Forums: Skydiving: Incidents:
two seconds from impact at Davis.

 

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apoil  (D License)

Sep 13, 2004, 2:42 PM
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two seconds from impact at Davis. Can't Post

On Sunday after a most excellent freefly skydive I deployed my main into spinning line twists, most likely due to a toggle fire.

I made an attempt to get under them, got a half twist out and gave up. The cutaway force was slightly hard but not too big of a deal. I was probably just above 2000 feet at this time. I fumbled a little for my reserve ripcord and pulled. I wasn't particularly concerned with stablity.

My troubles were only just beginning.

My reserve pilot chute wrapped around my ankle and got dragged out so that there was not much bridle between my ankle and the freebag.

At this point I realized I was going to die.

I grabbed the reserve bag, which was fortunately within reach, grabbed at the locking stows and some material and pulled. BAM. I found myself instantly under an inflated reserve. No issues, controllable, and facing downwind. It was the hardest opening I've ever experienced. I turned around and landed, simultaneously with my freebag.

My protrack registered deployment at 400 feet, 73 seconds of freefall from 13000. Most of it head down.

No RSL. The CYPRES fired but long after the reserve had been pulled.

NEVER GIVE UP!


jumperconway  (D 24335)

Sep 13, 2004, 2:59 PM
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Re: [apoil] two seconds from impact at Davis. [In reply to] Can't Post

NEVER GIVE UP!

Well said! Glad ya didn't die!


JRock

Sep 13, 2004, 3:00 PM
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Re: [apoil] two seconds from impact at Davis. [In reply to] Can't Post

What altitude did you pull at for your main?


Scrumpot  (D License)

Sep 13, 2004, 3:07 PM
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Re: [apoil] two seconds from impact at Davis. [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I grabbed the reserve bag, which was fortunately within reach, grabbed at the locking stows and some material and pulled. BAM. I found myself instantly under an inflated reserve. No issues, controllable, and facing downwind. It was the hardest opening I've ever experienced....

And no doubt the MOST WELCOMED too! Smile
WOW! Amazing job keeping your wits about you to actually pull this off. Thank you for sharing the experience.

Any video available perchance?
Blue Skies,
-Grant


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Sep 13, 2004, 3:09 PM
Post #5 of 169 (5526 views)
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Re: [apoil] two seconds from impact at Davis. [In reply to] Can't Post

>I fumbled a little for my reserve ripcord and pulled.
>My reserve pilot chute wrapped around my ankle . . .

A quicker reserve pull may have helped avoid this problem, as an RSL may have. The first instant after you cut away you are feet-into-the-relative-wind to some degree, and this helps keep the reserve PC away from your feet.


QuickDraw  (C License)

Sep 13, 2004, 3:14 PM
Post #6 of 169 (5506 views)
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Re: [apoil] two seconds from impact at Davis. [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
My protrack registered deployment at 400 feet, 73 seconds of freefall from 13000. Most of it head down.

I would recommend having a go on the state lottery this week.

.. as well as an extra scoop of vanish in the washer.

Any chance of seeing the Pro-Track data if its not too much trouble ?


JDBoston  (D 26450)

Sep 13, 2004, 5:53 PM
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Re: [apoil] two seconds from impact at Davis. [In reply to] Can't Post

Fuckin' A. Congratulations on being alive. This one's an attitude lesson for anyone and everyone. Nice job.

Joe


kelpdiver  (B 7)

Sep 13, 2004, 6:10 PM
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Re: [apoil] two seconds from impact at Davis. [In reply to] Can't Post

Where were you with relation to the LZ, upon opening? Not over the gun range, I imagine, as a free flyer and later in the exit order. No troubles with landing on the fields to the south?


jumpinjackflash  (B 27757)

Sep 13, 2004, 6:28 PM
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Re: [apoil] two seconds from impact at Davis. [In reply to] Can't Post

Damn,

Reading it made my palms sweat.

GREAT WORK

I hope if/when I have to perform, I manage to keep it together and get it done like you did.

Damn fine job.


j


diablopilot  (D License)

Sep 13, 2004, 7:11 PM
Post #10 of 169 (5144 views)
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Re: [billvon] two seconds from impact at Davis. [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
A quicker reserve pull may have helped avoid this problem, as an RSL may have. The first instant after you cut away you are feet-into-the-relative-wind to some degree, and this helps keep the reserve PC away from your feet.

