Forums: Skydiving: Incidents:
Canopy collision after deployment with video

 

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dorbie

Oct 31, 2012, 9:58 AM
Post #1 of 54 (4010 views)
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Canopy collision after deployment with video Can't Post

Not much more information beyond the video which is pretty informative, looks like a coach jump the way the 'student' is flying and the 'coach' holds onto him and gives him hand signals. After deployment the 'coach' gets line twists following a break-off with no apparent tracking (we can't see the student after he backslides out of frame).

The 'student' turns into the 'coaches' canopy while he's in line twists. The 'student' is also wearing a GoPro camera despite a lack of flying skills and apparent inexperience.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a17_1351640335

Sorry if this is a repost but I looked and did not find this, it is worth a look.


-ftp-

Oct 31, 2012, 10:07 AM
Post #2 of 54 (3969 views)
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Re: [dorbie] Canopy collision after deployment with video [In reply to] Can't Post

The "coach" certaintly didn't track for jack shit, handled EP's pretty quickly which was nice to see but still as usual very avoidable.


FB1609  (C 1409)

Oct 31, 2012, 10:11 AM
Post #3 of 54 (3958 views)
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Re: [dorbie] Canopy collision after deployment with video [In reply to] Can't Post

Those Gopros are so dangerous mounted like that. If you think it's fine, nothing could wrap around that...think again.


Andrewwhyte  (C 1988)

Oct 31, 2012, 10:36 AM
Post #4 of 54 (3889 views)
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Re: [dorbie] Canopy collision after deployment with video [In reply to] Can't Post

Yup, helluva coach jump.
Why on earth was he telling the novice to bring his legs in more? Clearly there was big tension right from exit.
As for him not tracking, I have been guilty of that on coach jumps as you watch the novice's track, but I will generally turn away and delay a bit after the novice dumps. The canopy opened on heading (towards the novice) and the line twists appear to be 100% body position induced.
Noticed he is buying twp handles as well. Gotta wonder at the coach's experience level.


fencebuster  (D 29918)

Oct 31, 2012, 11:38 AM
Post #5 of 54 (3766 views)
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Re: [dorbie] Canopy collision after deployment with video [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't know what that was, but it didn't look like a Coach jump as described in the ISP or any Coach jump I have ever seen. Coaches aren't supposed to hold on for dear life; they are there to provide a target for relative work and evaluate the student, while poroviding hand signals to assist the student with learning. I didn't see much student flying; just two skydivers not flying very well and holding on.


Deisel  (D 31661)

Oct 31, 2012, 12:49 PM
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Re: [fencebuster] Canopy collision after deployment with video [In reply to] Can't Post

+1
This is no coach jump. Looks more like bad skydiving with even worse canopy control. Glad to see they survived without injury.

D


dorbie

Oct 31, 2012, 1:34 PM
Post #7 of 54 (3576 views)
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Re: [Andrewwhyte] Canopy collision after deployment with video [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Yup, helluva coach jump.
Why on earth was he telling the novice to bring his legs in more? Clearly there was big tension right from exit.
As for him not tracking, I have been guilty of that on coach jumps as you watch the novice's track, but I will generally turn away and delay a bit after the novice dumps. The canopy opened on heading (towards the novice) and the line twists appear to be 100% body position induced.
Noticed he is buying twp handles as well. Gotta wonder at the coach's experience level.

Yea I noticed the hand signal was the opposite of what you'd expect too.


dorbie

Oct 31, 2012, 1:38 PM
Post #8 of 54 (3569 views)
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Re: [fencebuster] Canopy collision after deployment with video [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I don't know what that was, but it didn't look like a Coach jump as described in the ISP or any Coach jump I have ever seen. Coaches aren't supposed to hold on for dear life; they are there to provide a target for relative work and evaluate the student, while poroviding hand signals to assist the student with learning. I didn't see much student flying; just two skydivers not flying very well and holding on.

Looks like it's in Germany, but yea I never said it was a good coach jump :-P, I was trying to make sense of it hence the quotes.

Still lessons to be learned here, it's a great video of a serious situation. Here's why you should track and here's why you should look where you're turning your canopy.


(This post was edited by dorbie on Oct 31, 2012, 1:40 PM)


fencebuster  (D 29918)

Oct 31, 2012, 1:58 PM
Post #9 of 54 (3533 views)
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Re: [dorbie] Canopy collision after deployment with video [In reply to] Can't Post

Yeah, I agree that there are lessons to be learned from the video regarding tracking and separation, but that was just two 'tards jumping together. Why they would put it up on the internet, I have no idea.


Cantoral  (D 32469)

Oct 31, 2012, 2:25 PM
Post #10 of 54 (3482 views)
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Re: [dorbie] Canopy collision after deployment with video [In reply to] Can't Post

This was in a DZ in Mexico, as far I know the guy "coaching" have around 150 jumps and no coach rating.


trigger  (D 101390)

Oct 31, 2012, 2:42 PM
Post #11 of 54 (3453 views)
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Re: [Cantoral] Canopy collision after deployment with video [In reply to] Can't Post

Case of the blind leading the blind,no doubt.
Even thought the EP looked panicked (no suprise there)slinging the handles and not even pumping the slider down on the reserve.


gearless_chris  (D 29012)

Oct 31, 2012, 3:10 PM
Post #12 of 54 (3398 views)
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Re: [Andrewwhyte] Canopy collision after deployment with video [In reply to] Can't Post

Premature brake release, you can see one side is set, and the other is not.


jclalor  (B 33202)

Oct 31, 2012, 3:24 PM
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Re: [dorbie] Canopy collision after deployment with video [In reply to] Can't Post

Going from a 260 main to a 160 reserve?

