Forums: Skydiving: Gear and Rigging:
Diapered Main?

 


3mpire  (C 39657)

Mar 29, 2013, 12:32 PM
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Diapered Main? Can't Post

In this thread:

http://www.dropzone.com/...;;page=unread#unread

There was a discussion about diapered mains, which is not something I am familiar with.

I'm really interested by the discussion about deployment and how the shape of the container, what/how the parachute is "in" something, and the pilot chute affect openings.

I'd like to understand this better, particularly the "diaper" approach. I'm assuming it's an alternative to a deployment bag?

Rather than having a learning opportunity mixed up/lost in a flame bait thread, I thought I'd start a nice new friendly and objective thread and kindly ask if anyone with more history and knowledge than me can educate me on this.

If someone even wanted to geek out and just give me an explanation about the evolution of deployment systems that'd be rad, too.

Angelic


(This post was edited by 3mpire on Mar 29, 2013, 12:36 PM)


airtwardo  (D License)

Mar 29, 2013, 12:45 PM
Post #2 of 18 (3582 views)
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Re: [3mpire] Diapered Main? [In reply to] Can't Post

It's basically a flap of material that wraps around the bottom end of a 'mummy-ed' canopy with one or more grommets on one side and line stow bands that feed through those grommets on the other.

You would encase the bottom of the canopy in the diaper and stow the lines on it, the grommet /stow-bands keeping it closed until line stretch.

It was a very quick and easy way to pac, the openings were consistently firm but not a slammer, I never had line twists using a 'raeper', 'diaper', 'frap-strap' as they were called.

Actually a frap-strap only had one grommet to keep it closed and the lines were simply coiled up in the packtray...with that set-up I used to pack in about 2 minutes. The negative side was it seemed to wear the canopy a bit faster.


3mpire  (C 39657)

Mar 29, 2013, 12:50 PM
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Re: [airtwardo] Diapered Main? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
It's basically a flap of material that wraps around the bottom end of a 'mummy-ed' canopy with one or more grommets on one side and line stow bands that feed through those grommets on the other.

Is the flap part of the canopy? I'm trying to envision how it is different than a deployment bag or a free bag?

For example I found this via google search:

http://www.fs.fed.us/...m08572835/page03.htm

Is the white material in this image the diaper? What happens to it after it is pulled out of the bag during deployment?




(This post was edited by 3mpire on Mar 29, 2013, 12:54 PM)
Attachments: fig26.jpg (6.06 KB)


wmw999  (D 6296)

Mar 29, 2013, 12:50 PM
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Re: [airtwardo] Diapered Main? [In reply to] Can't Post

I had a diaper for a long time; it was as wide as my container, and controlled the bottom of the canopy, the slider, and the lines (all were stowed on my diaper -- I made it, I decided). Worked quite well. The compression was tight enough to be definite, loose enough to be no problem whatsoever to set the rubber bands.

One thing to consider is that diapered mains might not pack quite as easily into the container with slipper-as-snot Z-po fabric. I don't know -- haven't tried it.

Wendy P.


stratostar  (Student)

Mar 29, 2013, 12:52 PM
Post #5 of 18 (3557 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] Diapered Main? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Actually a frap-strap only had one grommet to keep it closed and the lines were simply coiled up in the packtray...with that set-up I used to pack in about 2 minutes. The negative side was it seemed to wear the canopy a bit faster.

Well pretty sure those who went in with lines half hitched to a closing flap were thinking how that was a negative to that method..... Tongue


airtwardo  (D License)

Mar 29, 2013, 12:54 PM
Post #6 of 18 (3544 views)
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Re: [3mpire] Diapered Main? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
It's basically a flap of material that wraps around the bottom end of a 'mummy-ed' canopy with one or more grommets on one side and line stow bands that feed through those grommets on the other.

Is the flap part of the canopy? I'm trying to envision how it is different than a deployment bag or a free bag?

For example I found this via google search:

http://www.fs.fed.us/...m08572835/page03.htm

Is the white material in this image the diaper? What happens to it after it is pulled out of the bag during deployment?

Yes that's the diaper....there IS no bag...once the diaper is 'set' you S fold the canopy into the pack-tray


(This post was edited by airtwardo on Mar 29, 2013, 12:56 PM)
Attachments: diaper.pdf (266 KB)


airtwardo  (D License)

Mar 29, 2013, 12:58 PM
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Re: [stratostar] Diapered Main? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
Actually a frap-strap only had one grommet to keep it closed and the lines were simply coiled up in the packtray...with that set-up I used to pack in about 2 minutes. The negative side was it seemed to wear the canopy a bit faster.

Well pretty sure those who went in with lines half hitched to a closing flap were thinking how that was a negative to that method..... Tongue


42" pilot-chute and pullin' stable prevented any 1/2 hitches! Wink



~ I use to free-pack a Unit-3 (L O N G lines) into a 1st gen wonderdog with a pull-out!
Ya really didn't wanna hang onto the pilotchute for more than say ~
.00000000000001 sec! Wink


(This post was edited by airtwardo on Mar 29, 2013, 1:05 PM)


Skydivesg  (D 10938)

Mar 29, 2013, 2:03 PM
Post #8 of 18 (3493 views)
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Re: [3mpire] Diapered Main? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
What happens to it after it is pulled out of the bag during deployment?

