Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Photography and Video:
$ for tandem vids

 

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jdhill  (D License)

Jul 8, 2003, 8:06 AM
Post #26 of 41 (1292 views)
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Re: [skydiver51] $ for tandem vids [In reply to] Can't Post

Is there an abundance of camera folks at your DZ? You left out the profit that is already built in to the $15 for the slot... camera folks are getting screwed at your DZ... factor in $5 for a pack job, $5 for the edit (about the going rate), $3 for gear maintenance, $3 for camera upkeep, $1 for VHS, $3 for film and DV... cameraflyers profit = $0 Crazy

Josh


leroydb  (D 25743)

Jul 9, 2003, 9:16 AM
Post #27 of 41 (1263 views)
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Re: [Pendejo] $ for tandem vids [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Freakflyguy,

There is more to the story than the DZ "just keeping" the other 30 dollars.

1) The video guy does not do any of the editing work.
2) The video guy does not supply the vhs tapes to use for editing.
3) The video guy does not own the editing equipment to do the editing with.

It may not be the same at every DZ but at the ones that are charging big bucks and paying the video guy's big bucks there is alot more to it than just keeping the rest of the money. Remember... it isn't a non profit org.

Pendejo

what are you talking about? I edit all of my vid, I buy my tapes (4 bucks), and I have allmy own eq. I know this might not be the "norm" but alot of people do have their own equipment...
LE


stratostar  (Student)

Jul 10, 2003, 9:04 PM
Post #28 of 41 (1226 views)
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Re: [Pendejo] $ for tandem vids [In reply to] Can't Post

Freakflyguy,

There is more to the story than the DZ "just keeping" the other 30 dollars.

1) The video guy does not do any of the editing work.
2) The video guy does not supply the vhs tapes to use for editing.
3) The video guy does not own the editing equipment to do the editing with.

It may not be the same at every DZ but at the ones that are charging big bucks and paying the video guy's big bucks there is alot more to it than just keeping the rest of the money. Remember... it isn't a non profit org.

Pendejoyou are sadly mistaken if you think that video guys
just fall with a camera on their heads, a hell of a lot of us do ALL our own work and have a hell of a lot of gear to do ALL our own work.Cool

hell my helmet alone cost 3,280.00 (with cam's and switches on board) digital still camera
plus 3 rigs,jumpsuits, and mixer board, title board
sound mixer, cd's, 2 tv's, 2 vcr's, pc-7 for backup,
printer for digital stills, film for 35mm stills,35mm camera, photo paper, batteries& chargers 3sets, mini dv film, 8mm film, and tapes to dub on to.
and soon a dvd burner to buy more shit for!
And not one dz I have ever worked for had any editing gear,(worth a shit) we had to do it all, and this is the end result, my having all this huge investment in having fun.and I have fun! do you think the dzo is going to replace my helmet and cameras if I have to chuck it to save my ass? I don't think so...
so it sounds to me like a lot of folks need to get a clue,(you & some dzo's) sure anyone can strap a video camera to the head and shoot video then come down and pretty it up on some laptop or P.C. because they can't fly worth a shit and get the money shots, hell most around nowdays think it's their skydive, wrong it's the person paying that 70 bucks skydive they paid for it and want good results, and they should get it.
the pro's that can deliver should be paid in full for the work, if the price is 70$ the dz should get slot
and the video guy should get the rest.
and the wantabees should keep paying their dues till they can fly the slot, and not be used by dzo's just because they can't wait for a real video guy to be free, but oh well thats a tandem mill for you.Tongue
flame away.
stratostar


skydiver51  (F License)

Jul 11, 2003, 6:30 PM
Post #29 of 41 (1188 views)
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Re: [jdhill] $ for tandem vids [In reply to] Can't Post

No. I'm the only one at our DZ. It' not very big. But I like flying a camera and don't expect to make big money or recoup the cost of my equipment very fast.


flyingfrog  (D 25992)

Jul 14, 2003, 7:06 AM
Post #30 of 41 (1154 views)
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Re: [skydiver51] $ for tandem vids [In reply to] Can't Post

just to give you an idea how it works in other regions (Swiss)
a tandem ride cost CHF 380 .- if the customer want to have a video
he has to pay extra CHF 150.- the video man get the whole CHF 150.-
but has to pay his slot (which is CHF 40.-), doing all the editing stuff


tictoc  (D 23506)

Jul 14, 2003, 5:20 PM
Post #31 of 41 (1134 views)
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Re: [stratostar] $ for tandem vids [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey D B Cooper AKA stratostar. I'm not here to flame you in any way, actuly I agre with you. However I did find it interesting the name, jumps, ratings, etc. I was just wondering what your qualifications for making this statement were.


stratostar  (Student)

Jul 14, 2003, 8:18 PM
Post #32 of 41 (1114 views)
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Re: [tictoc] $ for tandem vids [In reply to] Can't Post

I was just wondering what your qualificationsA little over 30 years involvement this sport.


tictoc  (D 23506)

Jul 15, 2003, 8:58 AM
Post #33 of 41 (1082 views)
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Re: [stratostar] $ for tandem vids [In reply to] Can't Post

A little over 30 years involvement this sport.I don't question that at all but why do you hide who you are? or is that in deed your real name?


