Forums: Skydiving: Gear and Rigging:
R.S.L'S do you use one?

 


Poll: R.S.L'S do you use one?
always, wouldnt jump without one 43 / 16%
have one but dissconect it for some jumps 67 / 25%
dont have one, dont want one 134 / 49%
get that silent killer away from my rig 26 / 10%
whats an R.S.L.? 2 / 1%
272 total votes
 
livenletfly  (D 28096)

Jun 13, 2003, 10:32 AM
Post #1 of 69 (2645 views)
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R.S.L'S do you use one? Can't Post

im sure this polls been done before, but it always makes for great debate. theres alot of points for and against so lets hear them.
personaly i dont have or want one
.


(This post was edited by livenletfly on Jun 13, 2003, 11:01 AM)


mofo554

Jun 13, 2003, 10:35 AM
Post #2 of 69 (2601 views)
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Re: [livenletfly] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

Not to be picky, but the third and fourth choices are the same.


livenletfly  (D 28096)

Jun 13, 2003, 10:42 AM
Post #3 of 69 (2585 views)
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Re: [mofo554] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

no dude your being real picky. the difference is answer 3 implies i dont want one. answer 4 implies i think they're dangerous.
.


Asta  (D 9657)

Jun 13, 2003, 10:44 AM
Post #4 of 69 (2576 views)
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Re: [livenletfly] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

I just bought a new used rig, and it has RSL. My last two rigs didn't though. I think RSL is a good thing that makes more good than bad in the long run. But personally, if I buy used gear that doesn't have it, I don't get it either.


Yoshi  (D 26770)

Jun 13, 2003, 10:44 AM
Post #5 of 69 (2573 views)
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Re: [livenletfly] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

dont have one dont want one. I jsut a hp canopy and leave myself time for my hard deck vs opening alti (also have a cypress) and if I get a nasty spinner I dont want to be on my back when the reserve is comming out.. if I jumped a larger canopy I would use it...
-yoshi


bivar  (B 42662)

Jun 13, 2003, 10:50 AM
Post #6 of 69 (2558 views)
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Re: [livenletfly] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

A friend of mine would still be alive if he had one. Frown


MrHixxx  (D 24144)

Jun 13, 2003, 11:28 AM
Post #7 of 69 (2515 views)
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Re: [livenletfly] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

I have an elliptical and a camera on my head, so no. I have also adjusted my deployment height and hard deck to 3000 and 2000 respectfully.
If I didn't have these things, I would probably have and RSL and be pulling a 1000' lower.

-Hixxx


SkydiveMonkey  (B 102345)

Jun 13, 2003, 11:31 AM
Post #8 of 69 (2509 views)
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Re: [livenletfly] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

Don't have one, but I will quite happily jump a rig that has one


Ron

Jun 13, 2003, 12:03 PM
Post #9 of 69 (2484 views)
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Re: [livenletfly] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

Don't have one, nor want one.

But I have done 6 cutaways.
I did lose a friend who would be alive today if he had one...but he also would be alive if he pulled his reserve.

I think you should have one until you have a cutaway and pulled both handles.

Unless you are doing CRW, or jumping with a camera

Ron

edit to clear something up....pull, not land with your handles.


(This post was edited by Ron on Jun 13, 2003, 12:33 PM)


rgoper  (C 32349)

Jun 13, 2003, 12:39 PM
Post #10 of 69 (2450 views)
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Re: [livenletfly] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

i utilzed one until my first cut-away. i don't have one now, and i can't see as i'll have any use for one in the future. i know what i'm going to do if my main deployment goes to hell. i do urge newer skydivers who have never had a main cutaway and a reserve deployment and pulled both handles to utilize one until this time.


Premier wmw999  (D 6296)

Jun 13, 2003, 1:24 PM
Post #11 of 69 (2428 views)
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Re: [rgoper] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

I just hooked mine back up after having it off on the first reserve repack. It's not to pull the reserve for me; I've pulled mine plenty of times, in plenty of time.

