Forums: Skydiving: Incidents:
High Speed Dirt!

 

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stratostar  (Student)

Sep 24, 2012, 1:24 PM
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High Speed Dirt! Can't Post

9-9-12 A jumper in the mid west, as reported to me (I was on load, he got out low I did TDM, no see), did a 180 hook with front riser and held it till impact with no attempt to "dig out" or flare and impacted in mid diving carving turn. After review of the impact crater and following the additional impact marks across the soy bean field, it was clear there was clearly a skipping impact first and then tumbling head over heels to the resting place some 40 to 50 feet later.

The jumper has appx. 300 to 375 jumps and I believe jumps a sabre2 150? He has broken back in C-2 to C-4 and a compound femur. Last word is he will walk again and long painful road ahead. I later heard his go pro was found and he had told someone he was now working on 180's, video showed a full on riser grab, but carving 180 and hold to impact.

Pic 1. Impact skip marks
2. Full impact marks
3. Femur
4. Stop point. There is a guy in the back ground looking at the crater. That is about 40 to 50 ft head over heels tumbling after the glancing bounce.
5. Expensive ride for repair.

This guy knows This one Guy & was there when he crashed, he also knows That Guy One would have thunk that once "this one guy" frapped and then this guy a few weeks later, that, "that guy" would have learned something... then again we say that time after time here.

All three of these guys are lucky to be alive and very lucky medical help was not only fast to respond, but were close at hand to be able to be there quickly. Those are some very long minutes and seconds for not only the injured, but those on the scene tending.

I'm not reporting the locating, the jumpers name or any of that shit, it does not matter, for if you fuck up low to the ground your going to get served high speed dirt and how it all works out in the end is between you, and what ever luck you got left, the reaper and god.... it's an age old lesson.


(This post was edited by stratostar on Sep 24, 2012, 2:53 PM)
Attachments: Impact-skip-mark.jpg (279 KB)
  Full-crater-marks.jpg (260 KB)
  Femur.jpg (242 KB)
  Stop-point.jpg (212 KB)
  Expensive-Helicopter-ride.jpg (269 KB)


piisfish

Sep 24, 2012, 4:04 PM
Post #2 of 34 (5829 views)
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Re: [stratostar] High Speed Dirt! [In reply to] Can't Post

Helicopter is from Lincoln, Nebraska.

Do we have an idea of wing loading ?


stratostar  (Student)

Sep 24, 2012, 4:28 PM
Post #3 of 34 (5784 views)
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Re: [piisfish] High Speed Dirt! [In reply to] Can't Post

no


FB1609  (C 1409)

Sep 24, 2012, 5:30 PM
Post #4 of 34 (5684 views)
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Re: [stratostar] High Speed Dirt! [In reply to] Can't Post

Looks like the plants and softer dirt could have saved his life. Lucky it wasn't hard ground or concrete. Oh well, I guess he's paying for it in lots of ways, Gopro had some factor as well I'd assume.


stratostar  (Student)

Sep 24, 2012, 6:21 PM
Post #5 of 34 (5605 views)
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Re: [FB1609] High Speed Dirt! [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
softer dirt

In most cases I would fully agree, however this has been a record drought and there has been no rain, nada, zip, not a drop.... that ground is hard as hell buddy.

There was no real divot, and using the word crater is not a true meaning of what is there.... looks just like a high speed glancing impact and cart wheeling impacts off to the stopping point.


Divalent  (C 40494)

Sep 24, 2012, 6:59 PM
Post #6 of 34 (5537 views)
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Re: [stratostar] High Speed Dirt! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
... He has broken back in C-2 to C-4 ...
I believe that would be a broken neck (C=cervical)


stratostar  (Student)

Sep 24, 2012, 8:11 PM
Post #7 of 34 (5454 views)
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Re: [Divalent] High Speed Dirt! [In reply to] Can't Post

I know too late to edit




irishrigger  (D 297)

Sep 24, 2012, 11:23 PM
Post #9 of 34 (5269 views)
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Re: [surfbum5411] High Speed Dirt! [In reply to] Can't Post

another one bites the dust hard, my god how many more will we see of these type of incidents???MadMadMad
it seems to me that people just are not hearing the message that seems to be on here every week regarding these accidents.
the only way to stop all of this it appears for every DZ to ban swooping and everyone has to go to a wingloading of 1.0 or less TongueTongueTongue

to the injured person i wish you all the best on your recovery, it sounds like it will be a long road!