(This post was edited by tictoc on Jul 15, 2003, 8:59 AM)


jimoke  (D 20444)

Jul 18, 2003, 3:39 PM
Post #34 of 41 (1022 views)
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Re: [stratostar] $ for tandem vids [In reply to] Can't Post

I agree with you, mostly because I seem to be in the situation you describe. I have bought all the equipment, paid the price to learn how, but, I jump for a club, so no one is actually a dzo. I have been one of three guys doing "freelance" tandem video. I seem to be in charge, I guess quality control, if you will. my foundation lies with the student should get a great product. every one here edits themselves on their personal equipment, buys tapes,film and mailing $3.85per video.
we charge $60.for video $90. with stills. the video guys pay for their slot, -$20. so I try to shoot stills as often as possible for the extra $30.
although I have worked in Hawaii where it is much different.
they charge up to $100. for video $175.with stills and the cameraman gets $22.50 for the jump minus taxes was $17.50 per jump. paradise seems to have a price.
it is all about the customer! dzo's should see that, video is their best form of advertising. but alas, a dzo needs to make something. it is their DZ.
interesting thread though
Jimoke


tkhayes  (D 18764)

Oct 25, 2003, 1:59 AM
Post #35 of 41 (941 views)
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Re: [freekflyguy] $ for tandem vids [In reply to] Can't Post

the DZ has invested WAY Mor ethan the videographer in HIS /HER business, that is why they should also get a cut. The DZ is not there because of th etandem video. The tandem video has a job because the DZ is there


skydiver51  (F License)

Oct 25, 2003, 8:44 AM
Post #36 of 41 (921 views)
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Re: [mark135] $ for tandem vids [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes things are different at most DZs. Where I jump we only use a c182 and slots are 15.00 to 10,000. I'm the only camera flyer. We charge 150.00 for a tandem, 50.00 for video. I do all the editing, I supply the tape, and now we mail the videos since I put ALOT into the video other than just taking it off the camera and putting it on tape. Of the 50.00 I get 20.00. Have been told numirous times I will be getting a bigger cut. Been about a year now and no extra money. I supply my own editing equipment also along with my camera. My complaint, if fun jumpers pay 15.00 for a slot, the DZO ( who does the tandems by the way ) gets 150.00 for the tandem, why do I only get 20.00? Guess I should find a new DZ huh?


hoym  (D 12622)

Oct 28, 2003, 10:49 AM
Post #37 of 41 (841 views)
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Re: [jimoke] $ for tandem vids [In reply to] Can't Post

 and mailing $3.85per video.
----------------------------------------
The US Postal Service will deliver video tapes under their 'Book' rate or 'Media' rate price schedule.

I put the tape in an envelope, write 'Media Material' on the side and put $1.44 worth of stamps on the envelope and drop it in the mail box. I went to the post office first to have them weigh the package and tell me how much I needed in postage.

A friend of mine mails his in a fancier box and he needs a little more postage.

---------------------------------
It seems that there are several types of arrangements available for camera flyers to work at a dz.

1) Employee, (dz provides a paycheck w/ tax withholding)

2) Contract Employee, (dz pays w/ no tax withheld)

3) Freelance (Self employed /Customer pays cameraman directly)

There is quite a difference in how a DZ might operate a camera concession. A DZ might provide the camera, editing equipment, people to do the editing, tapes, etc. and own the entire operation and have much more control including control over who is allowed to be a camera operator.

Another DZ may allow any independent cameraman to peddle their wares so to speak and set their own prices and product differentiation from other camera operators.

Most probably operate somewhere in between these two examples.

I don't have any problem with a DZO charging the camera operator for the slot plus a little bit more. They have done all the work to get the customer there. We don't have to do any advertising. Just show up and our customers are there, all thanks to the DZO and the work they've done and their investment in the planes, etc.


Pendejo  (D 22642)

Oct 31, 2003, 8:38 AM
Post #38 of 41 (759 views)
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Re: [stratostar] $ for tandem vids [In reply to] Can't Post

Sorry Stratostar,

I don't do flame posts. I think you are not taking the post I make in the context it was meant so I will clarify it. I agree that there are a lot of people that charge money for sub-par work on the part of the videographer (although I think we all need to remember when we started and how hard it was). The post was what the video concession conditions are at BSA (I run the concession). We have just make a transition from an owner who didn't believe he needed to make money on every facet of his business. After a summer of not having a regular DZ to jump at I feel that the DZ must make money where it can (having to drive 3 hours to jump sucks). To date we have been doing non-liner editing (that will change next week CAJONES YOU ARE THE MAN) on a pc. As for the money we ALL spend on our gear, The DZO would argue that they spend around $10,000 per tandem rig to allow both us and them the opportunity to make money. That being said, I think the money we choose to spend is our choice (to a certain extent). As for me thinking that video guys "just strap on a camera" that is a comment that a rookie would make, not someone who has over 8000 skydives. Anyone who flies more than 1 or 2 video jumps per week knows that is obviously not the case. Unfortunately most non Video people have no clue how the added weight, stress (if you have ever blown a tandem passengers 18th birthday video because of a technical problem you know what I mean), and demands put on the body can turn it from just a "fun jump" into real work. As for the rest it sounds like you have some issues to work out with our DZO.