Interesting choice.


Chris-Ottawa  (A License)

Oct 31, 2012, 3:26 PM
Post #14 of 54 (3371 views)
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Re: [dorbie] Canopy collision after deployment with video [In reply to] Can't Post

Geez...where are the DZ.com canopy nazi's? A 260 down to a 160? Shouldn't someone be telling him that he downsized too quickly or something?

This is messed up. Feels like I'm in a parallel universe.


(This post was edited by Chris-Ottawa on Oct 31, 2012, 3:27 PM)


airtwardo  (D License)

Oct 31, 2012, 4:28 PM
Post #15 of 54 (3283 views)
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Re: [trigger] Canopy collision after deployment with video [In reply to] Can't Post

slinging the handles

In reply to:

Plenty on that vid to critique, but throwing the handles isn't one of them.

If someone chooses to hang on to their handles that's fine...if they toss 'em that's fine to.

~ in fact that's the way EP's were taught way back when.

Less chance for entanglement.


irishrigger  (D 297)

Oct 31, 2012, 7:29 PM
Post #16 of 54 (3121 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] Canopy collision after deployment with video [In reply to] Can't Post

well its certainly a very interesting video indeed. lots of points that can be raised and valuable lessons.
i dont beleive that the student was able to learn very much on the jump itself. if that was a coach the hand signals are a lot to be desired. a big smile and a relax signal would have been a good start.
as for the tracking, oh boy where does one start? i dont think the camera guy even turned away properly and looks like he lost sight of the student, thats one thing i always do. its up to the coach or more expirienced jumper to make sure that there is enough seperation me thinks!
fair enough that he opend in line twist those things can happen and there wasnt much chance the video guy could do much about it. but the student looks to be under straight flying canopy and should have been able to some avoidance manouver in my opinion.
also amazing that the student didnt stay wraped in this guys canopy!!
also i think the emergency procedure do look to be fast. personally i would have liked to look below to make sure i could cut away in the first place! no point cutting away if your going to wrap your reserve into something else.
but deleighted to hear that both walked away from this, an amazing escape to say the least!

blue skies


trigger  (D 101390)

Nov 1, 2012, 1:10 AM
Post #17 of 54 (2950 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] Canopy collision after deployment with video [In reply to] Can't Post

Re read my post point being panicked and no surprise there given what happened


mik  (D 11111)

Nov 1, 2012, 1:12 AM
Post #18 of 54 (2948 views)
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Re: [irishrigger] Canopy collision after deployment with video [In reply to] Can't Post

Is this the same incident (I cannot access the original video from work)?

Covered in the UK press today with typical whuffo terminology

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/...ist-crashes-him.html


dorbie

Nov 1, 2012, 1:14 AM
Post #19 of 54 (2947 views)
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Re: [irishrigger] Canopy collision after deployment with video [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
properly and looks like he lost sight of the student, thats one thing i always do.

I'm pretty sure he kept sight, your eyes always have a better field of view than your camera. The student even pops back on the video briefly too in a position that suggests neither tracked away. Separation appeared to be due to backsliding.


airtwardo  (D License)

Nov 1, 2012, 1:38 AM
Post #20 of 54 (2932 views)
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Re: [trigger] Canopy collision after deployment with video [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Re read my post point being panicked and no surprise there given what happened


I understand what you're saying. My point is that it's fine to chuck the handles...period.

Somebody with 20 jumps might think they aren't supposed to and waste time worrying about it.


BenediktDE

Nov 1, 2012, 1:38 AM
Post #21 of 54 (2941 views)
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Re: [jclalor] Canopy collision after deployment with video [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Going from a 260 main to a 160 reserve?
Interesting choice.

I tought the same. But on the other hand: Does the main look so much bigger? (or is the whole rig a borrowed/smaller than used to one?)


trigger  (D 101390)

Nov 1, 2012, 1:47 AM
Post #22 of 54 (2939 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] Canopy collision after deployment with video [In reply to] Can't Post

Agreed, dropped my pud reserve handle on one occasionBlushexpensiveShocked


Mikki_ZH  (Student)

Nov 1, 2012, 5:03 AM
Post #23 of 54 (2827 views)
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Re: [trigger] Canopy collision after deployment with video [In reply to] Can't Post

The dropzone is Tequesquitengo (very nice Dropzone Smile) and the coach forgot the most important rule: never throw away the handles!
At least you never have a problem getting the main back at that dropzone, the locals will usually search it and sell it back to you Smile


DJL  (D License)

Nov 1, 2012, 7:08 AM
Post #24 of 54 (2709 views)
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Re: [Mikki_ZH] Canopy collision after deployment with video [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
the coach forgot the most important rule: never throw away the handles!

Throwing handles is not the most important rule in a cut-away. Also, this guy wasn't a coach.


danornan  (D 11308)

Nov 1, 2012, 7:15 AM
Post #25 of 54 (2701 views)
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Re: [trigger] Canopy collision after deployment with video [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Agreed, dropped my pud reserve handle on one occasionBlushexpensiveShocked

A good training video on what not to do.... and dropping the pud is one of the last thing to worry about!


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