Dec 30, 2007, 9:23 PM
Post #1 of 28
Two months ago I broke my ankle on landing, I saw the ground coming up with pretty much no wind so I decided to "TRY" to plane out my canopy and do a 2 stage flare, I knew I was going in fast so I tried to slide in but my left toe caught the ground and flipped my foot backwards. Now after 10 screws and a metal plate and learning what true bordem really is I can only sit and dream of the day I jump again, and think damn a PLF would have been a good idea that day.
Now after 10 screws and a metal plate and learning what true bordem really is I can only sit and dream of the day I jump again, and think damn a PLF would have been a good idea that day.--------------------------------------------------------- Hope you get better soon. 10 screws and a plate! Sounds like a fib/tib/joint break. Had one myself many years ago. A PLF is always a great idea. Wish I had thought of it, too!
Use the hardware as an excuse to do a water jump if you don't have one yet.
(edited to add) I know a water jump isn't required for a D license anymore, but you do want to jump, right?
(This post was edited by zoobrothertom on Dec 31, 2007, 6:34 AM)
I had a similar incident last Friday. Drove 6 hours to do some chopper jumps, had a nice swoop but saw I was heading for the taxi-way (tar) and tried to skid & slow down. I managed to put my foot down right on a rock! Luckily nothing was broken, but I've got a bad sprain whilst I'm supposed to join some buds for 4-ways day after next 12hr return journey for 1 jump
Funny thing is, I still joked (OK, complained) about the condition of the landing area (rocks, holes, etc) before going up, so I knew the risks.
Moral to the story is - Don't f*ck with Murphy. He hears every little jibe
Hope you heal soon. You can still hang out at the dz in the meantime - you'll learn loads just by chatting to everyone there & still have fun
Next time you try to plane a landing out like that I have noticed that students try to slide in with straight legs out in front of them like riding a skateboard but with the legs straight.... I suggest when you do it that you bend your knees and pull your legs up towards you so that your legs are raised, this gives you more room for error when landing and planning on sliding it out. Same sort of thing that swoopers do you raise your legs when coming in fro stage one of the flare and then when it starts slowing down you slowly lower your legs to the slide position or run off position.
I am not an instructor and this is not professional advice, it is coming from a person who was once a student who took 100s of jumps to finally realise how effective it was to raise the legs just like the swoppers do when coming in for a fast landing.
I know amateurs should not be copying pro swoppers but they do it because it makes sense and i think you should learn to do it, Raise the legs.
I've saved myself from some pretty bad looking landing a few times by doing that. I KNOW, that on a couple of them, i would have broken something if I didn't raise my legs up while the flare was able to finish. ..
Actually, after thiking long and hard about my post i would like to add that students should ptalk to an instructor first as reading about it is not the same and it may put you in a worse of situation if you raise your legs so that you may bounce off your ass.
My wing loading is 1.0. I have only a few jumps in a long time span, and I prefer to jump with light winds, no more than 12-14 mph. As a result, I've had many no wind jumps, without ever getting hurt (knock on wood). Here is a photo sequence of one of those times. I bring my legs up instinctively I guess, right or wrong. I've wondered why I always manage to slide in so softly, and I've only had to plf a few times, successfully. I don't know if this helps any, but if anyone (with a lot of jumps) wants to give input or suggestions on my solution, I'm all ears.
Bit of input- I think you are strying to slide in on your ass in that photo without even realising it, maybe a thing of sub-concious fear of landing on your feet and hurting yourself, i dont know.
It seems there that before the first photo is taken that your legs must be out in front of you and your knees bent so your legs raise in front of you at the slightest touch of the ground, also when you are flaring you pull your breaks down as you should but your instinct is to pull them down behind you as you prepare to slide in on your ass.
Try coming in for your landing and if your canopy is a ZP canopy, try putting your right leg straight down but bend your knee and your left leg in front of you and your knee raised a bit to the same height of your right leg. You need to be 'sitting' in your harness for this. When you flare, flare to just below your shoulders or 'stage 1' of the flare, lift your legs up higher so your knees are just under waist height by about 6 inches and then let your canopy slow itself down and as it is slowing down gently start lowering your legs, one slightly in front of the other until the softly touch the ground and then take it from there with stage 2 of your flare (full brakes) and then slide it off or run it in.
I dont know how acurate this descriptions will come across in text so dont go out there and just try it, go and watch some more experienced jumpers and try and imagine what my text is saying while you watch them.
The first thing you need to do is start getting comfortable in your harness and out of the 'student' positon in the harness. After opening, slide the leg straps down to just under your ass so you can sit in it like a chair. Once you learn to do this and sit in your harness everything i just tried to explain will come very naturally. When you flare, dont go right down in one motion to full brakes, go to half brakes, let it pan out and then touch the ground as it is slowing down and then go to full brakes. Dont have BOTH your legs in front of you because the instant reaction when both legs are in front is for the knnes to bend straight up in front of you bringing you to your sliding in on your ass. You want one leg in front to balance your foward movement and one straight down to balance when you start to lean backwards.
I hope some of this comes across how it is intended.
If anyone disagrees please say so, or if someone can explain what i am saying in a better way please do.
I only wrote the story of what happened here, but since another new skydiver replied I will give somemore info about the accident because I would hope my mistake will stop it from happening to someone else, because it f***ing sucks. I had just bought my first rig which I was proud of a Vector 2 w/ a Sabre 170. I jump in Hawaii so no wind is "usually" not a problem. I happen to be fond of food and beer so my exit weight is about 210 so my wing loading is too high for me but in Hawaii I have been pushed backwards flying a 190 so normally a 170 is perfect for the winds. Does this explain what happened to me jumping the 170 with almost no winds, probably, I personally don't think so but I'm the one sitting here with a screws in my ankle and what seemed like a normal landing got me rushed to the emergency room. I have started losing weight since and still doubt I will jump the 170 for a while after I get back into it. I don't know how other people have taken to the sport after injury but I think I'll walk for a while before I run.
