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normiss  (D 28356)

Dec 19, 2012, 1:02 PM
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Post deleted by normiss

 


CSpenceFLY  (D 25252)

Dec 19, 2012, 1:22 PM
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Re: [normiss] Pencil packing??? [In reply to] Can't Post

I would think the FAA would pull the ticket. I don't think anyone would make a criminal case unless someone was injured or killed. I'd beat their ass. If I'm getting a pencil pack I'm only paying half price.


DougH  (D License)

Dec 19, 2012, 1:55 PM
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Re: [CSpenceFLY] Pencil packing??? [In reply to] Can't Post

Pencil packing a paying customers rig?

That sounds like theft to me, and reckless behavior to boot.


jrouse  (B 38781)

Dec 19, 2012, 2:35 PM
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Re: [normiss] Pencil packing??? [In reply to] Can't Post

Sorry fella's I'm a NOOB! But whats "Pencil Packing"?


JohnMitchell  (D 6462)

Dec 19, 2012, 2:50 PM
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Re: [jrouse] Pencil packing??? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Sorry fella's I'm a NOOB! But whats "Pencil Packing"?
Every 180 days your reserve must be repacked by an FAA certified rigger. This takes an hour-ish and runs $50-$100, depending on the rigger.

Pencil pack is when they just sign off the packing data card as repacked without really doing it. The packing data card is carried in a small pocket on every rig. Your instructor can show you if you ask.

A little history, when I started in the 70's the repack cycle was 60 days. Almost every rigger I knew would give a pencil pack at 60 days if you asked for it. I had no qualms about having mine "packed" that way. Smile

When they changed the regs to 120 days, the USPA had a ceremony with the FAA and presented the FAA with a giant pencil, saying "We won't need this anymore." LaughLaugh Pretty damn funny, really.

The 180 days we have now is okay, but I'd be fine with one year. Smile


jrouse  (B 38781)

Dec 19, 2012, 2:54 PM
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Re: [JohnMitchell] Pencil packing??? [In reply to] Can't Post

OK, understood! Now I know, thanks!!


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Dec 19, 2012, 3:50 PM
Post #7 of 46 (3678 views)
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Re: [normiss] Pencil packing??? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
So I'm hearing a well know left coaster was recently caught pencil packing a BUNCH of military rigs and was summarily fired, as he should be.

Isn't this a criminal act?
Would the FAA yank your ticket if caught?

This is booolshit IMO.
I'd never use that rigger again. Err, packer, sorry. Tongue

It's one thing to pencil pack yourself (IMO) but a rigger??????? Mad

Are military rigs subject to the same regs as civilian rigs? Are military riggers subject to the same rules as civilian riggers?


normiss  (D 28356)

Dec 19, 2012, 4:40 PM
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Re: [DSE] Pencil packing??? [In reply to] Can't Post

Great question.
If that's what happened here, maybe so, as this person was fired so far as I understand.
Personally though, no clue.
I let go of military concerns a lifetime ago.
Cool

I also agree with John....once a yea IS fine by me.
I do adhere to current regulations though.
Smile


JerryBaumchen  (D 1543)

Dec 19, 2012, 7:45 PM
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Re: [DSE] Pencil packing??? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Dougles,

I can only tell what I have learned over the years. It might be right ( I think it is ) or it might be wrong.

In a nutshell: Both the military (DoDefense ) and the FAA ( DoTransportation ) are in the Executive Branch of the gov't ( but you probably know that ). One is not over the other.

When it comes time to launch a whole bunch of F-15s because nasty things are happening, you for sure to not want some GS-2 ATC guy telling them they have to wait for the Piper to get out of way.

For both questions: No IMO

However, it is my understanding that both the Army Team & the Navy Chuting Stars do adhere as much as they can for good relations and no bad headlines.

Again, just my opinion; others may have different thoughts,

JerryBaumchen


JerryBaumchen  (D 1543)

Dec 19, 2012, 7:49 PM
Post #10 of 46 (3533 views)
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Re: [JohnMitchell] Pencil packing??? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi John,

Quote:
I had no qualms about having mine "packed" that way.

A couple of good friends would pencil pack their rigs ( after I had packed them ) using my name. I told them I did not care but do not use my name.

So then there was this Middle Eastern rigger who packed a whole bunch of them over a long period of time. His name was U BIN HAHD

Tongue

JerryBaumchen


stratostar  (Student)

Dec 19, 2012, 9:16 PM
Post #11 of 46 (3467 views)
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Re: [normiss] Pencil packing??? [In reply to] Can't Post

I hate when my rigger pencil packs my rig.... and charges me full price.


JohnMitchell  (D 6462)

Dec 19, 2012, 10:28 PM
Post #12 of 46 (3429 views)
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Re: [stratostar] Pencil packing??? [In reply to] Can't Post

I should clarify for all, those pencil packs at 60 days were free. Smile


BigMark  (D 17505)

Dec 19, 2012, 10:29 PM
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Re: [stratostar] Pencil packing??? [In reply to] Can't Post

When the packing is bad for the reserve more than it is good for deployment something needs to change.


masterrigger1  (D 14167)

Dec 20, 2012, 5:04 AM
Post #14 of 46 (3340 views)
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Re: [DSE] Pencil packing??? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Are military rigs subject to the same regs as civilian rigs?
Quote:

DSE,
If the Military is jumping out of a Part 91 operated (civilian) airplane: then the answer is "yes".
See Below:

65.111 Certificate required.
(a) No person may pack, maintain, or alter any personnel-carrying parachute intended for emergency use in connection with civil aircraft of the United States (including the reserve parachute of a dual parachute system to be used for intentional parachute jumping) unless that person holds an appropriate current certificate and type rating issued under this subpart and complies with 65.127 through 65.133.

