Forums: Skydiving: Incidents:
Fatality - Missing Skydiver - Washington - 3 Jan 2013

 

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skytribe  (D 9403)

Jan 3, 2013, 6:31 PM
Post #1 of 82 (7033 views)
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     Fatality - Missing Skydiver - Washington - 3 Jan 2013  

 
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Search-on-for-skydiver-missing-near-Mount-Si-185602532.html


(This post was edited by PhreeZone on Jan 22, 2014, 11:11 AM)


efs4ever  (D 7014)

Jan 3, 2013, 7:13 PM
Post #2 of 82 (6957 views)
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     Re: [skytribe] Missing Skydiver in NorthWest [In reply to]  

Clicky


SEREJumper  (D 29555)

Jan 3, 2013, 7:36 PM
Post #3 of 82 (6916 views)
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     Re: [skytribe] Missing Skydiver in NorthWest [In reply to]  

Sounds like a base jump.


monkycndo  (D License)

Jan 3, 2013, 7:48 PM
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     Re: [SEREJumper] Missing Skydiver in NorthWest [In reply to]  

Base from a helicopter?


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
Moderator
Jan 3, 2013, 8:17 PM
Post #5 of 82 (6844 views)
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     Re: [monkycndo] Missing Skydiver in NorthWest [In reply to]  

Lots of BASE jumpers have been known to take their single canopy rigs on jumps out of aircraft (usually by pilots that don't know any better) when they plan on opening very low. A few of them have even made this forum including : http://www.dropzone.com/...orum.cgi?post=694325 and http://www.dropzone.com/...post=3307712#3307712


stratostar  (Student)

Jan 3, 2013, 9:11 PM
Post #6 of 82 (6762 views)
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     Re: [SEREJumper] Missing Skydiver in NorthWest [In reply to]  

Quote:
The pilot said three men were alternating going up in the helicopter to jump, with one jumping while the others waited at the landing zone. The pilot said the men were jumping from about 6,500 feet. West says the line of sight was blocked for the men at the landing zone so they did not see their companion jump.

Reading this and seeing the large hills, with peaks and valleys on it in the back ground... maybe a little proximity flying and they did look in the right spot? yet.


Amazon  (D License)

Jan 3, 2013, 11:22 PM
Post #7 of 82 (6670 views)
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     Re: [stratostar] Missing Skydiver in NorthWest [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Quote:
The pilot said three men were alternating going up in the helicopter to jump, with one jumping while the others waited at the landing zone. The pilot said the men were jumping from about 6,500 feet. West says the line of sight was blocked for the men at the landing zone so they did not see their companion jump.

Reading this and seeing the large hills, with peaks and valleys on it in the back ground... maybe a little proximity flying and they did look in the right spot? yet.

Just watched the report on the 11 PM news. The missing guy jumped at 6500' was supposed to open at 2500'. He was doing a wingsuit jump. Only other information is he a jumper from Florida and is 29 years old.

BAD night to be out there a weather system has come in off the ocean and its snowing and sleeting out there tonight.Unsure


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
Moderator
Jan 4, 2013, 6:11 AM
Post #8 of 82 (6390 views)
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     Re: [Amazon] Missing Skydiver in NorthWest [In reply to]  

Search was called off for the night. It sounds like they were using a Hughes 269 for the chopper so it would only hold one passenger and were intending on doing proximity flights of the mountain in wingsuits. In this case the jumper might have been wearing his BASEr container or a BASE container, that is still unclear.

I hope the search finds the jumper today.


FB1609  (C 1409)

Jan 4, 2013, 7:45 AM
Post #9 of 82 (6251 views)
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     Re: [PhreeZone] Missing Skydiver in NorthWest [In reply to]  

Wonder if he had his phone, or service. Not looking too good if he is injured, however if he's ok, he should be found ok I hope.


Premier WickedWingsuits  (D 30916)

Jan 4, 2013, 7:59 AM
Post #10 of 82 (6226 views)
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     Re: [FB1609] Missing Skydiver in NorthWest [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Wonder if he had his phone, or service. Not looking too good if he is injured, however if he's ok, he should be found ok I hope.

It's never a good idea to rely on a phone in the "mountains". I have had good luck with a SPOT but there are even better options available. The nice thing about SPOT is you can send an OK and also a "I fell down and need help but nothing critical" in addition to a "Send SAR". It also has a tracking mode so if you are incapacitated your position can be located.

