Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
Pilot Chute Entangled with Bridle

 

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shibu  (C 42074)

Jul 6, 2011, 2:58 PM
Post #1 of 32 (6134 views)
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Pilot Chute Entangled with Bridle Can't Post

How does a pilot chute become entangled with the bridle.. I would like to know so I can prevent it from happening to me when I pack..

http://www.iloveskydiving.org/...akout-shit-meet-fan/


NWFlyer  (D License)

Jul 6, 2011, 3:14 PM
Post #2 of 32 (6044 views)
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Re: [shibu] Pilot Chute Entangled with Bridle [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.dropzone.com/...rum.cgi?post=3964242

Check post #42 and beyond (discussion of the same incident with some discussion of prevention).


(This post was edited by NWFlyer on Jul 6, 2011, 3:14 PM)


crotalus01  (B 28932)

Jul 6, 2011, 9:32 PM
Post #3 of 32 (5931 views)
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Re: [NWFlyer] Pilot Chute Entangled with Bridle [In reply to] Can't Post

Sometimes it just happens. I have personally seen in the last 4 months the bridle in a perfect halfhitch around the PC. Sometimes when you throw the PC and bridle out into 120 MPH airstream crazy things happen.
The result was a cutaway and reserve deployment from a PC in tow..


DaVinciflies

Jul 7, 2011, 10:37 AM
Post #4 of 32 (5782 views)
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Re: [crotalus01] Pilot Chute Entangled with Bridle [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Sometimes it just happens. I have personally seen in the last 4 months the bridle in a perfect halfhitch around the PC. Sometimes when you throw the PC and bridle out into 120 MPH airstream crazy things happen.
The result was a cutaway and reserve deployment from a PC in tow..

I wonder if this sometimes happens as the PC is withdrawn from the BOC.

Could it be a packing error, not just a "shit happens"?


JohnRich  (D License)

Jul 7, 2011, 11:02 AM
Post #5 of 32 (5768 views)
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Re: [DaVinciflies] Pilot Chute Entangled with Bridle [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Sometimes it just happens. I have personally seen in the last 4 months the bridle in a perfect halfhitch around the PC. Sometimes when you throw the PC and bridle out into 120 MPH airstream crazy things happen...

I wonder if this sometimes happens as the PC is withdrawn from the BOC.
Could it be a packing error, not just a "shit happens"?

Yes, it could be done in packing.

It could also happen from a pilot chute hesitation, where the pilot chute falls into the burble over your back, while the bridle is floating around loose, and then when the pilot chute catches air again and takes off, it tangles with the bridle.

And sometimes even when everything is done right, shit happens anyway.


Premier LouDiamond  (D 25931)
Moderator
Jul 7, 2011, 11:23 AM
Post #6 of 32 (5748 views)
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Re: Pilot Chute Entangled with Bridle [In reply to] Can't Post

As stated, bouncing in the burble as well as a jumper holding onto the hacky/PC while at full arm extension thus allowing the bridle to flap around in the air flow and knot on its self. There used to be a good video of this happening on skydivingmovies.com when it was around. Also, sometime it just happens every once in awhile. Bridles longer than 9' from pin to PC also tend to be prone to this.


CloudyHead  (A License)

Jul 11, 2011, 8:34 PM
Post #7 of 32 (5519 views)
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Re: [shibu] Pilot Chute Entangled with Bridle [In reply to] Can't Post

During my AFF program i was taught to always re-pack the PC as part of the gear check. Problem is, i was shown about 3 different ways. It would be nice to see a step-by-step guide on the best way to pack it. From what i recall the most important things to remember is that the excess bridle is tucked in, and that its not wrapped around the handle! it would be nice to know of the perfect packing technique though, if there is one.


crotalus01  (B 28932)

Jul 11, 2011, 8:46 PM
Post #8 of 32 (5509 views)
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Re: [CloudyHead] Pilot Chute Entangled with Bridle [In reply to] Can't Post

Brian Germain has an instructional video on his preferred method, I am sure someone here can post a link as I dont have it.
Honestly though, if you ask 10 skydivers the best way to stow the PC you will probably get 30 different methods...


Divalent  (C 40494)

Jul 11, 2011, 8:47 PM
Post #9 of 32 (5509 views)
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Re: [CloudyHead] Pilot Chute Entangled with Bridle [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
... it would be nice to know of the perfect packing technique though, if there is one.

