Forums: Skydiving: Gear and Rigging:
Anyone talk to Sunrise or Aerodyne concerning Argus?

 


riggergreg  (D 17489)

Mar 24, 2011, 8:06 AM
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Anyone talk to Sunrise or Aerodyne concerning Argus? Can't Post

I've tried to call and can't get through


piisfish

Mar 24, 2011, 8:12 AM
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Re: [riggergreg] Anyone talk to Sunrise or Aerodyne concerning Argus? [In reply to] Can't Post

and VSE, and TSE, and Jumpshack, and Strong, Parachutres de France, Basik Air Concepts, Parachute Systems, Next, Firebird, MArs, PArachutes Australia end the others ?


Unstable  (D 28930)

Mar 24, 2011, 8:18 AM
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Re: [piisfish] Anyone talk to Sunrise or Aerodyne concerning Argus? [In reply to] Can't Post

YES! I have talked to Nancy and Suzie at Jumpshack ~ I number them amoung my friends. The said that they are going to council with Mr. Goortz, and at this time, they have no plans of making any actions.


Coreefdiver  (D 15287)

Mar 24, 2011, 9:43 AM
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Re: [piisfish] Anyone talk to Sunrise or Aerodyne concerning Argus? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
and VSE, and TSE, and Jumpshack, and Strong, Parachutres de France, Basik Air Concepts, Parachute Systems, Next, Firebird, MArs, PArachutes Australia end the others ?


Parachute Australia and a few other lesser known rigs (here in the US) can be added to the list.

the NZ PIA has more info on their FB and I believe web pages.


roam82  (C License)

Mar 24, 2011, 9:56 AM
Post #5 of 21 (2643 views)
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Re: [riggergreg] Anyone talk to Sunrise or Aerodyne concerning Argus? [In reply to] Can't Post

Wrote an email last night to sunrise, they answered they dont have have any issues with the Argus being used in their containers.


firemedic  (D 29776)

Mar 24, 2011, 10:25 AM
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Re: [roam82] Anyone talk to Sunrise or Aerodyne concerning Argus? [In reply to] Can't Post

Wrote to VSE and their response was that they are going to discuss the issue with Aviacom before taking any action. The reply also said they have not drafted any SB yet.


verticalflier  (D 27220)

Mar 24, 2011, 1:07 PM
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Re: [riggergreg] Anyone talk to Sunrise or Aerodyne concerning Argus? [In reply to] Can't Post

Just to let everyone know that Aerodyne will be coming out shortly with official statement about usage of Argus AAD in Icon harness container. Please be patient and let us gather all needed info to make a fair decision.
We will send out official statement to all our distributors and post those as well on our website so that all interested parties will have full and clear access to where Aerodyne stands on this issue.
Having said that I would like to mention, that in the event when your AAD fires and does not cut through or jams and does not release the closing loop, you can still deploy your reserve by pulling reserve handle. This is true in all Icons, with exception to some made for customers in France, as these were specifically ordered and manufactured with add cutter placement above reserve pilot chute. The rest of Icons have aad cutters placed below reserve pilot chute which placement allows for unobstructed launch of reserve chute by pulling reserve handle. I am not familiar where other manufacturers chose to place their aad cutters please consult your equipment manual and or rigger. Logically if your Icon freefall situation calls for deployment of reserve and your aad malfunctions and no reserve handle is pulled the outcome of it could be serious injury or death. To everyone out there please learn your gear, know how it operates and make right choices in using it so it can keep you safe. Please stand by and keep checking our website www.flyaerodyne.com for official statement on Argus in Icons.


dim_bulb

Mar 24, 2011, 1:29 PM
Post #8 of 21 (2486 views)
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Re: [verticalflier] Anyone talk to Sunrise or Aerodyne concerning Argus? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I would like to mention, that in the event when your AAD fires and does not cut through or jams and does not release the closing loop, you can still deploy your reserve by pulling reserve handle. This is true in all Icons, with exception to some made for customers in France, as these were specifically ordered and manufactured with add cutter placement above reserve pilot chute.

This does not look to be the case based on the aerodyne owners manual that I have, nor the Icons that I have packed.

In reply to:
The rest of Icons have aad cutters placed below reserve pilot chute which placement allows for unobstructed launch of reserve chute by pulling reserve handle.

Les, I tend to agree. If your AAD malfunctions and pinches the reserve closing loop, pulling the ripcord would allow the reserve pilot chute to deploy. However, the issue is with the ability of the reserve parachute (not pilot chute) to exit the container. I for one, would not want to try and land my reserve pilot chute.



We look forward to the official decision of Aerodyne on this matter.


(This post was edited by dim_bulb on Mar 24, 2011, 1:30 PM)


verticalflier  (D 27220)

Mar 24, 2011, 5:48 PM
Post #9 of 21 (2371 views)
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Re: [dim_bulb] Anyone talk to Sunrise or Aerodyne concerning Argus? [In reply to] Can't Post

That is a great point as well. Thanks for pointing it out.
Personally, I hope this issue will be addressed and resolved in a timely manner, so everyone will be able to move on and have fun skydiving safely.


mbondvegas  (A 49817)

Mar 24, 2011, 8:49 PM
Post #10 of 21 (2296 views)
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Re: [verticalflier] Anyone talk to Sunrise or Aerodyne concerning Argus? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
That is a great point as well. Thanks for pointing it out.
Personally, I hope this issue will be addressed and resolved in a timely manner, so everyone will be able to move on and have fun skydiving safely.