A friends body was successfully found using the tracking feature on a spot. It wasn't an ideal outcome but it potentially saved SAR lives and put the family out of their misery. He was running some 14ers...not jump related.

Still, a phone is better than nothing. I think I have seen apps that have a similar tracking feature to the spot so again you don't have to be conscious. Batteries on a cell phone don't last long in the cold and they are not optimized for GPS emergency signals.

It's possible this guy had both...it is good to talk about being prepared for a "backcountry" skydive experience.

I hope he is ok. A guy spent days trapped on a glacier in the valley this summer...the human spirit has the ability to survive if you keep a positive outlook. Remember that if it is all you have left!

Edited for auto correct!


(This post was edited by WickedWingsuits on Jan 4, 2013, 8:04 AM)


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
Moderator
Jan 4, 2013, 9:13 AM
Post #11 of 82 (6097 views)
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     Re: [WickedWingsuits] Missing Skydiver in NorthWest [In reply to]  

I had some info sent from a party that wanted to remain anonymous that the police have said that the jumper had a cell phone but the phone dropped off the cell network around the time of the jump, they re not sure if this is due to poor coverage or if there is an issue with the phone. The jumper was in a Wingsuit with a BASE rig and was freshly from Sebastian in FL after doing some skydives there over the holidays.

It sounds like the plan was to exit on the east side of the mountain and fly around to the west side and open then land on the west side. This jumper went first and when the helicopter went back to pick up the second jumper the first had not appeared at the landing area. It sounds like locals have been doing some Proximity flights of this mountain but this umpers experience at this site was not known.


skytribe  (D 9403)

Jan 4, 2013, 10:59 AM
Post #12 of 82 (5942 views)
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     Re: [PhreeZone] Missing Skydiver in NorthWest [In reply to]  

Sounds like the pilot may have a few questions to answer for if the jumper was wearing a base rig.


Andy_Copland  (A 105852)

Jan 4, 2013, 12:42 PM
Post #13 of 82 (5769 views)
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     Re: [skytribe] Missing Skydiver in NorthWest [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Sounds like the pilot may have a few questions to answer for if the jumper was wearing a base rig.

Unless its TSO'd


tristansdad  (C 39285)

Jan 4, 2013, 12:58 PM
Post #14 of 82 (5735 views)
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     Re: [skytribe] Missing Skydiver in NorthWest [In reply to]  

I personally know the guy and jumped with him on a couple of occasions. When ever he jumped his base rig while wing suiting he alway wore a belly mounted reserve.


skytribe  (D 9403)

Jan 4, 2013, 1:20 PM
Post #15 of 82 (5685 views)
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     Re: [tristansdad] Missing Skydiver in NorthWest [In reply to]  

If he's wearing a belly mount reserve when they find him then that may be fine, if he's not then that will open up the pilot to FAA investigation as to what was going on.

As to the TSO issue - I think the issue is more to do with making an intentional jump out of an aircraft requiring 2 parachutes. Most base rigs are single canopies so this would be in violation unless wearing an additional canopy.

Either way any incident like this brings the pilot's actions under the spotlight of the FAA and hence I hope all his ducks are in order when the FAA come investigating.


Bill_K  (D 30260)

Jan 4, 2013, 1:32 PM
Post #16 of 82 (5642 views)
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     Re: [tristansdad] Missing Skydiver in NorthWest [In reply to]  

In reply to:
I personally know the guy and jumped with him on a couple of occasions. When ever he jumped his base rig while wing suiting he alway wore a belly mounted reserve.

How does a belly mount reserve attach and work with a WS, seems like it would really mess up the actual 'flying' of the WS it's self...


JerryBaumchen  (D 1543)

Jan 4, 2013, 1:40 PM
Post #17 of 82 (5623 views)
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     Re: [skytribe] Missing Skydiver in NorthWest [In reply to]  

Hi tribe,

Quote:
As to the TSO issue - I think the issue is more to do with making an intentional jump out of an aircraft requiring 2 parachutes.

The harness would need to be certificated under a TSO-authorization to be legal.