It's to pull it faster than I can if I'm stupid enough to cut away low enough to need it. Think of it as stupid insurance; kind of like my Cypres. There is always a possibility of its making things worse, but with a lightly-loaded semi-elliptical and no camera, that's not a big problem.

Wendy W.


BadDog  (D 23279)

Jun 13, 2003, 1:35 PM
Post #12 of 69 (2411 views)
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Re: [livenletfly] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

I used mine, until I found myself flat on my back under a spinning main and had to chop it. The reserve came out just fine, except for the line twists..................

Now my RSL is disconnected. But my AAD is still on.


AndyMan  (D 25698)

Jun 13, 2003, 1:44 PM
Post #13 of 69 (2401 views)
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Re: [livenletfly] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

I had mine removed after my first cuttaway, and before I started jumping camera.

_Am


geanky  (C License)

Jun 13, 2003, 2:01 PM
Post #14 of 69 (2383 views)
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Re: [livenletfly] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

don't have one because of my canopy (elliptical, good loading) if not then i would probably have it


tbrown  (D 6533)

Jun 13, 2003, 3:05 PM
Post #15 of 69 (2358 views)
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Re: [mofo554] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Not to be picky, but the third and fourth choices are the same.

Not to be even pickier, but there was no option for those who don't have one but want or intend to get one. The questions seem skewed towards an anti RSL bias, i.e. "that silent killer".


SkydiveMonkey  (B 102345)

Jun 13, 2003, 3:11 PM
Post #16 of 69 (2352 views)
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Re: [tbrown] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

And maybe an option for "gimme a skyhook" Smile


robskydiv  (D 26660)

Jun 13, 2003, 4:31 PM
Post #17 of 69 (2314 views)
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Re: [SkydiveMonkey] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

  I've used the RSL everytime except for three camera jumps. Now the skyhook looks like a promising development.


(This post was edited by robskydiv on Jun 13, 2003, 4:32 PM)


livenletfly  (D 28096)

Jun 13, 2003, 6:00 PM
Post #18 of 69 (2287 views)
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Re: [tbrown] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

i said right in post i do not like rsl's. im a skydiver not a journalist i dont have to be 100% un biased to take a poll. i thought it was pretty fair, 2 answers pro rsl's 2 answers anti rsl's sounds balanced to me. o well cant please everyone.
p.s. "the silent killer" was qouted by bill booth some people claim he knows a thing or two about gear.
anyway blueskies and fun dives


aneblett  (B 5001)

Jun 13, 2003, 11:26 PM
Post #19 of 69 (2238 views)
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Re: [livenletfly] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

There is one option that is missing. That is have one but don't use it.

I didn't have one on my old rig and when I bought this one the rsl connector was free and so I had it installed but I am not currently using it.

Age


masher  (D 3806)

Jun 14, 2003, 12:10 AM
Post #20 of 69 (2228 views)
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Re: [aneblett] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

what about don't have one, would like one?


mikkey  (D License)

Jun 14, 2003, 2:17 AM
Post #21 of 69 (2220 views)
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Re: [livenletfly] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

Dont't have one, but if the Skyhook becomes available for my rig I will get it. Skyhook will get reserve out quicker without line twist.


tbrown  (D 6533)

Jun 15, 2003, 12:01 AM
Post #22 of 69 (2140 views)
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Re: [livenletfly] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
i said right in post i do not like rsl's. im a skydiver not a journalist i dont have to be 100% un biased to take a poll. i thought it was pretty fair, 2 answers pro rsl's 2 answers anti rsl's sounds balanced to me. o well cant please everyone.
p.s. "the silent killer" was qouted by bill booth some people claim he knows a thing or two about gear.
anyway blueskies and fun dives

Well hey, blue skies, fun & safe dives to one and all. I have a very high respect for anything Bill Booth has to say, didn't know this was a quote from de man hisself. I'm keeping an open mind on the topic because I'll be putting together my first rig in 22 yrs. However, if you're going to post a poll and a discussion thread on an issue that has a lot of varying opinions, it would be better to keep the line of questioning more neutral and not get so hacked off if someone questions your foregone conclusions.

