Forums: Skydiving: Gear and Rigging:
R.S.L'S do you use one?

 

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Poll: R.S.L'S do you use one?
always, wouldnt jump without one 43 / 16%
have one but dissconect it for some jumps 67 / 25%
dont have one, dont want one 134 / 49%
get that silent killer away from my rig 26 / 10%
whats an R.S.L.? 2 / 1%
272 total votes
 
juanesky  (C 33620)

Jun 19, 2003, 11:31 AM
Post #51 of 69 (905 views)
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Re: [nicknitro71] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
It's kind of the shit it's happening in the middle east. It has been there since I can remember and it will be there long after I will be gone.

I am doing something about this now, I joined the Navy.......

Blues skies!


Jethers203  (D 24352)

Jun 19, 2003, 1:17 PM
Post #52 of 69 (890 views)
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Re: [livenletfly] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

What's up everyone? I chose Don't have one, don't want one. The reason is because I live in the southwest desert and dustdevils are everywhere on hot summer days. There have been times where they have come out of nowhere and have done some pretty screwy things with are canopies.

One time, a dustdevil hit one of our jumpers as she was landing and it picked her up 40 feet in the air and threw her like a ragdoll. Luckily she only broke her back and femur.

Anyway, standard procedure at our DZ when encountering a dustdevil on the ground after landing is to cutaway. With an RSL, you would get pretty messed up and have to pay for a reserve repack if you didn't get too hurt or killed.

John D-24352


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Jun 19, 2003, 1:23 PM
Post #53 of 69 (887 views)
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Re: [Jethers203] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

>Anyway, standard procedure at our DZ when encountering a dustdevil
> on the ground after landing is to cutaway. With an RSL, you would
> get pretty messed up and have to pay for a reserve repack if you
> didn't get too hurt or killed.

This is a myth. Unless you are dealing with 50MPH winds, cutting away with an RSL attached will cause your reserve PC to deploy and perhaps your freebag to fall out - your reserve won't deploy. You can try this yourself if you want. On a really windy day, when no one is jumping, go out, stand in a field in the windiest place, and throw your PC. See if your main deploys. (You can try with your reserve as well but that's more expensive.)


Jethers203  (D 24352)

Jun 22, 2003, 11:05 AM
Post #54 of 69 (850 views)
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Re: [billvon] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

Bill,

The whole point of cutting away the main if there is a dustdevil is so you don't get hurt when the thing picks you up. You can either get picked back up into the air or dragged. Neither of which would be fun.

The reason not a lot of people at our DZ use RSL's is because we don't want to have to get our freebags and reserves put back in and waste $35.00.

I don't think we are being too wrong to do this.


Hooknswoop  (D License)

Jun 22, 2003, 11:19 AM
Post #55 of 69 (848 views)
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Re: [Jethers203] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
The reason not a lot of people at our DZ use RSL's is because we don't want to have to get our freebags and reserves put back in and waste $35.00.

I don't think we are being too wrong to do this.

Just disconnect it under canopy..........

Hook


Jimbo  (D License)

Jun 22, 2003, 11:30 AM
Post #56 of 69 (846 views)
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Re: [Jethers203] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

 
Quote:
The whole point of cutting away the main if there is a dustdevil is so you don't get hurt when the thing picks you up. You can either get picked back up into the air or dragged. Neither of which would be fun.

I don't think that Bill said it was a bad idea to cut away your main in the event of a dust devil, I think what he said is that it's myth that your reserve will inflate after an RSL enabled cutaway on the ground, even near a dust devil.

Quote:
The reason not a lot of people at our DZ use RSL's is because we don't want to have to get our freebags and reserves put back in and waste $35.00.

I don't think we are being too wrong to do this.

I'm not going to get into the should I use an RSL or shouldn't I debate, but I do have to point out that this is a decision that should be influenced entirely by safety, not by finances. Your decision to skip the RSL because it might cost you $35.00 to have your rig put back together... well, I guess that's your decision.