JerryBaumchen


skytribe  (D 9403)

Jan 4, 2013, 1:56 PM
Post #18 of 82 (5588 views)
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     Re: [JerryBaumchen] Missing Skydiver in NorthWest [In reply to]  

Jerry

Agreed - you can have a harness that is TSO'd but that doesn't necessarily make it legal to jump out of an aircraft intentionally. There are other rules that need to e met as well.

ie. Emergency pilot parachutes are TSO'd but as they only contain a single canopy it would not be legal to intentionally make a skydive with one. (Unless it was an aircraft emergency OR you had a 2nd canopy such as a tertiary reserve).


TMPattersonJr  (D 30299)

Jan 4, 2013, 2:37 PM
Post #19 of 82 (5513 views)
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     Re: [skytribe] Missing Skydiver in NorthWest [In reply to]  

All,

I know that he owns a Baser which is a TSO'd system when used with the chest mount reserve. I have seen him use it out of an airplane several times and has never had an issue with the chest mount distorting the wingsuit in any way. The lower hookups go through the wingsuit in the same manner as the legstraps and hook into rings on the horizontal similar to a lower connection on a tandem rig. The upper connections are just under the 3 ring connection on the main lift web outside the wingsuit and easy to connect.

Still praying for my friend. Frown




Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Jan 4, 2013, 2:52 PM
Post #21 of 82 (5479 views)
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     Re: [JerryBaumchen] Missing Skydiver in NorthWest [In reply to]  

Bhe BASEr system is TSO'd, and the reserve system works perfectly fine with a wingsuit. It may impact airflow, but that's about it.


Premier WickedWingsuits  (D 30916)

Jan 4, 2013, 3:10 PM
Post #22 of 82 (5461 views)
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     Re: [KidWicked] Missing Skydiver in NorthWest [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In reply to:
Either way any incident like this brings the pilot's actions under the spotlight of the FAA and hence I hope all his ducks are in order when the FAA come investigating.

Do you have any evidence of a pilot being convicted or otherwise suffering any kind of punishment for dropping a jumper who is not wearing a reserver?

I have a vision of this whole thread being rehashed.

http://www.dropzone.com/..._reply;so=ASC;mh=25;

I don't know what ever happened to the pilot. Would be interesting to know.


skytribe  (D 9403)

Jan 4, 2013, 4:01 PM
Post #23 of 82 (5358 views)
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     Re: [WickedWingsuits] Missing Skydiver in NorthWest [In reply to]  

The FAA investigate a lot of skydiving fatalities to ensure that the rules were followed.

I do know of pilots who were investigated by FAA for relatively normal skydiving fatalities to ensure that all the rules were followed - ie. reserve was in date , all aircraft and pilot paperwork were in order and rules were followed etc.

Do you think the FAA have rules and then simply chose to disregard them. The rules are very clear about having two parachutes to make and intentional skydive. (Tandem was an anomaly that I believe has on a exemption but I believe has been resolved)

The base rig people have mentioned seems to fit the bill in terms of being TSO'd and having two canopies. So if he was using this and everything is in date then all should be well.

That said, when incidents happen the FAA also start to look at other activities which may be related ie. did the other jumpers he was dropping have suitable equipment, was the aircraft suitably configured for jumping.

All I have said, is that I hope his paperwork is all in order as I'm sure the they will be looking.


Premier WickedWingsuits  (D 30916)

Jan 4, 2013, 4:43 PM
Post #24 of 82 (5279 views)
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     Re: [skytribe] Missing Skydiver in NorthWest [In reply to]  

 
I would be interested to know what real life penalties a pilot faces. Not someones theory of what the penalty is but an actual example or two of the punishment.

Does anyone know what happened to the pilot in that previous thread?

If it can be shown that the "passenger" knew and accepted the risks I think it would be harsh to give the pilot more than a slap on the wrist and a warning.

I don't know if it is possible to get a waiver from the FAA in the US. Gary clearly got something in the UK for practice jumps with a single parachute system...and even for a non existent parachute system. Would that jump have even been possible in the US?


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
Moderator
Jan 4, 2013, 5:33 PM
Post #25 of 82 (5209 views)
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     Re: [WickedWingsuits] Missing Skydiver in NorthWest [In reply to]  

Please take the posts about the legalities of jumping a non-TSO single parachute container over to General Skydiving or Safety.


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