Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Swooping and Canopy Control:
groundlaunching a Stiletto ???

 

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cdhezel  (B License)

Sep 19, 2013, 1:38 PM
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groundlaunching a Stiletto ??? Can't Post

Does anyone have any experience groundlaunching and speedflying a Stiletto? Any constructive tips appreciated

CD


Bluhdow  (B 37052)

Sep 19, 2013, 3:24 PM
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Re: [cdhezel] groundlaunching a Stiletto ??? [In reply to] Can't Post

I've done it a handful of times. Stiletto 135.

It's way easier in a slight headwind (enough to kite). Launching that thing off the ground requires a lot of space to run and the option to bail if needed.

I'd only launch it at forgiving sites. If you need to get up and flying fast...get a GLX or a proper speedwing.


uberchris  (A License)

Sep 19, 2013, 11:05 PM
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Re: [Bluhdow] groundlaunching a Stiletto ??? [In reply to] Can't Post

get yourself a swing mirage (subjective statement obviously). with all the advances in wings why use a skycanopy? if youre totally broke i feel ya though.
ive flown a few times in idaho with a buddy who routinely launched a stilletto 190. even that thing was a fuckin beast to get launched, i remember him having to run it out for a WHILE every time, and that was on a much bigger canopy than a 135


Maxx  (D 9594)

Sep 20, 2013, 2:52 AM
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Re: [cdhezel] groundlaunching a Stiletto ??? [In reply to] Can't Post

Possible, but not adviseable..
I did it on a long skislope, which was in the end not steep enough to keep it flying for long.. Ran my ass off, hovered a bit and came down again.. Was a good workout, though! Wink


AliMac  (B 34289)

Sep 20, 2013, 11:08 AM
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Re: [cdhezel] groundlaunching a Stiletto ??? [In reply to] Can't Post

I started ground launching on a stiletto 135, made the transition from skydiving to ground launching/speedflying a little easier since I knew the flight characteristics and controls better. Needed a lot of space to run. Switched over to a real speedwing after a few little baby flights.


cdhezel  (B License)

Sep 20, 2013, 12:50 PM
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Re: [Bluhdow] groundlaunching a Stiletto ??? [In reply to] Can't Post

thanks for the feedback, it is more experiment than development, thought to give it a go on the ski slopes as I am up there boarding anyway, if it grabs me I will start looking at a speed wing...Cool


ChrisD  (No License)

Sep 20, 2013, 1:40 PM
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Re: [cdhezel] groundlaunching a Stiletto ??? [In reply to] Can't Post

There are some great vids on the internet, on ski hills and such.

For the life of me I can't remember their names?

Gravity Pilots was one of them,??? Anyone???

C

You might want to check these people out as well:

http://www.speedflysoboba.com/


An or: http://www.expandingknowledge.com/...chnique_FlyingSkills


(This post was edited by ChrisD on Sep 20, 2013, 3:21 PM)


westcoastSD

Sep 22, 2013, 1:30 AM
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Re: [cdhezel] groundlaunching a Stiletto ??? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi have launched a stiletto 120 quite a few times and even on advanced hills flying with buddies that have dedicated speed wings... I have also used crossfire and various others.

ST120 is like an 11.5 or so 135 is like a 14 or so.

They glide similar but dive (much) more than a speed wing... if you are not giving big inputs you can use one just fine. I even launched with very little wind.

I have always used parachutes for speed flying and speed riding, but have also used only steep hills.

Stiletto is about as close to a speed wing as you can get by using a parachute. Short lines and short recovery arc, quite elliptical.


be safe and have fun.


(This post was edited by westcoastSD on Sep 22, 2013, 1:33 AM)


cdhezel  (B License)

Sep 22, 2013, 12:23 PM
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Re: [westcoastSD] groundlaunching a Stiletto ??? [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for the feedback, it has been quite positive in all an I am looking forward to giving it a go in winter, will post the result....Cool


yoink

Sep 22, 2013, 4:41 PM
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Re: [cdhezel] groundlaunching a Stiletto ??? [In reply to] Can't Post

There is no good reason to use skydiving canopies for groundlaunching anymore.

6 or 7 years ago when the sport was in its infancy and there weren't really many options you used what you had and had to unlearn the bad lessons you learnt as a result of the gear.

Today there are so many options available for new and used gear that it's stupid to accept the increased risk of using gear not designed for that environment.

Let me ask you a question - would you use skydiving gear for an average BASE jump? Unless you're an idiot, you'll be saying 'no'. I want a BASE specific canopy and container.

It's the same for groundlaunching. Skydiving canopies SUCK in that environment. They're difficult to launch, MUCH less tolerant of turbulence and typically don't have the range of a speedflying wing.