-
Jim


(This post was edited by Jimbo on Jun 22, 2003, 4:39 PM)


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Jun 23, 2003, 11:48 AM
Post #57 of 69 (794 views)
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Re: [Jethers203] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

>The whole point of cutting away the main if there is a dustdevil is so
> you don't get hurt when the thing picks you up. You can either get
> picked back up into the air or dragged. Neither of which would be fun.

For that to happen, the reserve has to inflate. A dust devil generally won't do that. Like I said, take the windiest day of the year, go outside and throw your pilot chute. See if your main inflates.

>The reason not a lot of people at our DZ use RSL's is because we
> don't want to have to get our freebags and reserves put back in and
> waste $35.00.

That might be a good reason if it happens a lot, but I think I'd be afraid to jump at a DZ where I had to regularly cut my canopy away after landing. A dust devil will kill you ten times as dead if you run into it in the air as opposed to on the ground.

In any case, if that's the only reason to not have an RSL - disconnect it before you land.


Jethers203  (D 24352)

Jun 25, 2003, 3:50 PM
Post #58 of 69 (743 views)
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Re: [billvon] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

This thread asked if we use RSL's. I said no, and gave my reasons why. My whole reason for not using one is not because I am worried about paying for a reserve repack, I just said that jokingly as a side note.

As far as:
Quote:
take the windiest day of the year, go outside and throw your pilot chute. See if your main inflates.

No shit!!! But, the topic is RSL's and reserves inflating. Mains don't have spring loaded pilot chutes.

Quote:
A dust devil will kill you ten times as dead if you run into it in the air as opposed to on the ground.
Quote:

So, you still can get hurt or killed anyway!!!!!

Quote:
In any case, if that's the only reason to not have an RSL - disconnect it before you land.


Yeah, you can do that if you act fast enough!!!!

Anyway, enough with the pissing contest. I said what I said and I had some valid reasons for saying these things.

Besides, I like to control what happens to my chute. I can pull my own damn reserve handle. I wouldn't mind the double freefall either. Now that was a joke, I had to say that so I don't get jumped on.

John D-24352


(This post was edited by Jethers203 on Jun 25, 2003, 3:53 PM)


rigging65  (D 21921)

Jun 25, 2003, 5:35 PM
Post #59 of 69 (730 views)
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Re: [Jethers203] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Besides, I like to control what happens to my chute. I can pull my own damn reserve handle.

Yeah, about a dozen people a year say that...and then they don't say anything else...ever.


sundevil777  (D License)

Jun 25, 2003, 6:10 PM
Post #60 of 69 (723 views)
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Re: [Jethers203] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't use one.

I have pulled my own spare 3 times, high speed, low speed and total mal.

However, in my opinion, the choice to not use an RSL for the ordinary (not CRW or camera) jumper is not justified by a logical examination of the risks. Even for those jumping high performance canopies.

In my opinion, those of us who choose not to use an RSL should not pretend that our position is totally rational. Even a Cypres, which is a countermeasure for the no reserve pull when a cutaway is high enough, does not help like an RSL for the low cutaway scenario (it doesn't matter why you might cutaway low - it does happen).

So, to summarize: some of our decisions are not completely logical (meaning it is somewhat emotional), and we should just accept that people will weigh the relative risks differently.

What is really important is not trying too hard to convince new jumpers to come to the same conclusion.


Premier wmw999  (D 6296)

Jun 25, 2003, 8:35 PM
Post #61 of 69 (708 views)
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Re: [sundevil777] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
What is really important is not trying too hard to convince new jumpers to come to the same conclusion.
Well put

There's a huge difference between convincing someone of something, and providing them with plenty of information so they can make a decision.

When I got my current rig, I took the RSL off first thing, due to lots of old prejudices (I go back a ways). But it's on now. I've proven I can pull my own reserve 7 times; 4 of them were even after a cutaway.

I wear my seat belt, too. Seat belts have hurt, but they've helped a whole lot more people. I guess that's how I feel about RSLs now, too. Since I don't jump camera or CRW (and if I were to do CRW I can always disconnect it), it's much more likely to help. It's not a pride thing -- no one but me has to know I can pull my own reserve.

Wendy W.


