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Dropzones That Check Wingloading?

 

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Poll: Dropzones That Check Wingloading?
I've never been to one that checked 52 / 51%
I've been to one that collected the information but didn't restrict wingloading 20 / 20%
I've been to one that checked wingloading and had restrictions 28 / 27%
Other 2 / 2%
102 total votes
 
Premier NWFlyer  (D 29960)

Jun 7, 2013, 8:01 PM
Post #1 of 34 (3185 views)
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Dropzones That Check Wingloading? Can't Post

There's a comment in the "400 jumps velo 111" thread about why the jumper's current dropzone isn't checking. "Who looked at his log book, took his waiver, checked his repack, verified his wing loading and let him do this at their dz?"

It got me to thinking through the check-in process at the 25+ DZs I've visited. Of all those, I can recall exactly one, SDAZ, that asked for my wingloading. My understanding is that's used by Mr. Burke in his ongoing analysis of incidents (fatalities, injuries, and close calls), but to be honest, I don't know for sure if they use that information to tell someone "You can't jump that here." I've seen SDAZ ground people, but what I've observed is that it's after some repeated violation of the dropzone rules observed by a ground safety officer, not solely because they're jumping a canopy they can't handle (though of course that might lead to a rules violation).

At every other DZ I've visited, I have rarely even been asked about what I jump (main/reserve/container). My credentials are almost universally checked (license, membership, repack date), and currency is occasionally checked (though less often since I've had my D).

But wingloading? Almost never. Is it because I don't fit the stereotype of a HP canopy pilot, and since I'm walking in to get my gear checked holding my container that is clearly not holding a small HP canopy that the conversation doesn't ever need to come up? Or is it because there really aren't any dropzones that are checking?


hcsvader  (E 2952)

Jun 7, 2013, 11:08 PM
Post #2 of 34 (3096 views)
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Re: [NWFlyer] Dropzones That Check Wingloading? [In reply to] Can't Post

Ive been to about 50 DZs and i would guess that the majority have not asked what kind of gear i am jumping and maybe only a few have asked about my WL. I also find it pretty easy to find myself on a load without any kind of credential check such as license or reserve check.
The last boogie I went to did not as me about the type of gear I have, but did license and reserve check. There was a low time jumper there who had his rig grounded for having a very small reserve in it, but i think that may have been brought to their attention beforehand.


theplummeter  (C License)

Jun 7, 2013, 11:25 PM
Post #3 of 34 (3083 views)
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Re: [hcsvader] Dropzones That Check Wingloading? [In reply to] Can't Post

Mile High in Longmont, CO had me step on a scale and asked about my main last time I went there to jump.


-Joey-  (B License)

Jun 7, 2013, 11:58 PM
Post #4 of 34 (3065 views)
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Re: [NWFlyer] Dropzones That Check Wingloading? [In reply to] Can't Post

Thankfully, no, I haven't been to a DZ that's gone full Gestapo mode on every jumper who ever shows up. Even the recent NSA Verizon scandal would be less disturbing than that.


AdamUSN  (A 57465)

Jun 8, 2013, 6:01 AM
Post #5 of 34 (2978 views)
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Re: [-Joey-] Dropzones That Check Wingloading? [In reply to] Can't Post

1337 is that supposed to say Leet, as in Elite, in some kind of cryptic AOL talk?


Southern_Man  (C License)

Jun 8, 2013, 6:20 AM
Post #6 of 34 (2961 views)
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Re: [AdamUSN] Dropzones That Check Wingloading? [In reply to] Can't Post

I've been checked for currency, license, USPA membership, and repack date but don't remember ever being asked about my wingloading. I've been asked my weight (for weight/balance) but not in conjunction w/ canopy size. I've been to 10-12 DZs, so not a huge sample.


Squeak  (E 1313)

Jun 8, 2013, 7:59 AM
Post #7 of 34 (2913 views)
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Re: [hcsvader] Dropzones That Check Wingloading? [In reply to] Can't Post

in 10.5 years of jumping in different countries around the world NOT ONE Dz has asked for wingload info.
Only 2 have ever asked what canopy I fly (both at boogies and both in OZ).
The most I have had at any other DZ is a Repack card check, not even a look to see if the rig is airworthy.


brucet7  (C 38954)

Jun 8, 2013, 9:40 AM
Post #8 of 34 (2877 views)
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Re: [NWFlyer] Dropzones That Check Wingloading? [In reply to] Can't Post

I haven't done much visiting. I have been asked what size my canopy is, and I assume they looked at me and thought that was about right. One I misspoke and said 130 instead of 230 (my mind was elsewhere). All the check in girl did was ask if anyone at my DZ cared and then yelled across the hanger how stupid my DZ was. Once I corrected my number, she said, "oh, that is not bad." [Granted, there is not the best blood between these two DZs] And once an instructor looked at my rig and said with a smile, "Nice tandem rig."


fpritchett64  (A 50565)

Jun 8, 2013, 10:04 AM
Post #9 of 34 (2864 views)
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Re: [AdamUSN] Dropzones That Check Wingloading? [In reply to] Can't Post

AdamUSN wrote:
1337 is that supposed to say Leet, as in Elite, in some kind of cryptic AOL talk?