The diaper was attached to the canopy with one seam sewn down the middle of the diaper usually on the top of the tail in the normal center stitch line. That way it was in position to just be wrapped around the cocooned canopy and closed with the two rubber bands and 2 line bites.


GLIDEANGLE  (D 30292)

Mar 29, 2013, 2:40 PM
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Re: [3mpire] Diapered Main? [In reply to] Can't Post

For ram air mains being used ONLY for clear & pull (hop & pop) jumps there is the "tail pocket". Basically it is just a set of rubber bands at the middle of the canopy's tail. Lines are stored on it.... And NOTHING controls (wraps or contains) the canopy itself. Sometimes this is used for CReW. The purpose is to get really fast sub-terminal openings.


3mpire  (C 39657)

Mar 29, 2013, 3:26 PM
Post #10 of 18 (3455 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] Diapered Main? [In reply to] Can't Post

That PDF is a great explanation. I laughed right off the bat:

Quote:
When you hear the word diaper, you probably think of something wrapped around a babys bottom. Similarly, a parachute diaper is wrapped around the bottom, or skirt, of your parachute where the lines are attached and keeps all the crap contained during certain critical stages of the parachutes deployment.

Reading through that it easy to see the evolution that led to the deployment bag.

What is it about the deployment bag that makes it "better" than a full stow diaper? Is it that the diaper is harder to pack? Performs worse at terminal openings?


3mpire  (C 39657)

Mar 29, 2013, 3:26 PM
Post #11 of 18 (3453 views)
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Re: [GLIDEANGLE] Diapered Main? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
The purpose is to get really fast sub-terminal openings.

Is this how BASE rigs are packed?


airtwardo  (D License)

Mar 29, 2013, 3:59 PM
Post #12 of 18 (3433 views)
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Re: [3mpire] Diapered Main? [In reply to] Can't Post

Reading through that it easy to see the evolution that led to the deployment bag.
~~~IIRC the deployment bag came first.

What is it about the deployment bag that makes it "better" than a full stow diaper?
~~~They cost more $ Wink


Is it that the diaper is harder to pack?
~~~nope....they're EASIER to pack, no bag stuffing headache!


Performs worse at terminal openings?
~~~~~I have over 1000 jumps on diapered mains, most at terminal...no problems.


Word is you get a more staged & controlled opening with a bagged canopy...maybe. I've never jumped a zpo with a diaper, THAT might be a bit more 'sporty' at terminal so to speak than a big ole 7cell F1-11 'square' main.


3mpire  (C 39657)

Mar 29, 2013, 4:03 PM
Post #13 of 18 (3430 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] Diapered Main? [In reply to] Can't Post

What kind of pack job would you do for a square in a diaper? I'm assuming you don't s-fold it?


airtwardo  (D License)

Mar 29, 2013, 4:09 PM
Post #14 of 18 (3423 views)
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Re: [3mpire] Diapered Main? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
What kind of pack job would you do for a square in a diaper? I'm assuming you don't s-fold it?

You would flat-pack it, wrap & set the diaper around the bottom end stowing the lines, then S fold the mummy/cocoon shaped canopy right into the pack-tray.


If ya think it sounds Rube Goldberg...remember THAT'S basically how all the reserves were packed 'back in the day' Sly


(This post was edited by airtwardo on Mar 29, 2013, 4:13 PM)


3mpire  (C 39657)

Mar 29, 2013, 4:13 PM
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Re: [airtwardo] Diapered Main? [In reply to] Can't Post

Makes sense -- thanks for sharing some knowledge, I appreciate it!


airtwardo  (D License)

Mar 29, 2013, 4:14 PM
Post #16 of 18 (3418 views)
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Re: [3mpire] Diapered Main? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Makes sense -- thanks for sharing some knowledge, I appreciate it!


That's what we're here for...tip your waitress! Wink


GLIDEANGLE  (D 30292)

Mar 29, 2013, 7:16 PM
Post #17 of 18 (3372 views)
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Re: [3mpire] Diapered Main? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

If someone even wanted to geek out and just give me an explanation about the evolution of deployment systems that'd be rad, too.

Chapter 2 of the document linked below might help you with the various deployment systems.

http://www.faa.gov/...ia/FAA-H-8083-17.pdf


jackwallace  (Student)

Mar 30, 2013, 3:59 PM
Post #18 of 18 (3280 views)
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Re: [GLIDEANGLE] Diapered Main? [In reply to] Can't Post

Actually the bag came before the diaper on mains. In the 70's there were a crap load of packing methods for square mains. Straps, bags, diapers, short sleeves, ropes and rings, slider stowed in rubber bands up at the canopy, and the very scary: nose deployed no pilot chute,



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