There are many variants, but they are all very similar. This Brian Germain's technique, and is the one I use.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axCeYlY_6io


JohnMitchell  (D 6462)

Jul 11, 2011, 11:03 PM
Post #10 of 32 (5492 views)
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Re: [CloudyHead] Pilot Chute Entangled with Bridle [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
During my AFF program i was taught to always re-pack the PC as part of the gear check.
I hope that's not a requirement because I never do THAT.Crazy


CloudyHead  (A License)

Jul 12, 2011, 12:48 AM
Post #11 of 32 (5487 views)
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Re: [JohnMitchell] Pilot Chute Entangled with Bridle [In reply to] Can't Post

 

this is why i was always so nervous about doing this, because at my level i would have RATHER trusted the packer's job than my own.. I tried to skip this during my gear check but got in shit for it..

So then I would always run into manifest on a 20 minute call and spend most of that time trying to get the PC perfect. Crazy


(This post was edited by CloudyHead on Jul 12, 2011, 12:54 AM)


Skyper

Jul 12, 2011, 2:41 AM
Post #12 of 32 (5477 views)
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Re: [CloudyHead] Pilot Chute Entangled with Bridle [In reply to] Can't Post

why don't you reserve some time to sit beside the packer (you apparently trust) and see how he is doing the packjob? those guys are usually friendly and willing to show you their way. Than try it for yourself...


jerolim  (F License)

Jul 12, 2011, 3:53 AM
Post #13 of 32 (5456 views)
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Re: [shibu] Pilot Chute Entangled with Bridle [In reply to] Can't Post

I think, most important is to extract and throw PC far away from your body in single motion, this prevents it from going up into its own bridle.Tongue
Also NEVER hold PC in your hand after it is out of the pouch - bridle sometimes can open container and when you let go PC it can go trough the lines and under the bag and cause a bag-lock.Unsure


Divalent  (C 40494)

Jul 12, 2011, 7:26 AM
Post #14 of 32 (5432 views)
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Re: [CloudyHead] Pilot Chute Entangled with Bridle [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
...So then I would always run into manifest on a 20 minute call and spend most of that time trying to get the PC perfect. Crazy

It's really a pretty simple sequence of steps, and all the variants are basically minor variations of each step:
1. flop PC upside down.
2. fold in half (to make 1/2 moon)
At this point, different techniques do things a bit differently, but the end result is that you end up shortening the width by another half (the simpliest variant is to just fold in half again by folding the curved side over to meet the hackey).
3. fan fold excess bridle on top of PC material.
4. roll up into a stick.
5. stuff into pocket

But always preceed any technique with a check that the PC is cocked. A perfectly folded uncocked PC is not worth much.


monkycndo  (D License)

Jul 12, 2011, 7:35 AM
Post #15 of 32 (5427 views)
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Re: [Divalent] Pilot Chute Entangled with Bridle [In reply to] Can't Post

One other benefit of using Brian Germain's method of folding the pilot chute is that if the pilot chute is not cocked, you won't be able to make the first fold. I once got sidetracked during packing and when I came back to finish, forgot to cock the PC. It wasn't until I was folding the PC that I realized my mistake.


Divalent  (C 40494)

Jul 12, 2011, 8:04 AM
Post #16 of 32 (5407 views)
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Re: [monkycndo] Pilot Chute Entangled with Bridle [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
One other benefit of using Brian Germain's method of folding the pilot chute is that if the pilot chute is not cocked, you won't be able to make the first fold. ...
Wow, I didn't realized that until you said it. That is a most excellent point (and IIRC, he doesn't mention this in his video).

That probably makes it the strongest rationale for using his method. Thanks for pointing this out.


shah269  (A 59581)

Jul 12, 2011, 8:05 AM
Post #17 of 32 (5407 views)
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Re: [monkycndo] Pilot Chute Entangled with Bridle [In reply to] Can't Post

+1 on the Brian Germain method Smile


JohnMitchell  (D 6462)

Jul 12, 2011, 8:13 AM
Post #18 of 32 (5400 views)
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Re: [monkycndo] Pilot Chute Entangled with Bridle [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I once got sidetracked during packing and when I came back to finish, forgot to cock the PC. It wasn't until I was folding the PC that I realized my mistake.
It's important to have some "double checks" built into your packing routine. Although I don't use the BG method yet, I do have a PC double check before folding. Smile


JohnMitchell  (D 6462)

Jul 12, 2011, 8:15 AM
Post #19 of 32 (5396 views)
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Re: [CloudyHead] Pilot Chute Entangled with Bridle [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I tried to skip this during my gear check but got in shit for it..

