Forums: Skydiving: Incidents:
Tandem pair hits horizontal stabilizer

 


brentcair  (D 14435)

May 20, 2013, 3:46 AM
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Tandem pair hits horizontal stabilizer Can't Post

Happened at a place called 516-skydive on Long Island on Friday. Only details known at this point is that the c-182's horizontal stabilizer was bent about 45 degrees and the pilot declared an emergency. It then landed safely at Westhampton airport a short distance away.


DBCOOPER  (D 24112)

May 20, 2013, 5:08 AM
Post #2 of 19 (4490 views)
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Re: [brentcair] Tandem pair hits horizontal stabilizer [In reply to] Can't Post

Had to be the drogue or a premature deployment. No way a tandem pair could hit the stabilizer unless the plane was out of control.
In reply to:


DougH  (D License)

May 20, 2013, 7:29 AM
Post #3 of 19 (4238 views)
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Re: [DBCOOPER] Tandem pair hits horizontal stabilizer [In reply to] Can't Post

Hopefully if that was the case the pair went under, and the drogue went over, and it was the tension that bent the stabilizer, not the body of the pair.

All of my tandems, just scratching the surface TI experience wise, have been out of narrow body 182's. It is hard work, and you need move around carefully!

This is a good reminder to give one more feel for the drogue when you have been banging around in the door a bit with a less than graceful student.


(This post was edited by DougH on May 20, 2013, 7:30 AM)


linebckr83  (D 30571)

May 20, 2013, 8:41 AM
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Re: [DougH] Tandem pair hits horizontal stabilizer [In reply to] Can't Post

DougH wrote:
Hopefully if that was the case the pair went under, and the drogue went over, and it was the tension that bent the stabilizer, not the body of the pair.

From third hand information, that is what happened. I give the drogue a final touch before finally climbing out also.


irishrigger  (D 297)

May 20, 2013, 9:26 AM
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Re: [linebckr83] Tandem pair hits horizontal stabilizer [In reply to] Can't Post

I have done quiet a few tandem out of our C182, and i am 6'5 and 300 lbs.i do a dive exit and i have my hand ON the drogue when i get my body out of the 182, to prevent accidental deployment.
when i train potential tandem masters, i make that very clear to them, and i show them how to exit and protecting the drogue on the way out, and then also lots of ground practise with and with out a student attached.

glad to hear that the tandem and Pilot made it down safely!

Rodger


BillyVance  (D 18895)

May 20, 2013, 9:58 AM
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Re: [irishrigger] Tandem pair hits horizontal stabilizer [In reply to] Can't Post

While not a tandem, I was in the back of a C182 widebody when a tall static line student didn't crouch down on orders by the jumpmaster, and he snagged the pin on the door handle, pilot chute over the horizontal stabilizer and student under it, barely! Shocked Broke a bone in his foot landing a round reserve on the taxiway. Horizontal stabilizer was bent about 3 or 4 inches back at the wingtip. So the plane was grounded.


skytash  (D 100388)

May 20, 2013, 10:06 PM
Post #7 of 19 (3391 views)
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Re: [BillyVance] Tandem pair hits horizontal stabilizer [In reply to] Can't Post

BillyVance wrote:
While not a tandem, I was in the back of a C182 widebody when a tall static line student didn't crouch down on orders by the jumpmaster, and he snagged the pin on the door handle, pilot chute over the horizontal stabilizer and student under it, barely! Shocked Broke a bone in his foot landing a round reserve on the taxiway. Horizontal stabilizer was bent about 3 or 4 inches back at the wingtip. So the plane was grounded.


skytash  (D 100388)

May 21, 2013, 5:40 PM
Post #8 of 19 (2911 views)
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Re: [skytash] Tandem pair hits horizontal stabilizer [In reply to] Can't Post

skytash wrote:
BillyVance wrote:
While not a tandem, I was in the back of a C182 widebody when a tall static line student didn't crouch down on orders by the jumpmaster, and he snagged the pin on the door handle, pilot chute over the horizontal stabilizer and student under it, barely! Shocked Broke a bone in his foot landing a round reserve on the taxiway. Horizontal stabilizer was bent about 3 or 4 inches back at the wingtip. So the plane was grounded.