Why don't all manufacturers place the AAD cutter under the freebag like on the Javelin?


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Mar 24, 2011, 10:43 PM
Post #11 of 21 (2266 views)
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Re: [mbondvegas] Anyone talk to Sunrise or Aerodyne concerning Argus? [In reply to] Can't Post

Because extracting the loop through 4-7 flaps can take a long time, and sometimes won't result in an opening in time. (One reason that Mirage moved the cutter location even further away from the anchor.)


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Mar 24, 2011, 11:35 PM
Post #12 of 21 (2253 views)
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Re: [verticalflier] Anyone talk to Sunrise or Aerodyne concerning Argus? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Having said that I would like to mention, that in the event when your AAD fires and does not cut through or jams and does not release the closing loop, you can still deploy your reserve by pulling reserve handle.

If the cutter fires you will be way to low to manually put the reserve and expect it open before impact. I would expect a manufacture to understand this. Unsure

Sparky


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Mar 24, 2011, 11:43 PM
Post #13 of 21 (2247 views)
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Re: [piisfish] Anyone talk to Sunrise or Aerodyne concerning Argus? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
and VSE, and TSE, and Jumpshack, and Strong, Parachutres de France, Basik Air Concepts, Parachute Systems, Next, Firebird, MArs, PArachutes Australia end the others ?

Basik Air has spoken.

Sparky
Attachments: ARGUSADVANCEINTERDICTION.pdf (112 KB)


piisfish

Mar 25, 2011, 12:46 AM
Post #14 of 21 (2230 views)
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Re: [mjosparky] Anyone talk to Sunrise or Aerodyne concerning Argus? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
and VSE, and TSE, and Jumpshack, and Strong, Parachutres de France, Basik Air Concepts, Parachute Systems, Next, Firebird, MArs, PArachutes Australia end the others ?

Basik Air has spoken.

Sparky
that is from 2006. IIRC they had authorised it later.


MrHixxx  (D 24144)

Mar 25, 2011, 12:55 AM
Post #15 of 21 (2228 views)
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Re: [billvon] Anyone talk to Sunrise or Aerodyne concerning Argus? [In reply to] Can't Post

Actually, with a 7 flap rig, severing the loop in the bottom of the container can cause a container lock. I think if was a Russian 4 way team that found out about this after going low on a jump and their AADs firing. One of the rigs container locked with the severed piece of closing loop bound between the grommets (must have been offset in grommets with pack job). That's when the cutters were moved on these types of rigs. Bottom of container works fine for pop top rigs.


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Mar 25, 2011, 7:06 AM
Post #16 of 21 (2139 views)
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Re: [MrHixxx] Anyone talk to Sunrise or Aerodyne concerning Argus? [In reply to] Can't Post

>Bottom of container works fine for pop top rigs.

Agreed. But on true poptops (i.e. Racer, Reflex) you have the same problem with a defective cutter locking the reserve closed once it's moved to bottom of container.


diablopilot  (D License)

Mar 25, 2011, 12:41 PM
Post #17 of 21 (2016 views)
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Re: [mjosparky] Anyone talk to Sunrise or Aerodyne concerning Argus? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Having said that I would like to mention, that in the event when your AAD fires and does not cut through or jams and does not release the closing loop, you can still deploy your reserve by pulling reserve handle.

If the cutter fires you will be way to low to manually put the reserve and expect it open before impact. I would expect a manufacture to understand this. Unsure

Sparky

True in a textbook freefall nothing out case, but what if it's a sniveling mal on a main too low, the unit gets scared, and the response is a breakaway?

I like Sherman's idea of a failure mode that does not negatively impact the functionality of the system.

Of course I don't jump an AAD.Wink


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Mar 25, 2011, 1:51 PM
Post #18 of 21 (1983 views)
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Re: [diablopilot] Anyone talk to Sunrise or Aerodyne concerning Argus? [In reply to] Can't Post

>I like Sherman's idea of a failure mode that does not negatively impact the
>functionality of the system.

Simplest way I can think of doing that is having two cutters on either side of a (long) two ended closing loop. That would make you fail-safe for any single failure point. You could do that today with a two-cutter AAD on a one-pin reserve. Would be a pain in the butt to pack though.


grannyinthesky  (D 30311)

Mar 27, 2011, 12:59 PM
Post #19 of 21 (1848 views)
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Re: [riggergreg] Anyone talk to Sunrise or Aerodyne concerning Argus? [In reply to] Can't Post

Here's a link to Aerodyne on Facebook. https://www.facebook.com/...rch-LLC/287559164745 I haven't looked for it on their webpage.
Frown


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Mar 27, 2011, 4:49 PM
Post #20 of 21 (1781 views)
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Re: [grannyinthesky] Anyone talk to Sunrise or Aerodyne concerning Argus? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Here's a link to Aerodyne on Facebook. https://www.facebook.com/...rch-LLC/287559164745 I haven't looked for it on their webpage.
Frown

Aerodyne has banned them.

Sparky

http://www.flyaerodyne.com/fly/support.asp


theonlyski  (D License)

Mar 27, 2011, 4:57 PM
Post #21 of 21 (1773 views)
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Re: [mjosparky] Anyone talk to Sunrise or Aerodyne concerning Argus? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Here's a link to Aerodyne on Facebook. https://www.facebook.com/...rch-LLC/287559164745 I haven't looked for it on their webpage.
Frown

Aerodyne has banned them.

Sparky

http://www.flyaerodyne.com/fly/support.asp

Direct link to the SB http://www.flyaerodyne.com/download/SB250311.pdf



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