, 2013, 12:42 AM
Post #9 of 21 (3559 views)
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Re: [pchapman] Fatalitu in Poland? [In reply to] Can't Post

pchapman wrote:
samlee wrote:
The full bulletin is posted here: http://www.m2aad.com/...bulletin-no-10112013

Hang on. It's late and maybe I'm missing something, but that's the bulletin for the very new M2, which only had the problem of some units showing an error message that could not be cleared.

That's not the same as the cutter issue with the older MPAAD, which did not cut a loop properly and thus was involved in the fatality in this thread.

Don't want to get confused - two different bulletins by the same company, both revealed here on dz.com at about the same time.

Correct, two different issues about two different products from the same company:

Mars MPAAD AAD: the "fatality" bulletin.

Mars M2 AAD: the "sensor" bulletin.

Both are now linked in this thread.


Hellis

Nov 12, 2013, 12:59 AM
Post #10 of 21 (3527 views)
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Re: [skydiverek] Fatalitu in Poland? [In reply to] Can't Post

skydiverek wrote:
Probable info:

Student jumper. 29 years old. Stabilized solo jump using a drogue (like a tandem, or some smoke jumper, or military jumper would use). Pulled cutaway instead of drogue release. Did not pull reserve (handle still in the pocket). MPAAD AAD (made by Mars company, maker of M2 AAD) either did not activate, or activated without full success. Hit a sports field at terminal velocity.

How much drag does a drogue like that create?
Enough to go below firespeeds of AADs?


Premier skydiverek  (C 41769)

Nov 12, 2013, 1:14 AM
Post #11 of 21 (3509 views)
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Re: [Hellis] Fatalitu in Poland? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hellis wrote:
skydiverek wrote:
Probable info:

Student jumper. 29 years old. Stabilized solo jump using a drogue (like a tandem, or some smoke jumper, or military jumper would use). Pulled cutaway instead of drogue release. Did not pull reserve (handle still in the pocket). MPAAD AAD (made by Mars company, maker of M2 AAD) either did not activate, or activated without full success. Hit a sports field at terminal velocity.

How much drag does a drogue like that create?
Enough to go below firespeeds of AADs?

Does not matter in this case, because, after impact, the AAD was displaying the code E020, which means "cutter activation or error":

http://lotniczapolska.pl/...oducenta-MPAAD,31496


(This post was edited by skydiverek on Nov 12, 2013, 4:43 AM)


samlee  (C 107240)

Nov 12, 2013, 3:57 AM
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Re: [pchapman] Fatalitu in Poland? [In reply to] Can't Post

Sorry my mistake, you are correct I made an assumption based on both bulletins coming onto my radar on the same day!


Sky_doggy  (C 41295)

Nov 13, 2013, 9:48 AM
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Re: [skydiverek] Fatalitu in Poland? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hello,

Was this a static line training jump? I am not familiar with this type of training or the equipment used and I have a question.

Does the equipment used preclude the use of an RSL?

Thanks.


pchapman  (D 1014)

Nov 13, 2013, 10:04 AM
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Re: [Sky_doggy] Fatalitu in Poland? [In reply to] Can't Post

Sky_doggy wrote:
Hello,
Was this a static line training jump? I am not familiar with this type of training or the equipment used and I have a question.

Not sure about the RSL. But if you don't release your drogue chute, which also acts as the pilot chute for the main, then the main hasn't been deployed (barring out of sequence deployment), and so an RSL would do nothing.

I think a static line would most likely be used to deploy the drogue, but it is still a freefall that's being done.

Think of it a bit like a tandem -- if you are freefalling under the drogue, cutting away the main won't help you, RSL or not.


(This post was edited by pchapman on Nov 13, 2013, 10:07 AM)


Premier skydiverek  (C 41769)

Dec 5, 2013, 3:05 AM
Post #15 of 21 (2212 views)
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Re: [irishrigger] Fatalitu in Poland? [In reply to] Can't Post

New details: cutter's blade did not fully cut the loop. Blade was in contact with the loop, but the loop was not fully cut.

http://www.transport.gov.pl/...30651/20131665RW.pdf

MPAAD AAD manucacturer (Mars) is fixing the blades on the AADs.