Not sure what happened to this yesterday - only the quote showed, not the question I typed underneath! Here goes again:

How did a pilot chute get caught on the stabilizer on a static line jump? All the S/L kit I've ever jumped or packed didn't include a pilot chute. The bridle was always attached to the plane and the d-bag and bridle would get pulled back in by the instructor.

tash


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
May 21, 2013, 5:46 PM
Post #9 of 19 (2902 views)
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Re: [skytash] Tandem pair hits horizontal stabilizer [In reply to] Can't Post

>All the S/L kit I've ever jumped or packed didn't include a pilot chute. The bridle was
>always attached to the plane and the d-bag and bridle would get pulled back in by the
>instructor.

You have described direct bag. The other S/L method is pilot chute assist, where the S/L pulls the pin, then a piece of velcro is used to pull out the (standard throwout) pilot chute that is packed inside the rig like a pullout.

(There is also IAD, where the JM holds onto the PC as the jumper leaves and then throws it after him. Almost the same effect, but that is not commonly referred to as "static line" since no static line is used.)


toolbox  (D 18778)

May 21, 2013, 7:47 PM
Post #10 of 19 (2838 views)
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Re: [billvon] Tandem pair hits horizontal stabilizer [In reply to] Can't Post

Many years ago I also did some JM with a static line assist using a spring loaded pilot chute rig.
I prefer using the direct bag method for static line myself.
People should always check the drouge or pilot chute along with all the other handles before getting into the door in any aircraft with any gear,tandem rig or sport rig.
Keep a friendly eye on your buddies gear as well.
I've done several thousand 182 and 206P tandem exits and they demand extra special care,and not just for tandems either.
I know I'm preaching to the choir Bill,but this is for all those young jumpers who might be reading this.


Skyderp

May 22, 2013, 8:43 AM
Post #11 of 19 (2624 views)
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Tandem pair hits horizontal stabilizer [In reply to] Can't Post

Attached are some pics of the plane. It is currently parked on the tarmac of Westhampton Airport, near Sheltair.

There are really no details known by anyone who doesn't work for the DZ, but there are a couple rumors flying around - so take all this with a grain of salt. They are rumors.

First pair was climbing out of the plane at around 8-9k and "some part of the parachute" (drogue, most likely) hit the tail, damaging it. First pair left as the plane went into a "violent spin" with the second pair inside.

Second pair managed to get out during the spin, and at some point soon after their exit the pilot recovered and made an emergency landing Westhampton Airport, greeted by fire trucks and the like.

That is all rumors from the local flying community, so again, reserve judgement until the NTSB report comes out (if there even will be one). Although the FAA has been poking around, so it looks likely.

Attached are some pics of the airplane.
Attachments: 516-Side01.jpg (163 KB)
  516-Front02.jpg (185 KB)
  516-Front01.jpg (146 KB)


Skydivesg  (D 10938)

May 22, 2013, 12:09 PM
Post #12 of 19 (2520 views)
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Re: [billvon] Tandem pair hits horizontal stabilizer [In reply to] Can't Post

billvon wrote:
The other S/L method is pilot chute assist, where the S/L pulls the pin, then a piece of velcro is used to pull out the (standard throwout) pilot chute that is packed inside the rig like a pullout.

Let us not forget the standard spring loaded pilot chute with the pilot chute assist attached to the base of the pilot chute. There are still a surprisingly large number of DZs using that method.

Be the canopy pilot you want that other guy to be.

.


wayneflorida  (D 30566)

May 23, 2013, 6:57 AM
Post #13 of 19 (2299 views)
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Re: [Skyderp] Tandem pair hits horizontal stabilizer [In reply to] Can't Post

Would like to talk to the pilot concerning how the spin recovery went, and landing the experimental configuration.


theonlyski  (D License)

May 23, 2013, 10:24 AM
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Re: [wayneflorida] Tandem pair hits horizontal stabilizer [In reply to] Can't Post

wayneflorida wrote:
Would like to talk to the pilot concerning how the spin recovery went, and landing the experimental configuration.

+1

That pilot deserves a night at the bar... on the house.