I once partied with a bunch of Skydive Oregon jumpers at a Grateful Dead show in Eugene. You guys are alright. Hope we'll make a load together one of these days, up there or down here.


Ruffles  (A 42288)

Jun 15, 2003, 2:37 AM
Post #23 of 69 (2135 views)
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Re: [livenletfly] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

I have one, and jump it connected, because I haven't had a cutaway yet. I wonder how many of those no-reserve-pull fatalities were "sure they could pull both handles". I also notice (skydivingfatalities.com) that there are like 35-40 of those no-pull fatals in the last 10 years compared with 2 RSL-related fatals... Interesting.
Blue ones to those of you that jump without them (HPC, CRWs, cameras), but don't say I'm lame for using one; it may save my ass one day.
(<---rookie)


..


(This post was edited by Ruffles on Jun 15, 2003, 2:37 AM)


Clownburner  (B 26842)

Jun 15, 2003, 8:45 AM
Post #24 of 69 (2109 views)
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Re: [tbrown] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

OTOH, bill booth also recently started selling rigs with the skyhook rsl system, and i don't think he'd do that if he thought rsl's were a bad idea.


Genn  (D 22590)

Jun 15, 2003, 9:26 AM
Post #25 of 69 (2100 views)
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Re: [livenletfly] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

No way! It would be a silent killer for me...I love CRW....and after a FF jump, hooking up a stack is just the second half of my skydive.

RSLs & CRW can be very ugly.


skygod7777  (D 24081)

Jun 15, 2003, 2:46 PM
Post #26 of 69 (989 views)
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Re: [livenletfly] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

i don't have one, but the only real reason is i didn't have the money for one, and i like to do some 2 stacks sometimes, so i decided i didn't really need one.

later


Unstable  (D 28930)

Jun 16, 2003, 5:09 AM
Post #27 of 69 (950 views)
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Re: [wmw999] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

        I view an RSL just as Wendy Put it. Stupid Insurance, just like my Cypress. I am human, and I screw up things a lot more than i would like. I have no Camera, NO board, and for anything else i Disconnect the puppy, but otherwise i wouldn't jump w.o one.


Faber

Jun 16, 2003, 8:05 AM
Post #28 of 69 (928 views)
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Re: [tbrown] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I have a very high respect for anything Bill Booth has to say, didn't know this was a quote from de man hisself.
Sorry to hear that a guy whith a name can change your oppinion just like thatUnsureCrazyI have nothing bad on Bill B. what so ever but dont follow his voice just becours of his name do it becours of his knowlegede,im sure he will apriciate that much moreWink

I dont like the silince killer line aswell,i think RSL has safed lots of lifes in the past,just rember to use the rigth gear in the rigth time,if not.. well then your probaly screwed before you know it.

By the way i dont use RSL,didnt do since studentstatus.


champu  (D 28302)

Jun 16, 2003, 5:34 PM
Post #29 of 69 (897 views)
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Re: [livenletfly] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

for more info on the skyhook if you're curious you can look here. I know I hadn't heard of it and was curious.

it looks like it has the bonus "never lose your free-bag" feature as well (provided you don't also lose your main of course)


FallinWoman  (C 32269)

Jun 16, 2003, 10:58 PM
Post #30 of 69 (866 views)
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Re: [livenletfly] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

The only reason that I don't have one is that I was advised by the person from whom I bought my rig that it would make my container ugly.

I wish that I had thought for myself and not trusted that person. I wish I had one. I might decide not to jump it all the time, but I would like to have the option. I feel the benefits far outweigh the risks (unless you are talking CRW or camera, etc.)


aero04  (A 41516)

Jun 16, 2003, 11:06 PM
Post #31 of 69 (861 views)
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Re: [FallinWoman] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

Don't have one, don't plan on it. My left hand works just fine. I did put some thought into getting one when I got my rig, but ultimately I decided against it.