Pendejo


skydiver51  (F License)

Oct 31, 2003, 11:55 AM
Post #39 of 41 (733 views)
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Re: [hoym] $ for tandem vids [In reply to] Can't Post

My complaint is if the DZO (who is also the tandem instructor) gets 150.00 for the tandem jump why take more than the cost of the slot from the camera man? Our DZO gets 200.00 for a tandem and video and he pays the cameraman 20.00. If he gets his money from the 150.00 for adver. then why cut the cameramans pay? Shouldn't the cameraman get the whole 50.00 and then pay for his slot then keep the rest?


(This post was edited by skydiver51 on Oct 31, 2003, 11:58 AM)


hoym  (D 12622)

Oct 31, 2003, 7:19 PM
Post #40 of 41 (715 views)
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Re: [skydiver51] $ for tandem vids [In reply to] Can't Post

I am able to make a little bit of money by shooting video of tandem passengers. As long as my local DZ is in business, I can work on the weekends (which I enjoy) and I only have to drive 45 minutes to get to work.

If the tandem passenger pays $75 for the video, I don't mind paying more than the $20 for the seat on the airplane. Anything I can do to help the DZ stay in business is good for me.

I look at any amount that I might pay over the $20 jump ticket as my contribution toward advertising or just as a way to say 'thanks' to the DZO for taking the financial risk of buying the airplane. (I've owned an airplane before. Believe me, it is a financial risk.) While I do NOT have a partnership interest or financial investment in this DZ, I try to approach it with the attitude that it is a partnership. If he stays in business, then I get to stay in business and I get to keep jumping.

Now I also believe that it is important to be fair. I don't want a DZO to take advantage of me and I try not to be too greedy and ask for too much from him. The quandary is that most people have their own opinion about what is fair. If this DZO started taking too big of cut, at some point, I'd have to drive to another DZ that would let me work there. Or, I'd have to buy another airplane and get back into the business. Neither of those are very appealing to me. I've got it good now and, if at all possible, I want everything to stay just that way it is.

I would enjoy paying just the $20 jump ticket and keeping the remaining $55 for myself. I don't think I would consider it fair to if I could only keep $20 out of the $75. Hopefully, somewhere in there is a happy medium where a DZO and employee can be able to agree.

Like others have said, I have a lot of money invested in a lot of gear that is needed to produce the product. And, I've made a lot of jumps that allow me to be fairly consistent in what I produce.

Forget about the sunk cost of the equipment and don't even think about trying to calculate the cost of making so many jumps over so many years to get the flying skills. If I only added up the amount of time that I put into a single tandem video from shooting the pre-jump gear-up to post jump interview to packing my parachute to editing the video (at home w/ Premiere), etc., from an hourly rate, I probably don't get paid enough.

But... (And this is what it is all about) it sure is fun.


monkeyKam  (D 18541)

Nov 1, 2003, 7:17 PM
Post #41 of 41 (689 views)
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Re: [mark135] $ for tandem vids [In reply to] Can't Post

I run the monkeyKam concessions at Skydive Tecumseh in Michigan and the new Skydive South Beach (owned by the same guy) in Pahokee, FL.

I pay the camera people $35 per student video. We have editors who build the videos and hand off the VHS (or DVD) and film (or CD) to the student. The editors get $5 an edit. There are two computers that allow the editor to crank through about 6 videos per hour, so the pay is pretty good for the editors.

The camera people get just 5 shots: Pre-jump interview, walking to and into the plane, one quick shot and comment on the way up, the skydive, and the landing/post-jump interview. That's it. They shoot the 5 shots, take pictures and hand all that in after the jump.

There's a whole process that makes the camera concession run very smoothly. The DZ never waits on camera guys, unless we're just simply short of camera people, which is my problem, not the DZ's. The DZ takes all the money from the student (one stop shopping, one credit card swipe, no hassles). The DZ is already set up to do 1099's for the staff, so the DZ pays the camera people, right into their account, if they wish. Everything that's left over is given to monkeyKam in a check each week as a management fee and an advertising expense for the DZ.

The management fee is the operating budget for the concession. monkeyKam buys all the miniDV tapes for the camera people, all the 35 mm film, the compact flash cards (for digital cameras), the VHS tapes, labels, sleeves, video waivers/model release forms, DVD's, computers, software, miniDV decks, DVD recorders, and anything else that is required to make the student videos come out looking kick-ass and in a reasonable amount of time.

I think that pretty much covers it, without getting into the nitty-gritty of the processes.

Happy camera-ing! Blue skies and safe swoops!

Andy


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