Yea, his real jump numbers are somewhere under 50. The 1337 jumps listed make his small person complex feel better (1.1 WL on a 150) and gives him hope that an inexperienced jumper will listen to him.


demoknite  (D License)

Jun 8, 2013, 10:44 AM
Post #10 of 34 (2843 views)
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Re: [NWFlyer] Dropzones That Check Wingloading? [In reply to] Can't Post

I think a lot of DZs do it subconsciously. They look at the rig youve declared then look at you. Even if youre a heavier guy jumping a 150ish it probably wont raise any eyebrows. Im not sure how I feel about having to step on scale when I check in at a new DZ or after winter break at my home DZ when I might have put on 20 pounds.


demoknite  (D License)

Jun 8, 2013, 10:48 AM
Post #11 of 34 (2831 views)
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Re: [brucet7] Dropzones That Check Wingloading? [In reply to] Can't Post

brucet7 wrote:
"Nice tandem rig."

Seemingly benign statements like this are one of the reasons people want to jump small canopies before they are able.


Andy9o8  (D License)

Jun 8, 2013, 11:48 AM
Post #12 of 34 (2803 views)
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Re: [demoknite] Dropzones That Check Wingloading? [In reply to] Can't Post

demoknite wrote:
brucet7 wrote:
"Nice tandem rig."

Seemingly benign statements like this are one of the reasons people want to jump small canopies before they are able.

Agreed 100%. Yeah, there's no social pressure to downsize. CrazyUnsure


grimmie  (D 18890)

Jun 8, 2013, 12:05 PM
Post #13 of 34 (2795 views)
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Re: [NWFlyer] Dropzones That Check Wingloading? [In reply to] Can't Post

Everyone at my DZ gets a briefing out in the landing area, covering all aspects of our operation, airport operations and what rules they need to follow in the plane, jump run, freefall and canopy flight and landing. The waiver has a check off box for gear, license and LZ briefing.

We always ask the jumpers we don't know what size canopy they fly.


Squeak  (E 1313)

Jun 8, 2013, 5:38 PM
Post #14 of 34 (2678 views)
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Re: [demoknite] Dropzones That Check Wingloading? [In reply to] Can't Post

demoknite wrote:
I think a lot of DZs do it subconsciously. They look at the rig youve declared then look at you. Even if youre a heavier guy jumping a 150ish it probably wont raise any eyebrows. Im not sure how I feel about having to step on scale when I check in at a new DZ or after winter break at my home DZ when I might have put on 20 pounds.
feel good about the scales it means that someone cares enough to make sure that thr plane isn't overloaded and perhaps what you WL might be


nigel99  (D 1)

Jun 8, 2013, 9:00 PM
Post #15 of 34 (2606 views)
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Re: [Squeak] Dropzones That Check Wingloading? [In reply to] Can't Post

Squeak wrote:
in 10.5 years of jumping in different countries around the world NOT ONE Dz has asked for wingload info.
Only 2 have ever asked what canopy I fly (both at boogies and both in OZ).
The most I have had at any other DZ is a Repack card check, not even a look to see if the rig is airworthy.

At J.Bay they inspected my gear, didn't they check yours? I know that at York it is generally pretty rigorous and that Andy will go over visitors gear.

As to the questions about wingloading etc, I think that it might be based on reputation and license. It is such a small world over here people like you are pretty much known and accepted or banned as appropriateTongue

The US is such a mess in terms of coherent enforcement and the general attitude towards any form of rules, that I'm not surprised nobody asks or checks.


Premier Remster  (C License)

Jun 8, 2013, 9:19 PM
Post #16 of 34 (2604 views)
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Re: [nigel99] Dropzones That Check Wingloading? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
coherent enforcement

Enforcement of what?


nigel99  (D 1)

Jun 8, 2013, 10:04 PM
Post #17 of 34 (2579 views)
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Re: [Remster] Dropzones That Check Wingloading? [In reply to] Can't Post

Remster wrote:
Quote:
coherent enforcement

Enforcement of what?

Pretty much any rules, be it cloud clearance, gopros or sensible canopy choices.


gowlerk  (C 3196)

Jun 8, 2013, 10:12 PM
Post #18 of 34 (2576 views)
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Re: [nigel99] Dropzones That Check Wingloading? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
The US is such a mess in terms of coherent enforcement and the general attitude towards any form of rules, that I'm not surprised nobody asks or checks.

Australia and most of Europe are the Nanny States. This happens where governments allow parachute associations to be regulatory agencies. Just say no to Nanny States. So far both USPA and CSPA have no regulatory functions. You don't need to belong or follow their rules to open a DZ.