Para5-0  (D 19054)

Sep 25, 2012, 7:07 AM
Post #14 of 34 (4869 views)
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Re: [stratostar] High Speed Dirt! [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey Strat,

Thanks for posting, assuming the injured party doesnt get too pissed at you or the DZ for that matter.

As I looked at the pics I had the same feeling I have had while I am standing there with an injured skydiver and it has been many over the years. The photos really bring it home. I almost liken it to a scared straight program. In High School they parked a crashed car outside of the main entrance where a senior died driving while intoxicated. It to this day 25 or so years later is still in my mind. Maybe it works maybe not but I think that bringing these inciddents forward in their entirety can assist us in educating young jumpers.

Understood it will still happen to some degree because of bad decisions, we have an obligaiton to keep trying to reach out and educate. I call that last turn decision the critical decision that you must be 100% confident your altimeter, your sight picture, and your internal intelligence all agree with. I also think that you can make these turns slowly while reaccessing your sight picture the entire way. If at any point the sight picture or your internal voice dictates you must abort with enough altitude and time to address accordingly, hopefully resulting in a cross wind, downwind, safe landing.

As I read each of these injuries or fatalities I keep hoping that this one will be the one that hits home and changes our actions and views of the dangers. A smart jumper always has an out! Committing to a hard turn leaves littel to no out, you are either good or hurt.

Best to the injured skydiver and friends,

Rich


linebckr83  (D 30571)

Sep 25, 2012, 8:29 AM
Post #15 of 34 (4730 views)
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Re: [piisfish] High Speed Dirt! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Helicopter is from Lincoln, Nebraska.

Do we have an idea of wing loading ?

Knowing him personally, if he was indeed on a 150 his wingloading would have been around the 1.3:1 area, maybe a tad higher.


stratostar  (Student)

Sep 25, 2012, 9:06 AM
Post #16 of 34 (4671 views)
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High Speed Dirt! [In reply to] Can't Post

I guessing, he could very well be on a 170. I based that size on seeing his wing in flight. It was not smaller then 150 for sure. In the end none of that shit really matters and that is why I don't bother to find out to post it.

A large part of our industry has been advising and trying to educate for over 15 years now, on the out come of getting it wrong and the right ways to go about safely learning how to do it, yet the best in the world will warn you, it's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when.

My post are not aim to point any fingers at any dz or any person, that could be any one of us next weekend, some by choice and others not by choice. You choose to make your canopy spin and dive towards the ground. Other times nature or another takes you out.

Any canopy in skilled enough hands can kill you at any wing loading and any level of jump exp. all you got to do is try hard enough by choice or by an accident. Regardless of how, we all hate to see the needless pain and suffering and or a life changed forever (24hr care) or death.

It's almost the end of the season for a lot of places, would it really hurt if we all were just be a little more careful out there.




Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Sep 25, 2012, 10:09 AM
Post #18 of 34 (4554 views)
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Re: [stratostar] High Speed Dirt! [In reply to] Can't Post

No PA's - especially not in Incidents. Your one warning.


DocPop  (C License)

Sep 26, 2012, 12:39 PM
Post #19 of 34 (3933 views)
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Re: [irishrigger] High Speed Dirt! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
another one bites the dust hard, my god how many more will we see of these type of incidents???MadMadMad
it seems to me that people just are not hearing the message that seems to be on here every week regarding these accidents.
the only way to stop all of this it appears for every DZ to ban swooping and everyone has to go to a wingloading of 1.0 or less TongueTongueTongue

There will always be this sort of incident. Swooping is an unforgiving discipline.

That's fine so long as you accept it. People will still find a way to frap in with a WL of 1.0. All we can do is keep giving people the right tools, exercises and education to manage the risk in a sensible way.

If you want to be sure to avoid landing injuries then avoid skydiving.


airtwardo  (D License)

Sep 26, 2012, 1:30 PM
Post #20 of 34 (3885 views)
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Re: [DocPop] High Speed Dirt! [In reply to] Can't Post

 

There will always be this sort of incident. Swooping is an unforgiving discipline.

That's fine so long as you accept it. People will still find a way to frap in with a WL of 1.0. All we can do is keep giving people the right tools, exercises and education to manage the risk in a sensible way.

If you want to be sure to avoid landing injuries then avoid skydiving.
No...avoid SWOOPING.

I do, and have avoided landing injuries for 37 years now.


DocPop  (C License)

Sep 26, 2012, 1:54 PM
Post #21 of 34 (3859 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] High Speed Dirt! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

There will always be this sort of incident. Swooping is an unforgiving discipline.

