Forums: Skydiving: Incidents:
Fatality - North Carolina - April 6 2013

 


chuckakers  (D 10855)

Apr 6, 2013, 6:22 PM
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Fatality - North Carolina - April 6 2013 Can't Post

http://www.witn.com/...ident-201776761.html


(This post was edited by PhreeZone on Jan 22, 2014, 11:09 AM)


SEREJumper  (D 29555)

Apr 6, 2013, 8:30 PM
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Re: [chuckakers] Fatal, NC [In reply to] Can't Post

This was a comment on the site:

Quote:
From what I understand there was no equipment failure involved and this was just
another normal weekend skydive for him. My sources tell me that he was performing a highly technical and extremely demanding landing maneuver that he initiated only a few hundred feet off the ground. Apparently something went horribly wrong and we may never know exactly what caused this tragedy.


Scrumpot  (D License)

Apr 8, 2013, 8:49 AM
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Re: [chuckakers] Fatal, NC [In reply to] Can't Post

Anyone have any of the particulars?
You know - "the usual"... Canopy type & size, W/L, maneuver being performed, experience, etc...
I've found several under-canopy pictures of the deceased (on FB & elsewhere), and at least from what I can see/tell from those - it does not appear as though Frank was either flying, or regularly practiced anything - that any of us would consider radical.

Very sad loss indeed.
My most heartfealt condolences go out to all those affected, and especially now to the TSS family, who no doubt are simply reeling.

BSBD Frown


(This post was edited by Scrumpot on Apr 8, 2013, 8:52 AM)


chuckakers  (D 10855)

Apr 8, 2013, 6:10 PM
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Re: [Scrumpot] Fatal, NC [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Anyone have any of the particulars?
You know - "the usual"... Canopy type & size, W/L, maneuver being performed, experience, etc...
I've found several under-canopy pictures of the deceased (on FB & elsewhere), and at least from what I can see/tell from those - it does not appear as though Frank was either flying, or regularly practiced anything - that any of us would consider radical.

Very sad loss indeed.
My most heartfealt condolences go out to all those affected, and especially now to the TSS family, who no doubt are simply reeling.

BSBD Frown

Hello? Anyone?


iambeav2  (D 29842)

Apr 10, 2013, 8:41 AM
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Re: [Scrumpot] Fatal, NC [In reply to] Can't Post

Stiletto 150, Weighed 180/190 with gear. I was friends with Frank. Great man. Was not there the day it happened. Ground sources say it was a lost toggle...this is STILL being discussed with the witnesses, so anything right/wrong is unknown right now.


grasshoppergirl  (A 255824)

Apr 15, 2013, 9:02 AM
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Re: [iambeav2] Fatal, NC [In reply to] Can't Post

Really sad news, I'm so sorry for you all at TSS. I met Frank at the dz one day and was struck by his genuine kindness and interest in talking to a newbie. Very sad.


JohnMitchell  (D 6462)

Apr 28, 2013, 10:18 PM
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Re: [iambeav2] Fatal, NC [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Ground sources say it was a lost toggle...t
I've heard of that before. I weigh about the same and jump the same canopy. I do a 90 degree front riser from base to final but I have both hands in the toggles at all times. Do others do differently with the medium performance canopies?


davelepka  (D 21448)

Apr 29, 2013, 3:41 AM
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Re: [JohnMitchell] Fatal, NC [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I do a 90 degree front riser from base to final but I have both hands in the toggles at all times. Do others do differently with the medium performance canopies?

I don't think anyone is dropping both toggles, making a riser turn, then grabbing the toggles again. One issue that has come up in the past is a toggle slipping off of one hand during the grab/release of the front riser.

Some people, it seems, are in the habit od looping the toggle over their hand, and then using their whole hand to grip/release the riser. They are counting on the tension of the brake line to keep the toggle over their hand, as when they are using all of their fingers to grip/release the riser, there is nothing left to hold the 'toggle'.

The solution revoles around how you hold the toggle and how you grab the riser. My preference is to loop the toggle over my hand (not past the thumb), and then grip the toggle with my pinky and ring finger. This holds the toggle to my hand, and leaves my thumb, first and middle finger to use as a grabber on the risers. I can grip and release the risers (front and rear) while 'holding' the toggles with my other fingers the whole time.

I don't know if it was related to this incident, but certainly something to think about doing anything but 'holding' the toggles with your hands when at a low altitude.


DougH  (D License)

Apr 29, 2013, 3:42 AM
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Re: [JohnMitchell] Fatal, NC [In reply to] Can't Post

No, or at least they shouldn't. But if you grab the dive loop with all of you fingers you can drop the toggle. I only grab the loops with my index and pointer and the other two fingers stay closed on the toggles only.


chuckakers  (D 10855)

Apr 29, 2013, 6:29 AM
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Re: [JohnMitchell] Fatal, NC [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Ground sources say it was a lost toggle...t
I've heard of that before. I weigh about the same and jump the same canopy. I do a 90 degree front riser from base to final but I have both hands in the toggles at all times. Do others do differently with the medium performance canopies?

Dropped toggles aren't all that uncommon. My kid took a chopper ride after dropping one a few years ago. It's easier than you might think to drop one when you release the front riser.


JohnMitchell  (D 6462)

Apr 29, 2013, 7:31 AM
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Re: [DougH] Fatal, NC [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
No, or at least they shouldn't. But if you grab the dive loop with all of you fingers you can drop the toggle. I only grab the loops with my index and pointer and the other two fingers stay closed on the toggles only.
That's how I do it too.

The pro swoopers I know use the whole hand in the toggle too.

That would suck to lose a toggle at that moment. Unsure


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Apr 29, 2013, 9:40 AM
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Re: [chuckakers] Fatal, NC [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

Dropped toggles aren't all that uncommon. My kid took a chopper ride after dropping one a few years ago. It's easier than you might think to drop one when you release the front riser.

http://www.dropzone.com/...post=4248014#4248014 Ian Drennan explained his experience with this. I took a chopper ride after having dropped a toggle as well.
It may or may not have happened here, but it does happen.


hparrish  (D 25090)

May 1, 2013, 8:27 AM
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Re: [DougH] Fatal, NC [In reply to] Can't Post

I do this too.


CReW  (D License)

May 1, 2013, 3:08 PM
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Re: Fatal, NC [In reply to] Can't Post

<<I only grab the loops with my index and pointer and the other two fingers stay closed on the toggles only>>

So the toggles live in a room of their own and the door to that room never opens?


mrblueskies1966  (D 32500)

May 26, 2013, 6:27 AM
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Re: [Scrumpot] Fatal, NC [In reply to] Can't Post

There were no equipment issues on this jump. Clean exit and deployment on a 3.5K Hop and Pop. Witnesses on the ground observed Frank flying a conservative left hand pattern. After he turned final it appeared that he went to his dive loops to build up a little speed and dropped his right toggle when he came out of the dive loops. Three witnesses observed Frank reaching up with his right hand as the canopy made the abrupt turn to the left and prior to impact. After discussing the details with the FAA and Jim Crouch, a dropped toggle is the only conclusion we can come too. Frank was a great friend, conservative jumper, and very safety oriented. We are all still heartbroken around here but jumping along. Sorry it took so long to post up here but been a lot going on. Blue Skies Frank.



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