This is the main reason for the Military comp certificate which is a fairly simple and painless transition to a FAA certificate.

There are a lot of contractors hauling Military jumpers in Part 91 aircraft out there these days.

As far as the Military rigs, see below:

Approved parachute means a parachute manufactured under a type certificate or a Technical Standard Order (C-23 series), or a personnel-carrying U.S. military parachute (other than a high altitude, high speed, or ejection type) identified by a Navy Air Facility, an Army Air Field, and Air Force-Navy drawing number, an Army Air Field order number, or any other military designation or specification number.
Are military riggers subject to the same rules as civilian riggers?
Quote:

That I do not know. But, the individual could hold both a military and civilian rating at the same time.
And again, the question is what aircraft is he or she jumping from.

BS,
MEL


CSpenceFLY  (D 25252)

Dec 20, 2012, 7:19 AM
Post #15 of 46 (3280 views)
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Re: [BigMark] Pencil packing??? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
When the packing is bad for the reserve more than it is good for deployment something needs to change.

I recently pulled out my reserve that had been packed for about 5 yrs. There was no determinable difference between it and one that had been packed 6 months ago. After seeing that I would have no problem jumping my rig with a 5 yr old reserve pack.

The same can not be said for the 3 yr old main pack job. It was a brick.


JerryBaumchen  (D 1543)

Dec 20, 2012, 1:54 PM
Post #16 of 46 (3162 views)
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Re: [CSpenceFLY] Pencil packing??? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Spence,

Quote:
my reserve that had been packed for about 5 yrs

One very well know jumper ( no names will be mentioned ) told me, a number of years ago, that he had to use his reserve that had been packed for 5 yrs. It worked just as designed.

5 year repack cycle anyone? Tongue

JerryBaumchen


pottesur  (C License)

Dec 20, 2012, 2:36 PM
Post #17 of 46 (3115 views)
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Re: [JohnMitchell] Pencil packing??? [In reply to] Can't Post

What is the reason for the cycle to be 180 days?

We have 360 days here.


CSpenceFLY  (D 25252)

Dec 20, 2012, 3:21 PM
Post #18 of 46 (3078 views)
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Re: [JerryBaumchen] Pencil packing??? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Hi Spence,

Quote:
my reserve that had been packed for about 5 yrs

One very well know jumper ( no names will be mentioned ) told me, a number of years ago, that he had to use his reserve that had been packed for 5 yrs. It worked just as designed.

5 year repack cycle anyone? Tongue

JerryBaumchen

I actually wouldn't have a problem with that because I know how my rig is taken care of. I don't leave it outside in the back of my truck, get is wet swooping, piss on it or the likes. I wouldn't want to borrow a 5 yr pack job.


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Dec 20, 2012, 3:32 PM
Post #19 of 46 (3070 views)
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Re: [JerryBaumchen] Pencil packing??? [In reply to] Can't Post

>5 year repack cycle anyone?

George Galloway has been doing testing through 20 years or so. They still open just fine.

Of course whether a typical (in-use) rig will actually open after 20 years is another story . . .


Premier wmw999  (D 6296)

Dec 20, 2012, 6:28 PM
Post #20 of 46 (2998 views)
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Re: [CSpenceFLY] Pencil packing??? [In reply to] Can't Post

And that's the rub. If there's a regulation, it really has to target the average/low average caretaker of gear, not the excellent.

Wendy P.


CSpenceFLY  (D 25252)

Dec 20, 2012, 10:26 PM
Post #21 of 46 (2935 views)
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Re: [wmw999] Pencil packing??? [In reply to] Can't Post

Well of course. But I don't give a shit what the other guy has on his back.Laugh

If someone is stupid enough to not take care of their rig and jump it out of date...


skyjumpenfool  (Student)

Dec 21, 2012, 8:27 AM
Post #22 of 46 (2785 views)
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Re: [CSpenceFLY] Pencil packing??? [In reply to] Can't Post

We're supposed to get repacks? .......Shocked
That sounds expensive.


Krip  (Student)

Dec 21, 2012, 9:05 AM
Post #23 of 46 (2760 views)
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Re: [pottesur] Pencil packing??? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
What is the reason for the cycle to be 180 days?

We have 360 days here.

This is America Wink

We know everything, and our rigger's need the work.Tongue


lauraliscious  (C 35895)

Dec 21, 2012, 11:55 AM
Post #24 of 46 (2637 views)
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Re: [Krip] Pencil packing??? [In reply to] Can't Post

My husband is both a military rigger and a civilian rigger. They are 2 completely different qualifications. I will ask him if he wants to chime in here....


Cutaway68  (D 29478)

Dec 21, 2012, 4:07 PM
Post #25 of 46 (2528 views)
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Re: [CSpenceFLY] Pencil packing??? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Well of course. But I don't give a shit what the other guy has on his back.Laugh

If someone is stupid enough to not take care of their rig and jump it out of date...

Right up until the point they come through you on final.

A rigger pencil packing anything other than their own rig that never leaves their sight/direct supervision, a very bad idea, IMO.


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