That's fine so long as you accept it. People will still find a way to frap in with a WL of 1.0. All we can do is keep giving people the right tools, exercises and education to manage the risk in a sensible way.

If you want to be sure to avoid landing injuries then avoid skydiving.

No...avoid SWOOPING.

I do, and have avoided landing injuries for 37 years now.
Good job - but that is not the same as nobody ever gets hurt landing unless they swoop. Far from it.


airtwardo  (D License)

Sep 26, 2012, 10:17 PM
Post #22 of 34 (3679 views)
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Re: [DocPop] High Speed Dirt! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:

There will always be this sort of incident. Swooping is an unforgiving discipline.

That's fine so long as you accept it. People will still find a way to frap in with a WL of 1.0. All we can do is keep giving people the right tools, exercises and education to manage the risk in a sensible way.

If you want to be sure to avoid landing injuries then avoid skydiving.

No...avoid SWOOPING.

I do, and have avoided landing injuries for 37 years now.

Good job - but that is not the same as nobody ever gets hurt landing unless they swoop. Far from it.

Ever...I'll give you that.

But there have been considerably more life ending and life changing traumatic injuries caused by improperly executed swoop landings than non induced speed landings.

Before swooping became popular we saw a few broken legs a year, now landing fatalities make up a significant percentage of the annual toll.

It's a personal choice, but I don't believe many give the consequences enough thought or their approach would undoubtedly be somewhat different.

As far as risk, the whole sport is a cost/benefit thing...I wonder if those in wheelchairs forever think the cost of a swoop was worth it. We can't ask the dead ones.

I'm not a ban swooping bandwagon type of guy, just an old jumper that sees a lot of young people trying to do something they are not only unprepared to do but perhaps a bit in denial regarding the seriousness of the consequences OF that.


stratostar  (Student)

Sep 26, 2012, 10:30 PM
Post #23 of 34 (3672 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] High Speed Dirt! [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Before swooping became popular we saw a few broken legs a year, now landing fatalities make up a significant percentage of the annual toll.

It's a personal choice, but I don't believe many give the consequences enough thought or their approach would undoubtedly be somewhat different.

As far as risk, the whole sport is a cost/benefit thing...I wonder if those in wheelchairs forever think the cost of a swoop was worth it. We can't ask the dead ones.

I'm not a ban swooping bandwagon type of guy, just an old jumper that sees a lot of young people trying to do something they are not only unprepared to do but perhaps a bit in denial regarding the seriousness of the consequences OF that.

Pretty much sums it up!


danornan  (D 11308)

Sep 27, 2012, 3:04 AM
Post #24 of 34 (3614 views)
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Re: [stratostar] High Speed Dirt! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
Before swooping became popular we saw a few broken legs a year, now landing fatalities make up a significant percentage of the annual toll.

It's a personal choice, but I don't believe many give the consequences enough thought or their approach would undoubtedly be somewhat different.

As far as risk, the whole sport is a cost/benefit thing...I wonder if those in wheelchairs forever think the cost of a swoop was worth it. We can't ask the dead ones.

I'm not a ban swooping bandwagon type of guy, just an old jumper that sees a lot of young people trying to do something they are not only unprepared to do but perhaps a bit in denial regarding the seriousness of the consequences OF that.

Pretty much sums it up!


The only thing I would add is that I WOULD ban anything intentional that was not predictable in the general LZ. That would include any turn greater than 90 degrees. There is NO excuse for victims in the LZ.


fcajump  (D 15598)

Sep 27, 2012, 5:27 AM
Post #25 of 34 (3556 views)
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Re: [danornan] High Speed Dirt! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Quote:
Before swooping became popular we saw a few broken legs a year, now landing fatalities make up a significant percentage of the annual toll.

It's a personal choice, but I don't believe many give the consequences enough thought or their approach would undoubtedly be somewhat different.

As far as risk, the whole sport is a cost/benefit thing...I wonder if those in wheelchairs forever think the cost of a swoop was worth it. We can't ask the dead ones.

I'm not a ban swooping bandwagon type of guy, just an old jumper that sees a lot of young people trying to do something they are not only unprepared to do but perhaps a bit in denial regarding the seriousness of the consequences OF that.

Pretty much sums it up!


The only thing I would add is that I WOULD ban anything intentional that was not predictable in the general LZ. That would include any turn greater than 90 degrees. There is NO excuse for victims in the LZ.

+1 to each of you


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