(This post was edited by wmw999 on Jun 25, 2003, 8:36 PM)


Premier skybytch  (D License)

Jun 25, 2003, 8:38 PM
Post #62 of 69 (704 views)
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Re: [Jethers203] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
No shit!!! But, the topic is RSL's and reserves inflating. Mains don't have spring loaded pilot chutes.
I've pulled a reserve handle on the ground outside on a very windy day. The p/c fired, the freebag was pulled out of the container and fell to the ground.


rigging65  (D 21921)

Jun 26, 2003, 10:30 AM
Post #63 of 69 (673 views)
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Re: [sundevil777] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I don't use one.

I have pulled my own spare 3 times, high speed, low speed and total mal.

However, in my opinion, the choice to not use an RSL for the ordinary (not CRW or camera) jumper is not justified by a logical examination of the risks. Even for those jumping high performance canopies.

In my opinion, those of us who choose not to use an RSL should not pretend that our position is totally rational. Even a Cypres, which is a countermeasure for the no reserve pull when a cutaway is high enough, does not help like an RSL for the low cutaway scenario (it doesn't matter why you might cutaway low - it does happen).

So, to summarize: some of our decisions are not completely logical (meaning it is somewhat emotional), and we should just accept that people will weigh the relative risks differently.

What is really important is not trying too hard to convince new jumpers to come to the same conclusion.

Thank you! Finally someone has the balls to stand up for their convictions, even though they know their argument isn't supported by the facts. Just like Sundevil said, you're free to make your own choices, but the hard facts show jumping with and RSL is safer than jumping without one.

Don't jump with one if you don't want to, but at least have the trust in your own choice to say "I'm doing it because I want to, even though I know it's not the safest way to jump."

This sport is still about freedom to choose, so choose as you will. But make sure you've got all the facts before you do so!

Good on you Sundevil! Smile


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Jun 26, 2003, 10:43 AM
Post #64 of 69 (669 views)
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Re: [Jethers203] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

>No shit!!! But, the topic is RSL's and reserves inflating. Mains don't
> have spring loaded pilot chutes.

Correct. That means reserve PC's are a lot more likely to fall to the ground and stay there; they are heavier. "I don't want my reserve to inflate if I cut away after landing in high winds" is not a reasonable concern. "I don't want my reserve to have to be reclosed" is reasonable, but it's a convenience rather than a safety concern.


SkydiverRick  (D 13360)

Jun 26, 2003, 10:47 PM
Post #65 of 69 (639 views)
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Re: [livenletfly] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't see the need to use a RSL myself.I've pulled a few reserve handles in the last 22+ years, so I feel confident that I'll pull it the next time. I feel that my cypres is all of the "stupid insurance" that I need. I'm not anti-RSL, it may be appropriate for someone under different circumstances.
Rick


alan  (D 17868)

Jun 27, 2003, 10:40 AM
Post #66 of 69 (616 views)
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Re: [Jethers203] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Anyway, enough with the pissing contest. I said what I said and I had some valid reasons for saying these things.

Actually, the point of the pissing contest is to get the point across to you that you did NOT present VALID reasons. You bought into an old myth. Kinda like the old "you have to hook it to get decent landings".


Iflyme  (B 4421)

Jun 27, 2003, 1:40 PM
Post #67 of 69 (601 views)
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Re: [livenletfly] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm with Wendy. I have an RSL. I have not had a cutaway yet. I'll keep the RSL in place, except on those jumps with the CReW flyers.


Jethers203  (D 24352)

Jun 27, 2003, 3:17 PM
Post #68 of 69 (586 views)
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Re: [billvon] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm through!!!!!

I said what I said and had my own reasons for doing so. I know the reserve will not fully inflate. The reason I don't use RSL's is because like Bill said,
Quote:
"I don't want my reserve to have to be reclosed"
if something minor happens.

John D-24352


sprtdth  (D 4730)

Jun 29, 2003, 11:40 PM
Post #69 of 69 (555 views)
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Re: [livenletfly] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes I have a RSL on my rigs. They are disconnected. I have had about 15 cut aways since I started jumping in 1972. The only reason I have them now is to use as a "last hope rope" as on the old Crossbows. And my Crossbow has a Stevens (early RSL) I have that disconnected too.


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