You CAN do it, but you shouldn't.


Pick up a cheap second hand wing.


(This post was edited by yoink on Sep 22, 2013, 4:43 PM)


shropshire  (C License)

Sep 23, 2013, 12:47 AM
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Re: [yoink] groundlaunching a Stiletto ??? [In reply to] Can't Post

yeap...... Still love my Nano and wouldn't dream of Speedriding my Katana. .. Different horses for different courses.


AdD  (D License)

Sep 24, 2013, 7:19 AM
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Re: [yoink] groundlaunching a Stiletto ??? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
There is no good reason to use skydiving canopies for groundlaunching anymore.

Great advice, once you have flown a real speedwing you'll never go back. A close friend of mine died as a result of speedflying a skydiving canopy. You may get 2:1 glide on your Stiletto but I get 5:1 on my Bobcat.


hangdiver  (D License)

Sep 24, 2013, 8:03 AM
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Re: [cdhezel] groundlaunching a Stiletto ??? [In reply to] Can't Post

Be very careful with advice from people you don't know...I believe westcoastsd was killed speed flying a mountain in my back yard 24 hours after giving that glowing recommendation on ground launching a stiletto.

I don't know all the details I hope he was flying a para glider, that would make way more sense.

I have flown that mountain numerous times in a hang glider. The day he attempted to fly it was a very turbulent day and a front had just moved through, the conditions were very unstable.

Flying close to any mountain should only be done in the most calm conditions. That mountain gave me worst CAT(clear air turbulence)that I've ever felt. It slammed me into the gliders keel three times and almost knocked me out.

http://www.pressdemocrat.com/...2/articles/130929873

Condolences for all family and friends.

BSBD

hangdiver


yoink

Sep 24, 2013, 9:59 AM
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Re: [hangdiver] groundlaunching a Stiletto ??? [In reply to] Can't Post

I've been saying for years that skydivers don't treat groundlaunching or speedflying with enough respect.

We're taught nothing about micrometeorology in skydiving, yet somehow don't think to take the time to learn despite it being a critical factor in mountain flying. Unsure

Too many people think it's just a case of hiking up then running off...


hangdiver  (D License)

Sep 24, 2013, 12:26 PM
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Re: [yoink] groundlaunching a Stiletto ??? [In reply to] Can't Post

 
Quote:
Too many people think it's just a case of hiking up then running off...

Very, very true!

I learned the hard way...but survived in spite of all the screw ups I did before reading and rereading micrometeorology by dennis pagan and everything else I could find on the subject. That was after losing many friends and crashing myself when learning to hang glide in the mid 1970's.

I think we are losing many proxy wingsuiters for the same reason...a small gust...a thermal off the rocks...or what I think got westcoastSD...lee side rotors.

Never fly the lee side of mountains...no matter where the vultures are flying...they are shitty flyers...never follow a vulture...I've seen them soar the lee side rotor and bounce off of the trees...stupid birds.

hangdiver


piisfish

Sep 24, 2013, 12:41 PM
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Re: [hangdiver] groundlaunching a Stiletto ??? [In reply to] Can't Post

hangdiver wrote:
Be very careful with advice from people you don't know...I believe westcoastsd was killed speed flying a mountain in my back yard 24 hours after giving that glowing recommendation on ground launching a stiletto.
are you positive it is the same person ? Unsure


hangdiver  (D License)

Sep 24, 2013, 1:25 PM
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Re: [piisfish] groundlaunching a Stiletto ??? [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm pretty sure...I could be wrong...because I don't know him.

Did you read the article? he has a distinct name.

If I'm wrong my bad...but my research pretty much confirms it.

same guy who did the W.A.R.D.O. or W.A.R.D.

hangdiver


(This post was edited by hangdiver on Sep 24, 2013, 1:35 PM)


shropshire  (C License)

Sep 24, 2013, 1:56 PM
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Re: [hangdiver] groundlaunching a Stiletto ??? [In reply to] Can't Post

hangdiver wrote:
Never fly the lee side of mountains...no matter where the vultures are flying...they are shitty flyers...never follow a vulture...I've seen them soar the lee side rotor and bounce off of the trees...stupid birds.

hangdiver

They're not always daft .... I was flying (Paraglider) with one in Spain a few years back .. having a lovely time thermalling (quite close) - beautiful sight.... Then it leaves .. O.K I think - it knows better than me , off to the next thermal......
No - the bugger must have been called in for it's lunch by it's mom .. and promptly landed - bugger ... so not long later, so did I.... persky birds.


westcoastSD

Sep 27, 2013, 11:27 AM
Post #19 of 82 (7038 views)
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Re: [hangdiver] groundlaunching a Stiletto ??? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Be very careful with advice from people you don't know...I believe westcoastsd was killed speed flying a mountain in my back yard 24 hours after giving that glowing recommendation on ground launching a stiletto.