So then I would always run into manifest on a 20 minute call and spend most of that time trying to get the PC perfect. Crazy
Well, at least they don't make you open the container and check that the brakes are set and the slider is up. TongueLaugh

Really, I think the person making your gear check rules has some trust issues. Smile

With practice, repacking a pilot chute should take less than a minute. Good luck. Smile


(This post was edited by JohnMitchell on Jul 12, 2011, 8:16 AM)


Divalent  (C 40494)

Jul 12, 2011, 9:17 AM
Post #20 of 32 (5384 views)
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Re: [JohnMitchell] Pilot Chute Entangled with Bridle [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
It's important to have some "double checks" built into your packing routine. Although I don't use the BG method yet, I do have a PC double check before folding. Smile
Yeah, a careful routine with built in double checks is very important. Nonetheless, sometimes your routine gets interrupted and/or rushed, or you are distracted while packing. If it's just a mental step, it is still possible to forget.

Thus, it's nice to have a step where an error physically prevents you from doing what you want to do. It's not physically possible to fold the PC using the Germain method if you didn't cock the PC, so if you didn't, you can't fail to notice that you didn't. (Plus, there is the "peace of mind" aspect: you won't later worry that you might have failed to cock it because you can't remember whether or not you double checked it.)


(This post was edited by Divalent on Jul 12, 2011, 9:18 AM)


JohnMitchell  (D 6462)

Jul 12, 2011, 10:12 AM
Post #21 of 32 (5362 views)
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Re: [Divalent] Pilot Chute Entangled with Bridle [In reply to] Can't Post

While we're talking about double checks, how many people double check their brakes after they set them? I always give a good tug upward on the steering line after setting my brakes. That lets me check for any rigging mistakes.

I hear so many people talking about "toggle fires" yet I've never had one. Could it possibly be bad packing?


JohnRich  (D License)

Jul 12, 2011, 10:50 AM
Post #22 of 32 (5350 views)
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Re: [CloudyHead] Pilot Chute Entangled with Bridle [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
this is why i was always so nervous about doing this, because at my level i would have RATHER trusted the packer's job than my own.. I tried to skip this during my gear check but got in shit for it..

So then I would always run into manifest on a 20 minute call and spend most of that time trying to get the PC perfect. Crazy

And that's what makes this sound like a bad idea to me. When you're down to a 20-minute call, you've got more important things to worry about than re-packing a pilot chute that a trusted packer has already packed. By wasting time re-doing that, you're denying yourself valuable time that you need to devote to other things, like reviewing your exit and your dive flow, and emergency procedures. And besides, if the packer can't be trusted to do the pilot chute correctly, then you should remove the entire main canopy and repack that also.


(This post was edited by JohnRich on Jul 12, 2011, 10:54 AM)


jumpsalot-2  (D 33093)

Jul 12, 2011, 11:11 AM
Post #23 of 32 (5339 views)
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Re: [CloudyHead] Pilot Chute Entangled with Bridle [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

this is why i was always so nervous about doing this, because at my level i would have RATHER trusted the packer's job than my own.. I tried to skip this during my gear check but got in shit for it..

So then I would always run into manifest on a 20 minute call and spend most of that time trying to get the PC perfect. Crazy
In reply to:
At your level, you should have taken a full packing couse ( and water training ) by now. Even if you are still renting gear.



.


BrianM  (D 661)

Jul 12, 2011, 4:24 PM
Post #24 of 32 (5282 views)
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Re: [JohnMitchell] Pilot Chute Entangled with Bridle [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Well, at least they don't make you open the container and check that the brakes are set and the slider is up. TongueLaugh

Really, I think the person making your gear check rules has some trust issues. Smile

We teach students to repack the PC when doing gear checks. The same gear is used for IAD, and there is a second PC pouch on the left side of the container (it makes extracting the PC a lot easier). The gear usually gets packed with the PC in the side pouch. We teach students to check where it is as part of their gear check, and how to repack it.

I don't know if this is CloudyHead's situation, but it is possible there is a reason he was taught that.


JohnMitchell  (D 6462)

Jul 12, 2011, 8:18 PM
Post #25 of 32 (5246 views)
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Re: [BrianM] Pilot Chute Entangled with Bridle [In reply to] Can't Post

Interesting. Well, that would be a very good reason to repack it, because it was not in the right pouch. If that's the case, cool. If not, well, that's probably more thorough than I'll ever be. Smile


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