Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
Flying a Two canopy out situation

 


loflyer  (D 25696)

Feb 1, 2005, 11:27 AM
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Flying a Two canopy out situation Can't Post

[;)I heard at my DZ this past weekend, that they have been doing some experimental testing concerning flying/controlling a two canopy out situation. From what I understand, the original way of flying a two (square) canopy out situation by flying the rear outside risers of both canopies (in a side by side)is not what they are suggesting now... I was told that one Canopy Manufacturer is saying to release the toggles on the more "dominant" canopy and fly that canopy... I was just wondering if anyone else has info on this....

Sly


larsrulz  (C 34603)

Feb 1, 2005, 11:40 AM
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Re: [loflyer] Flying a Two canopy out situation [In reply to] Can't Post

It appears someone needs to read their SIM. CrazyWink

The SIM says that if you wish to land both canopies on a biplane then:

(1) Release the brakes of the dominant canopy (larger and more overhead) and steer gently with the toggles.

(2) Land without flaring and perform a parachute landing fall.

When talking to students about this, I also tend to encourage only turns towards the center, so if the main (the more dominant on our student gear) is on the right, then make only gradual left turns unless absolutely necessary.


loflyer  (D 25696)

Feb 1, 2005, 1:42 PM
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Re: [loflyer] Flying a Two canopy out situation [In reply to] Can't Post

CrazyOK, call me crazy.. :)But I have read the SIM, & read exactly what you said, but what I was wondering is what is the pro's and con's to releasing the toggles in the first place... Having one canopy in full flight & the other in 1/2 brakes, just doesn't seem to be a better alternative. I fly a Saber 150 (main) & a PD 143 (reserve) so of course my main would definetly be the dominant canopy, but what would this do to the reserve that is still in 1/2 brakes??? And would this be harder or easier than leaving the toggles stowed & flying both canopies???Sly I know this is the suggestion, but just courious as to the benefits of releasing the toggles??? I went thru the AFF program about 8yrs ago, so I guess I really question new ideas on malfunctions & how to handle them with the adavances of all these new High Performance Canopies..


dorbie

Feb 1, 2005, 2:02 PM
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Re: [loflyer] Flying a Two canopy out situation [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.performancedesigns.com/docs/dualsq.pdf


beezyshaw  (A 3393)

Feb 1, 2005, 2:05 PM
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Re: [loflyer] Flying a Two canopy out situation [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
what I was wondering is what is the pro's and con's to releasing the toggles in the first place... Having one canopy in full flight & the other in 1/2 brakes,
I think the idea of releasing the brakes on the higher, more forward canopy is to keep it in front of (by it flying faster) the other canopy. The bi-plane is a pretty stable 2-out situation, and with the brakes released on one canopy there is less likelyhood of the canopies moving into a side-by-side, which can become a downplane.


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
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Feb 1, 2005, 2:19 PM
Post #6 of 13 (1666 views)
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Re: [loflyer] Flying a Two canopy out situation [In reply to] Can't Post

>but just courious as to the benefits of releasing the toggles?

One benefit is that that's what will probably happen (i.e. you will open, release your brakes, and then feel your reserve bumping around.) In other words, the scenario is preparing you for what will probably happen.


windcatcher  (A 47377)

Feb 1, 2005, 2:49 PM
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Re: [loflyer] Flying a Two canopy out situation [In reply to] Can't Post

CrazyI had this situation once; I chopped my main. My 2 canopies were stacked above each other I think. Even though at the time they told me I did good by chopping, I still need to go over the procedures for a 2-out situation. I've heard that when the canopies are stacked, one flying slightly in front of the other, it's safe to land like that right? (but if they're fighting each other side by side, then you cut away?)


kelpdiver  (B 7)

Feb 1, 2005, 3:06 PM
Post #8 of 13 (1631 views)
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Re: [loflyer] Flying a Two canopy out situation [In reply to] Can't Post

guys, the first post seems to be talking about dealing with a side by side 2 out, while many of the responses are covering a biplane? It's not quite clear which we're talking about.

The two student guides I got in 2003/2004 differed on handing the 2 outs. In at least one biplane and side by side, one said cutaway, the other said keep if stable.

Would everyone agree that the PD report is a good paper to make one's decisions, given the differing opinions floating on how to handle the problems?


jsaxton  (D 26818)

Feb 1, 2005, 4:06 PM
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Re: [billvon] Flying a Two canopy out situation [In reply to] Can't Post

No shit ;)


dorbie

Feb 1, 2005, 4:33 PM
Post #10 of 13 (1604 views)
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Re: [billvon] Flying a Two canopy out situation [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
>but just courious as to the benefits of releasing the toggles?

One benefit is that that's what will probably happen (i.e. you will open, release your brakes, and then feel your reserve bumping around.) In other words, the scenario is preparing you for what will probably happen.

Page 4 paragraph 3 of the PD report I linked to seems to cover this issue and explains the advice w.r.t. biplane configurations.


diablopilot  (D License)

Feb 1, 2005, 7:37 PM
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Re: [loflyer] Flying a Two canopy out situation [In reply to] Can't Post

I highly recommend avoiding the scenario all together.


jas8472  (C License)

Feb 2, 2005, 4:44 AM
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Re: [diablopilot] Flying a Two canopy out situation [In reply to] Can't Post

FYI

http://www.zct.co.uk/...7/squareonsquare.htm

&

http://www.zct.co.uk/...g03/canopiesout.html

BPA MAG ARTICLE


(This post was edited by jas8472 on Feb 2, 2005, 4:48 AM)


beezyshaw  (A 3393)

Feb 2, 2005, 6:43 AM
Post #13 of 13 (1462 views)
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Re: [diablopilot] Flying a Two canopy out situation [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I highly recommend avoiding the scenario all together.
Unless you like doing crew but just can't get comfortable with being that close to someone else in the skyWink



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