FB1609  (C 1409)

Dec 5, 2013, 4:30 AM
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Re: [skydiverek] Fatalitu in Poland? [In reply to] Can't Post

Obviously blades must be made from the best hardened stainless steel available to man, this should never be an issue.


pchapman  (D 1014)

Dec 5, 2013, 5:26 AM
Post #17 of 21 (2050 views)
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Re: [skydiverek] Fatalitu in Poland? [In reply to] Can't Post


Thanks as usual for being dz.com's contact in Poland.
Since those Poles seem to like to write in Polish (for some reason...), I might as well do the google translate thing on the short main section of that report:

Quote:
PART DESCRIPTIVE :
The student - performed jumper jump from a height of about 1000 m to the stabilization of free fall . After separation of the student - jumper from the aircraft , rope commando opened a stabilizer. During stabilized freefall student- only jumper pulled the handle ( pillow ) unhooking the main canopy . The student - jumper collided with the earth on a private estate in the village of Jacewo , suffering death at the scene . Totally pulled the handle unhooking the main parachute lay nearby student body - jumper. In the liquid crystal display machine type MPAAD parachute was visible E020 message indicating the failure or activation of the cutting tip ( cutter ) .
Inspection carried out a set of parachute did not show abnormalities that could impair or prevent the opening of the main canopy or canopy parachute. After removal from the chamber of automatic parachute canopy has been found that the knife of the cutting tip is based on the closing loop , which was not completely cut .
When determining the circumstances of the accident were weaknesses in the documentation of training and documentation organizer jumps. Statements made in the presence of members of the research team SCAAI confirmed the weaknesses identified in the documentation.
ISSUED ad hoc SAFETY
Directed research team recommended that the Director of the Aero Club SCAAI Kujawski , pending the removal of irregularities , suspended parachute training in the subject training organizations Aero Club Kujawski .

So there's no real additional info on the cutter other than that it didn't cut.


Premier skydiverek  (C 41769)

Dec 5, 2013, 12:35 PM
Post #18 of 21 (1773 views)
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Re: [pchapman] Fatalitu in Poland? [In reply to] Can't Post

pchapman wrote:
So there's no real additional info on the cutter other than that it didn't cut.

Correct. I translated this few post above, because it is the only info they have given so far...

It is only the preliminary report. The final one will be approx 20-page long with photos, etc.


(This post was edited by skydiverek on Dec 5, 2013, 12:39 PM)


gowlerk  (C 3196)

Dec 5, 2013, 2:58 PM
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Re: [skydiverek] Fatalitu in Poland? [In reply to] Can't Post

I went to the MarS website to find out what the MPAAD is. It turns out to be a very differnt device from other AADs, It will only mount into a MarS container. It's about the size of a pack of smokes, with the controls and the cutter built into the same unit. The loop passes right through the middle of it. I have no idea what type of cutter it is, but it seems very different from the M2 or anything else.

http://www.marsjev.cz/...ory/mpaad_new_aj.pdf


pchapman  (D 1014)

Dec 5, 2013, 4:29 PM
Post #20 of 21 (1559 views)
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Re: [skydiverek] Fatalitu in Poland? [In reply to] Can't Post

skydiverek wrote:
It is only the preliminary report. The final one will be approx 20-page long with photos, etc.

As with the Argus related accident a few years back in Poland, thanks. Sorry about your student skydivers, but at least you get detailed reports when weird things happen with AADs there...


Nelyubin  (D 18617)

Dec 6, 2013, 3:20 PM
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Re: [pchapman] Fatalitu in Poland? [In reply to] Can't Post

gowlerk wrote:
I have no idea what type of cutter it is, but it seems very different from the M2 or anything else.

Here's a
http://eshop.marsjev.cz/...ice/n-3.html?lang=en
http://eshop.marsjev.cz/...ukty2/obrazek_11.jpg


(This post was edited by Nelyubin on Dec 6, 2013, 3:26 PM)



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