Hey, Hope i have not offended you , i was just trying to give you some useful information.
Either way, You have injured yourself and i know it must suck. I have been lucky to avoid injury so far, thank god for that.
You would have learned a lot from your injury and even if you dont realise it now i am sure that you will never make the same 'mistake' again. When i say mistake, i am not saying that you fucked up or anything but maybe next time you will not allow as much pressure on your legs as it sounds like you may have in this one. Doing what i described, i believe that when doing it this way that your feet only ever touch the ground when your canopy speed has come to the end.
Either way, from the reply you just wrote it sounds like you have taken what has been said as a lecture and i did not intend for it to be that way. Sorry
You didn't offend me at all, I noticed in your first reply that you were a novice like me and there was another reply by another novice. I appreciate the advice, I just noticed everyones response was about different ways to pretty much make a nice "sloppy" landing. I just wanted to throw in there that it was a good chance I injured myself because of my canopy and low jump numbers. I was was confident with the canopy, I just learned the hardway that confidence is easily broken when the conditions change. Since I have nothing to do now but read and talk about skydiving I'm trying to take in all the helpand advice can, so I do appreciate it and I'm sorry i came accross that way.
My years in the sport are acurate, My jump numbers on the other hand..... The reason i stopped entering my jump numbers a coupld of years ago was because every week i would do more jumps and after a month it would keep bugging me that my jump numbers were wrong by 100 or so. The only reason i i have entered any number is because if you dont it has that annoying clicky there asking you to enter jump numbers.
Well Moose123, I can feel your pain! Literally! I had a tib/fib break in Sept. I remember being a few months into this thing & feeling like I could beat someone over the head with my boot (I wasn't cool enough to get a cast )& still not get any gratification!
I have found that ankle breaks are common! Just my luck! I had one of my prettiest landings so far....& yes my numbers are correct ...& still I managed to break my ankle. At least you had an excuse!!! I do a GREAT skydive & awesome landing then decide to walk out my landing...get my toes caught on some grass...Then bam...I am on the ground! Go figure....I can skydive...Just can't Walk!! HA!
Has your doc said anything about removing your hardware??
Oh by the way attached is an x-ray just after the boot came off.
None the less, I hope you feel good soon!!! We will both be in the sky soon enough!!!!
I'm walking finally with my boot the new nickname is Moose-in-boot, not to proud of that one. I was told I will be in the boot for another month and I have no idea what to expect after. The doc strongly urged me not remove the hardware unless I absolutely have problems and can't take it.
I made it out to the DZ finally this weekend to thank those who helped me off the field of glory, they all said it looked like a soft landing just had an accident, and I realized that ankles are fragile it snapped like a toothpick. I don't believe I hit the ground wrong the earth moved as my feet hit, or at least that's what I tell people. I just hate the ignorant people when you tell them you broke your ankle skydiving that ask sh*t like "Oh your parachute didn't open?". But over all it has been a good learning expierence and I'm sure I'll be a much more aware skydiver when I get back.
Funny though on Sunday at the DZ there was no winds and watching the people land made me feel better because my break looked alot smoother than most of their landings, and it was nice to see since I broke my ankle people stopped using landing patterns...
I quit telling people how I broke it...I get questions like that too! Or I get the "No Way!!!!!" "You didn't really break it like that!!!" I just decided to tell everyone I fell over a chicken. They usually give up. Besides it totally throws them off guard!
After 4 months I am now jogging and walking pretty close to perfect. They say I can jump again so I'm really excited, however I'm aprehensive as hell( I know i will be until my feet touch down safetly the 1st time). I am wondering if any of you have any advice on returning back to the sport after injury. I know I won't be jumping my 170, probably more like a 220 or 240. but either way that doesn't stop me from being nervous
I noticed you WL is at like a 1.24 with a 170. most people would not recommend that WL if you were current. You should probally upsized till you get a couple hundred more jumps, then maybe you should go back to your 170. Best luck to you. Glad your back.
Agree... somewhat... and I apprecieate the caveats you mention... I think what you're trying to say (please correct me if I'm worng) is be prepared for a "baseball slide". This can certainly work. Elsewise, not banging on PLFs, but I have always been of the opinion that performing a PLF on a square, especially a square of any loading at all, is "difficult" unless one commits to "I'm going to PLF" way way early in the landing evolution as opposed to when one is in the midst of the flare, run out, swoop, skid, slide, what ever you want to call it... just my 2 cents. However, for yours and everyone else's consideration, there are arguements that the "baseball slide" can (may) expose the person to a greater potential for hip, tailbone, spine injury if they wind up doing the "flying butt slam" vs. a slide or even a poor PLF. About 10 years ago now, I wound up shattering my right ankle (tib, fib fracture, 8 screws & a plate that I've had subsequently removed) after a low turn trying to "force" a landing on a particular spot (pea pit). My take away was "It was my fault", "don't do that again". Set things up higher and pilot your canopy better vs. relying on canopy performance to try to "save it" late; land walk away, jump more, coolness be damed. In the end, I'd have rather not broken my ankle back then, but I learned from it AND if I had to break something to learn that, I'd rather it be my ankle then my hip bone, tail bone or something in my spine.... anyway... just my 2 cents.
(This post was edited by ZigZagMarquis on Feb 19, 2008, 7:16 PM)