You can keep your coherent enforcement. The only people who benefit are bureaucrats who get jobs paid for by exorbitant membership fees that are mandatory in those countries. And costs that keep skydiving pretty much an upper middle class activity.


Squeak  (E 1313)

Jun 9, 2013, 5:53 AM
Post #19 of 34 (2515 views)
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Re: [gowlerk] Dropzones That Check Wingloading? [In reply to] Can't Post

gowlerk wrote:
Quote:
The US is such a mess in terms of coherent enforcement and the general attitude towards any form of rules, that I'm not surprised nobody asks or checks.

Australia and most of Europe are the Nanny States. This happens where governments allow parachute associations to be regulatory agencies. Just say no to Nanny States. So far both USPA and CSPA have no regulatory functions. You don't need to belong or follow their rules to open a DZ.

You can keep your coherent enforcement. The only people who benefit are bureaucrats who get jobs paid for by exorbitant membership fees that are mandatory in those countries. And costs that keep skydiving pretty much an upper middle class activity.
LOL SlyShockedSlyUnimpressedyou obviously don't know many aussie jumpers not that many are "upper middle class" Sly
Our yearly membership for me was $170 this year (4 jump tickets) not to "exorbitant" in my world


(This post was edited by Squeak on Jun 9, 2013, 5:57 AM)


gowlerk  (C 3196)

Jun 9, 2013, 6:34 AM
Post #20 of 34 (2499 views)
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Re: [Squeak] Dropzones That Check Wingloading? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
LOL SlyShockedSlyUnimpressedyou obviously don't know many aussie jumpers not that many are "upper middle class" Sly
Our yearly membership for me was $170 this year (4 jump tickets) not to "exorbitant" in my world


Ok, but still twice as much as the $85 CDN that I give to CSPA. ( includes 1 million 3rd party liability insurance) Glad to hear that plain blokes can afford to jump down under! But I would note that your$170 AUD would buy you about 5 jump tickets in Canada and 7 in the USA.


(This post was edited by gowlerk on Jun 9, 2013, 6:41 AM)


Premier Remster  (C License)

Jun 9, 2013, 8:01 AM
Post #21 of 34 (2478 views)
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Re: [nigel99] Dropzones That Check Wingloading? [In reply to] Can't Post

nigel99 wrote:
Remster wrote:
Quote:
coherent enforcement

Enforcement of what?

Pretty much any rules, be it cloud clearance, gopros or sensible canopy choices.

There are no "rules" on GoPro's or canopy choice.

That's why I asked. You call for coherent enforcement when there are no rule to enforce.


skyjumpenfool  (Student)

Jun 9, 2013, 8:21 AM
Post #22 of 34 (2473 views)
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Re: [Remster] Dropzones That Check Wingloading? [In reply to] Can't Post

Remster wrote:
nigel99 wrote:
Remster wrote:
Quote:
coherent enforcement

Enforcement of what?

Pretty much any rules, be it cloud clearance, gopros or sensible canopy choices.

There are no "rules" on GoPro's or canopy choice.

That's why I asked. You call for coherent enforcement when there are no rule to enforce.

I tend to agree with Remster on the lack of rules issue. What are DZO's suppose to enforce?

However, as I travel from DZ to DZ (US), I've always been drilled about canopy size/experience/currency/etc. when first arriving at a drop zone. It doesn't seem to take them long to figure out just how totally incompetent I really am??? Smile


Premier wmw999  (D 6296)

Jun 9, 2013, 8:27 AM
Post #23 of 34 (2469 views)
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Re: [skyjumpenfool] Dropzones That Check Wingloading? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
However, as I travel from DZ to DZ (US), I've always been drilled about canopy size/experience/currency/etc. when first arriving at a drop zone.
I wouldn't call it grilling -- I have to put on my waiver my gear (sometimes), and my D license number, and sometimes I have to show my logbook. No one has ever questioned me on gear choice.

But that may also be because I'm obviously female, and not particularly young, therefore perceived to be unlikely to be swooping. When checked, my gear doesn't look particularly small, and wouldn't set off any alarms.

Wendy P.


mx19  (D License)

Jun 9, 2013, 12:35 PM
Post #24 of 34 (2415 views)
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Re: [NWFlyer] Dropzones That Check Wingloading? [In reply to] Can't Post

Ill repeat that as i said in the other thread, we check canopy/wingloading (not so much specific wingloading but will make a guess) and turned away a reasonably un-current jumper with 700ish jumps recently who wanted to jump his velocity.


Squeak  (E 1313)

Jun 9, 2013, 5:43 PM
Post #25 of 34 (2341 views)
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Re: [gowlerk] Dropzones That Check Wingloading? [In reply to] Can't Post

gowlerk wrote:
But I would note that your$170 AUD would buy you about 5 jump tickets in Canada and 7 in the USA.

So what?
Our standard of living here is different to either Canada or the USofA, that has ZERO to do with our sports governing body. Fuel alone here is more than 2x that of the USofA.


(This post was edited by Squeak on Jun 9, 2013, 5:44 PM)


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