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Demerit points and fines coming to an Australian DZ near you

 


hollyrose  (D License)

Jun 2, 2013, 2:35 AM
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Demerit points and fines coming to an Australian DZ near you Can't Post

Below is a post from Skysurfer.com (the Aussie skydiving forum). We'd love to hear the opinions of the international community on the proposed demerit point and fine system for Australian Skyiving.

Original post on SS can be found here-http://bit.ly/11wTBcA

Demerit points and fines coming to an Australian DZ near you
Has the APF gone mad?

Hi all,

Below is the link to a proposal document from the APF. In a nutshell, it details a system of demerit points and fines that will be applicable to skydivers that break any of the OP regs (intentionally or not).

I got a copy of this from Phillipa Bates, who decided to share it. I am posting it here as I think its an important matter we all need to be aware of as early as possible. I'm sure we will hear from APF representatives in this thread that this is only a proposal and it is not in the right stage for public consultation. I don't know who determines what the 'right stage' is but I think we should have been notified the day someone came up with this *insert profanity* policy.

http://bit.ly/15sFolt - note, this is a dropbox.com link that will download the document in word format.

Now, personally I have always had a bit of a problem with over-regulation of any activity. But this goes beyond anything I could have imagined, even from the APF.

This is hearsay, but someone quoted Susan Bostock saying 'if you don't do anything wrong, you won't have anything to worry about'. I'm not concerned about being fined but I do have a lot to worry about, starting with some of these questions -

Is this the best way to spend the APF money? (ie. Part of this comes from membership dues... so its Your money).
Think of the time spend just compiling this document. Then think of the paperwork and and time policing and monitoring it? And an appeals tribunal? You've got to be kidding me!?
Personally I'd rather see monthly safety training seminars coordinated and funded by the APF at every DZ. Prevention not punishment after the fact...

Whats next? Yearly Registration fees for rigs including pink slips? At what point do we say - enough is enough?


As Phillipa said to me - I hope people are not scared to speak up and post about this serious matter. If we don't it might be approved.

I highly recommend you read the document and start talking about it to everyone you know.

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(This post was edited by hollyrose on Jun 2, 2013, 2:59 AM)


bucketlistpilot  (D 1204)

Jun 2, 2013, 4:45 AM
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Re: [hollyrose] Demerit points and fines coming to an Australian DZ near you [In reply to] Can't Post

I think the APF needs to change plenty of things before this.

I grudgingly paid full annual membership last year even though I knew I'd be lucky to do more than 5/6 jumps. I've done 2 at home in Oz up until now with 30 days left before renewal comes around again.

I would have happily taken out 3 month temp membership each time I wanted to jump, but was told that because I'd previously had full membership the temp option was not available to me. $180+ membership for 1 day jumping in Oz - think I'll be letting it slide this year.

Maybe I'd be fined for not jumping enough there.


peek  (D 8884)

Jun 2, 2013, 6:34 AM
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Re: [hollyrose] Demerit points and fines coming to an Australian DZ near you [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Below is a post from Skysurfer.com (the Aussie skydiving forum). We'd love to hear the opinions of the international community on the proposed demerit point and fine system for Australian Skydiving.

Below is the link to a proposal document from the APF. In a nutshell, it details a system of demerit points and fines that will be applicable to skydivers that break any of the OP regulations (intentionally or not).

It is overly complicated. And what I have found from working with complicated rules and procedures is that the interaction among them is complicated too.

Who is going to keep track of all of these things? Does the APF have a membership database with entries for these additional pieces of information? Will a dropzone be able to look up how many "demerits" someone has?

Are there so many APF members violating so many rules that people think this kind of thing is necessary? In other words, what has created the desire for such a system?


milehigheric  (C License)

Jun 2, 2013, 6:07 PM
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Re: [peek] Demerit points and fines coming to an Australian DZ near you [In reply to] Can't Post

I will stop jumping before I allow my money to be wasted like this. I have had nothing but respect for the APF until now. Their incident investigations, event funding etc is vital to the sport in Aus. As a weekend warrior I have had no issues paying $2 something a jump for these services (average around 70 jumps a year, $170 per year fee) but demerits...no way.


SLiDtec  (E License)

Jun 2, 2013, 11:16 PM
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Re: [milehigheric] Demerit points and fines coming to an Australian DZ near you [In reply to] Can't Post

Really this would take it to far. We are legislated enough without adding more to it. We have more rules then the USA. It has worked fine the way it is now. I'm sick of when someone makes a mistake everyone else pays for it, in this case its coming out of our pockets this time..


HUPRA  (D 5203)

Jun 4, 2013, 2:18 AM
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Re: [hollyrose] Demerit points and fines coming to an Australian DZ near you [In reply to] Can't Post

What a crock of shit, I wonder who came up with that idea. This pretty much sums up why Australia is going down the drain Crazy


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Jun 4, 2013, 5:51 AM
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Re: [HUPRA] Demerit points and fines coming to an Australian DZ near you [In reply to] Can't Post

So far, it seems he main objection is cost of development and maintenance.

Question:
If the demerit system caused a bozo to cease and desist with his stupdity making it safer for you, would you still be opposed based on cost?

Personally, I'd rather see grounding coupled with fines if the program was indeed adopted.


Yes, I'm U.S. and have no dog in this hunt....just food for thought.


strife  (D 5457)

Jun 4, 2013, 6:35 AM
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Re: [popsjumper] Demerit points and fines coming to an Australian DZ near you [In reply to] Can't Post

I agree to me the carrot is jumping and the stick is grounding. A structured consistant educate warning then grounding program should be enough to correct the behaviour instead of a complex demerit system fine system.


HUPRA  (D 5203)

Jun 4, 2013, 6:59 AM
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Re: [popsjumper] Demerit points and fines coming to an Australian DZ near you [In reply to] Can't Post

popsjumper wrote:
So far, it seems he main objection is cost of development and maintenance.

Question:
If the demerit system caused a bozo to cease and desist with his stupdity making it safer for you, would you still be opposed based on cost?

Personally, I'd rather see grounding coupled with fines if the program was indeed adopted.


Yes, I'm U.S. and have no dog in this hunt....just food for thought.

True, however I think getting a $400 fine for an inadvertant safety breach is going a bit far. If its a repeat offender who knows better than that is a different matter.

Personally I can't see it working, purely because most people who get fined at one DZ, in a manner that they think is unfair, will just give that DZ the finger and jump elsewhere. As a result DZs will be unwilling to hand out demerit points....



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