EXACTLY! So much for being "stable" when you deploy your reserve.


rhino  (D 22500)

Sep 13, 2004, 7:33 PM
Post #11 of 169 (5112 views)
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Re: [apoil] two seconds from impact at Davis. [In reply to] Can't Post

Well done.. Glad you are still with us!

Rhino


Mad47

Sep 13, 2004, 7:37 PM
Post #12 of 169 (5104 views)
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Re: [apoil] two seconds from impact at Davis. [In reply to] Can't Post

One of my mentors had a reserve PC in tow on racer (if Im not mistaking) rig. He finally managed to extract the reserve at what witnesses on the ground say between 50 and 200 ft (according to him it was about 200 ft) by pulling the bridle after several unsuccessful attempts to get a grip on it. Mind blowing story, I did not believe it before I heard it directly from him. Same lesson.

Kudos to you for not giving upWink


mcneill79  (A License)

Sep 13, 2004, 7:42 PM
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Re: [apoil] two seconds from impact at Davis. [In reply to] Can't Post

Good job Cliff... In my short time in the sport that is the closest I've been to a scary incident. It really hit home with me and has made me think alot more seriously about putting an RSL on my rig, especially after billvon's comment.


Eiley  (E 1165)

Sep 13, 2004, 8:16 PM
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Re: [apoil] two seconds from impact at Davis. [In reply to] Can't Post

Wow. Way to go on not being dead right now. Great job.

Hope you kept the protrack data for posterity! (And proof, for all those years from now when someone around the bonfire says "400 feet? I don't believe you....") Wink

Quote:
NEVER GIVE UP!

This bit of advice is worth the repeat. Smile


(This post was edited by Eiley on Sep 13, 2004, 8:19 PM)


GravityGirl  (D 18897)

Sep 13, 2004, 8:34 PM
Post #15 of 169 (5010 views)
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Re: [apoil] two seconds from impact at Davis. [In reply to] Can't Post

Interesting.

I had a very similar incident last winter.

Line twists. Cut away. Got flung off ass over tea kettle, even though I arched when I cut away.

Attempted to get stable to pull my reserve. Now for my first mistake: I grabbed air with my legs. So when I pulled my reserve my freebag also caught my foot.

Being old and jaded, I pull at 3500, and recognized uncontrollable line twists pretty quick, so I chopped just under 3K.

I managed to get the P/C off pretty quickly. Opened hard an in line twists on my 113. At that point I heard myself say, "I'm Jett's mom, I can't land this." I got out of that and landed uneventfully.

So now I struggle with the RSL/no RSL question. I used one all the way down to a 120. Then removed it when I went to a 97. Now on my 89 I still jump no RSL.

Of the three cutaways I have had due to line twists, I only got stable after cutting away once. And that was because I had cut away at 10,000 ft.

So I want to hear from anyone who has direct experience with a bad situation that was cause by an RSL. One that does not involve wearing camera or any other snag factor.


jumperconway  (D 24335)

Sep 13, 2004, 8:52 PM
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Re: [mcneill79] two seconds from impact at Davis. [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Good job Cliff... In my short time in the sport that is the closest I've been to a scary incident. It really hit home with me and has made me think alot more seriously about putting an RSL on my rig, especially after billvon's comment.

An RSL wouldn't have helped in this situation I don't believe!Crazy


GravityGirl  (D 18897)

Sep 13, 2004, 8:55 PM
Post #17 of 169 (4986 views)
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Re: [jumperconway] two seconds from impact at Davis. [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Good job Cliff... In my short time in the sport that is the closest I've been to a scary incident. It really hit home with me and has made me think alot more seriously about putting an RSL on my rig, especially after billvon's comment.

An RSL wouldn't have helped in this situation I don't believe!Crazy

I disagree. It is quite possible that he would have been more stable at the point the RSL activated.

How do you figure that it would NOT have helped?


jumperconway  (D 24335)

Sep 13, 2004, 9:06 PM
Post #18 of 169 (4973 views)
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Re: [GravityGirl] two seconds from impact at Davis. [In reply to] Can't Post

The rsl wouldn't have had a chance to be activated IMHO


jerm  (D 23994)

Sep 13, 2004, 9:13 PM
Post #19 of 169 (4965 views)
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Re: [jumperconway] two seconds from impact at Davis. [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
The rsl wouldn't have had a chance to be activated IMHO

how in blazes do you figure that? he had a successful cutaway, that's all that's neede for an rsl deployment.... were you reading a different incident or talkking about a different type of rsl?