BillyVance  (D 18895)

May 26, 2013, 6:12 AM
Post #15 of 19 (1755 views)
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Re: [billvon] Tandem pair hits horizontal stabilizer [In reply to] Can't Post

billvon wrote:
>All the S/L kit I've ever jumped or packed didn't include a pilot chute. The bridle was
>always attached to the plane and the d-bag and bridle would get pulled back in by the
>instructor.

You have described direct bag. The other S/L method is pilot chute assist, where the S/L pulls the pin, then a piece of velcro is used to pull out the (standard throwout) pilot chute that is packed inside the rig like a pullout.

(There is also IAD, where the JM holds onto the PC as the jumper leaves and then throws it after him. Almost the same effect, but that is not commonly referred to as "static line" since no static line is used.)

It was pilot chute assist IIRC. The jumpmaster was holding the static-line in his hand. The pilot chute was a spring-loaded one. This was back in the mid-late 90's. I do remember we talked about bailing out to lighten the load on the plane, but didn't want the pilot to panic, because he was relatively new, so we rode it back down uneventfully.


1888  (D 320)

May 26, 2013, 9:58 AM
Post #16 of 19 (1656 views)
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Re: [BillyVance] Tandem pair hits horizontal stabilizer [In reply to] Can't Post

Back in the day, jumping the B10 containers with military surplus 28 footers & sleeves we would attach a 4 pin ripcord (minus the handle) to the static line and as the student left the pins would be pulled releasing the spring loaded pilot chute. Worked pretty good for the era but the pins would sometimes get bent from an unstable exit & we would have to straighten them out with a rock or hammer before using again. Solved that problem by sewing a metal loop above the top pin & running the ripcord through that. That worked better. We later changed to a double length of 6cord tied directly to the static line itself which would break & release the pilot chute. Bet there are a few guys out there who still remember.


Andy9o8  (D License)

May 26, 2013, 11:55 AM
Post #17 of 19 (1577 views)
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Re: [1888] Tandem pair hits horizontal stabilizer [In reply to] Can't Post

1888 wrote:
Back in the day, jumping the B10 containers with military surplus 28 footers & sleeves we would attach a 4 pin ripcord (minus the handle) to the static line and as the student left the pins would be pulled releasing the spring loaded pilot chute. Worked pretty good for the era but the pins would sometimes get bent from an unstable exit & we would have to straighten them out with a rock or hammer before using again. Solved that problem by sewing a metal loop above the top pin & running the ripcord through that. That worked better. We later changed to a double length of 6cord tied directly to the static line itself which would break & release the pilot chute. Bet there are a few guys out there who still remember.

When we would S-L/PCA 4-pin B-10's back in the day, we would run the S/L into the container where it attached to the p/c bridal with a patch of velcro. Then we'd close the container one cone/grommet at a time, running the S/L along-side the spine as we went along, closing each grommet with a small length of break cord laced thru the pin-hole in the cone and around the S/L along-side it. Do that 4 times, and the container was closed & ready to jump. The bottom grommet was closed last, and the S/L trailed from there. When jumped, the tension of the S/L would pop-pop-pop-pop each break cord from the bottom up, opening the container; then the p/c's spring + the PCA would do the rest.


grue  (D License)

May 27, 2013, 3:05 AM
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Re: [Skydivesg] Tandem pair hits horizontal stabilizer [In reply to] Can't Post

Skydivesg wrote:
Let us not forget the standard spring loaded pilot chute with the pilot chute assist attached to the base of the pilot chute. There are still a surprisingly large number of DZs using that method.

.

My original DZ is still doing it afaik. I did spring-loaded PC s/l training there back in 2004. Static line snapped into a fixture installed on the plane just inside the door, where the pilot could reach with a good knife if need be.

That wasn't THAT long ago was it?





was it?




guys?


(This post was edited by grue on May 27, 2013, 3:09 AM)


chuckbrown  (D 19538)

May 27, 2013, 4:21 PM
Post #19 of 19 (1091 views)
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Re: [irishrigger] Tandem pair hits horizontal stabilizer [In reply to] Can't Post

irishrigger wrote:
i have my hand ON the drogue when i get my body out of the 182, to prevent accidental deployment.

What he said.



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