Side note: How the hell would an RSL work on a Racer? One on each riser????


Ron

Jun 17, 2003, 4:16 AM
Post #32 of 69 (847 views)
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Re: [aero04] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Don't have one, don't plan on it. My left hand works just fine. I did put some thought into getting one when I
got my rig, but ultimately I decided against it.

I had a friend of mine...900 jumps and a GREAT flyer.

He bounced with a perfectly good reserve sitting in his rig.
He never managed to get his reserve out after his main was cut away.

He said he did not need one either...His left hand worked just fine.

This is why I tell people to use one till they have had their first cut away....You never know till you ahve had one, and pulled both handles.

Think about it.

Ron


jumpy  (A 8109)

Jun 17, 2003, 5:16 AM
Post #33 of 69 (832 views)
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Re: [aero04] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Don't have one, don't plan on it. My left hand works just fine. I did put some thought into getting one when I got my rig, but ultimately I decided against it.

Side note: How the hell would an RSL work on a Racer? One on each riser????

I've been wondering exactly the same thing... but I got one not attached with my used rig so I'll probably get it hooked up next repack. I'm confident I could do what I have to without one but I feel the pro's outway the Con's.


rigging65  (D 21921)

Jun 17, 2003, 8:20 AM
Post #34 of 69 (816 views)
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Re: [FallinWoman] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

I wish that I had thought for myself and not trusted that person. I wish I had one. I might decide not to jump it all the time, but I would like to have the option.

You can always have one added...they're not expensive.


Gravitymaster  (D License)

Jun 17, 2003, 8:56 AM
Post #35 of 69 (800 views)
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Re: [aero04] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

 
Side note: How the hell would an RSL work on a Racer? One on each riser????
http://www.jumpshack.com/...2&SortBy=TITLE_A

Like this.


fundgh  (C 34140)

Jun 17, 2003, 8:57 AM
Post #36 of 69 (802 views)
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Re: [rigging65] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

Have one, use it, and haven't heard any reason why I should not use it as a young skydiver. What are the situations that would require me to unhook it prior to cutaway (if there was time)?


rigging65  (D 21921)

Jun 17, 2003, 10:28 AM
Post #37 of 69 (790 views)
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Re: [fundgh] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

In an ideal world, you'd probably want to unhook it before cutting away from a canopy collision to be sure you got clear and away from the mess before opening your reserve. Of course, canopy collisions usually happen low, so it could be a double edged sword...not to mention you're not going to have much time.

Basically, the only time you'd want it off is when you needed time/distance/assured clearance from your current position...and there aren't that many of those, outside of CReW and Camera.


dragon2  (D 101989)

Jun 17, 2003, 11:09 AM
Post #38 of 69 (783 views)
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Re: [fundgh] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Have one, use it, and haven't heard any reason why I should not use it as a young skydiver. What are the situations that would require me to unhook it prior to cutaway (if there was time)?

If you have time, unhook it if you have 2 out and you need to cutaway (because of a downplane). Side note, I didn't, cutaway went just fine anyway, but I didn't know to unhook my RSL back then.

Before you jump, disconnect it if you're going to jump a camera (still not really sure about that one myself but seems the consensus), if you're going to do (intentional Tongue) CReW, or if you'll be jumping a board. Or if you're going to jump a HP napkin Tongue.


Ron

Jun 17, 2003, 11:20 AM
Post #39 of 69 (779 views)
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Re: [dragon2] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

The only time I have heard of a downplane from a double out was with a racer, and the double RSL's.

Most other sport rigs there is no chance of an RSL causing a downplane.

At least none I can think of.
Anyone care to share one?