LOL nope.

and for the dousches saying that ground launching a parachute is not appropriate... what do you think of the GLX?

Is that apropriate?


(This post was edited by westcoastSD on Sep 27, 2013, 11:35 AM)


uberchris  (A License)

Sep 27, 2013, 12:54 PM
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Re: [hangdiver] groundlaunching a Stiletto ??? [In reply to] Can't Post

RIP walden grindle
i did not know him, as i am still yet to jump at davis, but i heard this a few days ago.
all i have read on alot of friends FB pages is that norcal lost a good one.......
BSBD bro

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/...Mount-St-Helena.html


hangdiver  (D License)

Sep 28, 2013, 8:12 AM
Post #21 of 82 (6844 views)
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Re: [westcoastSD] groundlaunching a Stiletto ??? [In reply to] Can't Post

glad your still with us westcoastsd...my humblest of apologiesBlush

how many speed flyers are there named Walden?

well...one less now BSBD


hangdiver


dqpacker  (D 32043)

Sep 28, 2013, 9:54 AM
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Re: [westcoastSD] groundlaunching a Stiletto ??? [In reply to] Can't Post

westcoastSD wrote:
In reply to:
Be very careful with advice from people you don't know...I believe westcoastsd was killed speed flying a mountain in my back yard 24 hours after giving that glowing recommendation on ground launching a stiletto.

LOL nope.

and for the dousches saying that ground launching a parachute is not appropriate... what do you think of the GLX?

Is that apropriate?
what do you think about skydiving a GLX? no? that's because its not a skydiving canopy, not saying you can't ground launch a skydiving canopy but your example doesn't work.


westcoastSD

Sep 28, 2013, 10:42 AM
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Re: [dqpacker] groundlaunching a Stiletto ??? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
what do you think about skydiving a GLX? no? that's because its not a skydiving canopy, not saying you can't ground launch a skydiving canopy but your example doesn't work.

You cannot jump a GLX you are correct, they do not have the binding tape and reinforced attachment points but apart from the open nose (which a stiletto has) a GLX is in every way a JVX.

From airfoil to line trim. This was clarified to me by the nice fellows at NZAerosports, ask them yourself if you do not believe me.

so yes my example does work and like in the skydiving scene I would not recommend someone to use a GLX first time or for their hundredth time unless they are already a seasoned canopy pilot.

A speed wing does fly different, very different. That in itself brings it's own peril.

If you fly any wing be it a paraglider or a parachute on the lee side you are looking to get spanked.

I have witnessed a very close friend (quite experienced) do this on his paraglider in light winds. He is lucky to be alive.

And that said, paragliding and speed flying wings would not exist without skydivers foot launching parachutes.

Stilettos are more than appropriate than a JVX but you can still launch a JVX, I have done that too, simply do not turn yourself into the ground, just like you should never steer your car/mountain bike/skis off a cliff!


(This post was edited by westcoastSD on Sep 28, 2013, 10:48 AM)


yoink

Sep 29, 2013, 4:20 PM
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yoink

Sep 29, 2013, 4:23 PM
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Re: [yoink] groundlaunching a Stiletto ??? [In reply to] Can't Post

westcoastSD wrote:

and for the dousches saying that ground launching a parachute is not appropriate... what do you think of the GLX?

Is that apropriate?

It depends what you mean by 'appropriate'.

Is it a redesigned skydiving wing tweaked to perform better in hilly terrain? yes.

Would I suggest that's it's safer than a standard parachute? Yes.

Is it suitable for all people? No - it's a wing for an advanced and current pilot.

Is it suitable for all conditions? No - It's fine until you get into big mountains, then I'd prefer a speedwing for the added resilience to collapses and the much much shorter recovery arcs and greater glide range.
Quote:
From airfoil to line trim. This was clarified to me by the nice fellows at NZAerosports, ask them yourself if you do not believe me.

and I've flown with guys who were test pilots for it and they say different. I've also flown them both back to back and side by side and to me, they fly differently.


Regardless of your distraction of the GLX, the original post was about the suitability of launching a Stilletto - I stand by my original answer:

You can, but it's stupid with more modern gear available, particularly for a beginner.
No responsible groundlaunching instructor anywhere in the world would say any different.


(This post was edited by yoink on Sep 29, 2013, 6:16 PM)


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