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Sep 13, 2004, 9:24 PM
Post #20 of 169 (4955 views)
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Re: [jumperconway] two seconds from impact at Davis. [In reply to] Can't Post

>An RSL wouldn't have helped in this situation I don't believe!

It would have caused an instant reserve deployment. That means two things - one, his reserve would have been open higher, and two, he wouldn't have had time to tumble into a feet-downwind position. So it would very likely have helped.


ahegeman  (A License)

Sep 13, 2004, 9:33 PM
Post #21 of 169 (4950 views)
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Re: [billvon] two seconds from impact at Davis. [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
>
A quicker reserve pull may have helped avoid this problem, as an RSL may have. The first instant after you cut away you are feet-into-the-relative-wind to some degree, and this helps keep the reserve PC away from your feet.

That's huge. I'd never thought about it like that. I think I'll get a RSL installed in my rig on my next repack.


Deuce  (D 25597)

Sep 13, 2004, 9:34 PM
Post #22 of 169 (4945 views)
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Re: [GravityGirl] two seconds from impact at Davis. [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
Good job Cliff... In my short time in the sport that is the closest I've been to a scary incident. It really hit home with me and has made me think alot more seriously about putting an RSL on my rig, especially after billvon's comment.

An RSL wouldn't have helped in this situation I don't believe!Crazy

I disagree. It is quite possible that he would have been more stable at the point the RSL activated.

How do you figure that it would NOT have helped?

Bonnie, you probably know all about my three reserve rides, none of which were RSL

#1 under a spinner at Lodi at big ways. At 2000 feet deployed a spinner on my Spectre and chopped. deBar cacthed my main and freebag before they landed on the freeway

#2 pilot chute in tow, probably my not cocking my pilot chute, waited two thousand feet before deploying reserve

#3 unable to release brake line while in wingsuit. Chopped while spinning up. Either due to tension knot or other. Possibly preventable by taking care of suit stowage higher up.


basehoundsam

Sep 13, 2004, 9:56 PM
Post #23 of 169 (4926 views)
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Re: [billvon] two seconds from impact at Davis. [In reply to] Can't Post

I'll buy that under a Sorceror or Skyhook...... but I don't buy that an RSL deploying a spring mounted p.c. will keep you from flipping thru your lines or giving yourself bad body position. The bad Mr. Bill videos are a testament to what can go wrong on sub-terminal sail-slider deployments of parachutes. Altitude permitting stable body position would probably be optimal. Reality dictates that a lot of people having cutaways under angry canopies are deploying under 3,000 feet, and may not have the opportunity to get super flat and stable before reserve deployment.
I personally enjoy deploying my H.P. canopies with plenty of altitude to get rid of them and be stable for a 1,000 ft reserve pull. I have other toys for deploying below that hard deck. I would gladly install a skyhook into my rig if they offered a version for Javelins.

Just my limited experience/opinion.

Jay Epstein Ramirez
www.adrenalineexploits.com
Keeping You From Dying Of Boredom !!


GravityGirl  (D 18897)

Sep 13, 2004, 10:14 PM
Post #24 of 169 (4909 views)
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Re: [basehoundsam] two seconds from impact at Davis. [In reply to] Can't Post

Again, I'll ask the question:

"Does anyone have any first hand experience where an RSL has made a situation worse?"

This does not apply to camera, boards or any other device (snag factor) that you have strapped to your body.

I have heard story after story of fatalities where an RSL could have saved the jumper. Couldn't find the handle. Pulled reserve too low.

Of course I deploy with ample altitude to deal with my high performance canopy. But sometimes shit happens and you find yourself in the basement.

So....

....anyone....


chileanXaos  (C 143)

Sep 13, 2004, 10:35 PM
Post #25 of 169 (4884 views)
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Re: [GravityGirl] two seconds from impact at Davis. [In reply to] Can't Post

I was in my jump 24 on my sabre and opened with knots on the lines , the canopy startes spinning and I choped it , my reserve opened with three line twists , and I think it was because I didnt have the time to get stable.


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