Ron


sundevil777  (D License)

Jun 17, 2003, 11:24 AM
Post #40 of 69 (779 views)
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Re: [fundgh] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

One more reason that is important for the ego, wallet, and your ability to jump again quickly:

Disconnect it anytime you are jumping in high winds and might need to chop to not be dragged across the ground. It is embarrasing enough to need to chop without having it pop your spare.


dragon2  (D 101989)

Jun 17, 2003, 11:38 AM
Post #41 of 69 (772 views)
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Re: [Ron] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
The only time I have heard of a downplane from a double out was with a racer, and the double RSL's.

Most other sport rigs there is no chance of an RSL causing a downplane.

At least none I can think of.
Anyone care to share one?

Ron

Nah don't mean it CAUSES a downplane. Only I happened to have a downplane, so I had to cut away. The RSL is a potential snag point/hangup point for the main to stay stuck on, which you don't want. Anyway I didn't disconnect it, and the main flew away just fine.


Ron

Jun 17, 2003, 11:47 AM
Post #42 of 69 (767 views)
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Re: [dragon2] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
The
RSL is a potential snag point/hangup point for the main to stay stuck on, which you don't want.

This is what I don't get.

An RSL I thought has very little chance of snagging.

Anyone?


Faber

Jun 17, 2003, 11:49 AM
Post #43 of 69 (767 views)
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Re: [Ron] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Most other sport rigs there is no chance of an RSL causing a downplane.

2 ramair canopies out means chance for downplane,the RSL has nothing to do whith a downplane at all.
You will have no problem cutting a main were theres a RSL atached as you have the reserve out aswell(ie. the RSL wont make it worse).
You could get a downplane after a ADD fire at the same time you pulled your main.


betzilla  (D 23089)

Jun 18, 2003, 1:19 PM
Post #44 of 69 (728 views)
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Re: [livenletfly] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

I just ordered a SkyHook RSL for my Micron. I wouldn't use a regular RSL, for all the reasons you hear from other jumpers. But the SkyHook negates those reasons, and it still can be disconnected on a jump by jump basis.

I'm no the type to get disoriented or lose track of altitude in a malfunction, and in my 520 jumps, I've only had linetwists maybe 20 times, but if a SkyHook will give me a greater chance of living through an ugly situation, I want it.


skydiven4fun  (D 25506)

Jun 18, 2003, 7:13 PM
Post #45 of 69 (705 views)
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Re: [livenletfly] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

I had one on my first rig, But do not have one on either of the 2 rigs I own now, I have had 4 cutaways and have lived through them all without one so why change now, But I will admit that the last cutaway that I had got pretty scary, I had a hard time getting my cut away handle to release, It took me 3 tries, I finaly got it out at about 1200 feet. and believe me it was not long after that that my reserve was flying. But it did make me think. I had bought a new rig and the pillow was thinner than the one on my Mirage, It was harder to grip, Since then I have replaced that pillow with a thicker one.


GrumpySmurf  (C 32988)

Jun 18, 2003, 7:34 PM
Post #46 of 69 (697 views)
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Re: [livenletfly] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

*kick*
Stay dead you damn horse.
*kick* *kick*

It's always this time of year I get a sense of deja vu.


stilettodude  (D 21881)

Jun 18, 2003, 7:39 PM
Post #47 of 69 (697 views)
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Re: [livenletfly] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

Had one on my first and second rigs but don't have one on current rig. I don't have anything against them but if you jump a HP canopy you could end up in a spin on your back which would not be a good position to have your reserve fired.
Philip Guy D-21881


juanesky  (C 33620)

Jun 18, 2003, 7:42 PM
Post #48 of 69 (694 views)
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Re: [bivar] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
A friend of mine would still be alive if he had one. Frown

Would you mind telling us what happened? I am trying to learn on the subject, and have been considering starting video when I get 40 or so more jumps.

Some people just don't like them, but being conservative, I think I will need one for a long while

Sorry to hear about your loss, and although it is sad, please be kind and share the experience.

Take care and blue skies !


Premier Tonto  (D 515)
Moderator
Jun 19, 2003, 2:40 AM
Post #49 of 69 (672 views)
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Re: [mofo554] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

No. The people in 3 don't know about 4 cos it's silent. They're not all Collin, you know.

t


nicknitro71  (D 26704)

Jun 19, 2003, 6:12 AM
Post #50 of 69 (661 views)
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Re: [livenletfly] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

Every few weeks or so it seems there is a need to either bitch about the AAD or the RSL. It's kind of the shit it's happening in the middle east. It has been there since I can remember and it will be there long after I will be gone.

You have one good, you don't good too. There is tons of stuff writter on RSL from experts with stats backing it up.


juanesky  (C 33620)

Jun 19, 2003, 11:31 AM
Post #51 of 69 (914 views)
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Re: [nicknitro71] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
It's kind of the shit it's happening in the middle east. It has been there since I can remember and it will be there long after I will be gone.

I am doing something about this now, I joined the Navy.......

Blues skies!


Jethers203  (D 24352)

Jun 19, 2003, 1:17 PM
Post #52 of 69 (899 views)
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Re: [livenletfly] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

What's up everyone? I chose Don't have one, don't want one. The reason is because I live in the southwest desert and dustdevils are everywhere on hot summer days. There have been times where they have come out of nowhere and have done some pretty screwy things with are canopies.

One time, a dustdevil hit one of our jumpers as she was landing and it picked her up 40 feet in the air and threw her like a ragdoll. Luckily she only broke her back and femur.

Anyway, standard procedure at our DZ when encountering a dustdevil on the ground after landing is to cutaway. With an RSL, you would get pretty messed up and have to pay for a reserve repack if you didn't get too hurt or killed.

John D-24352


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Jun 19, 2003, 1:23 PM
Post #53 of 69 (896 views)
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Re: [Jethers203] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

>Anyway, standard procedure at our DZ when encountering a dustdevil
> on the ground after landing is to cutaway. With an RSL, you would
> get pretty messed up and have to pay for a reserve repack if you
> didn't get too hurt or killed.

This is a myth. Unless you are dealing with 50MPH winds, cutting away with an RSL attached will cause your reserve PC to deploy and perhaps your freebag to fall out - your reserve won't deploy. You can try this yourself if you want. On a really windy day, when no one is jumping, go out, stand in a field in the windiest place, and throw your PC. See if your main deploys. (You can try with your reserve as well but that's more expensive.)


Jethers203  (D 24352)

Jun 22, 2003, 11:05 AM
Post #54 of 69 (859 views)
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Re: [billvon] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

Bill,

The whole point of cutting away the main if there is a dustdevil is so you don't get hurt when the thing picks you up. You can either get picked back up into the air or dragged. Neither of which would be fun.

The reason not a lot of people at our DZ use RSL's is because we don't want to have to get our freebags and reserves put back in and waste $35.00.

I don't think we are being too wrong to do this.


Hooknswoop  (D License)

Jun 22, 2003, 11:19 AM
Post #55 of 69 (857 views)
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Re: [Jethers203] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
The reason not a lot of people at our DZ use RSL's is because we don't want to have to get our freebags and reserves put back in and waste $35.00.

I don't think we are being too wrong to do this.

Just disconnect it under canopy..........

Hook


Jimbo  (D License)

Jun 22, 2003, 11:30 AM
Post #56 of 69 (855 views)
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Re: [Jethers203] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

 
Quote:
The whole point of cutting away the main if there is a dustdevil is so you don't get hurt when the thing picks you up. You can either get picked back up into the air or dragged. Neither of which would be fun.

I don't think that Bill said it was a bad idea to cut away your main in the event of a dust devil, I think what he said is that it's myth that your reserve will inflate after an RSL enabled cutaway on the ground, even near a dust devil.

Quote:
The reason not a lot of people at our DZ use RSL's is because we don't want to have to get our freebags and reserves put back in and waste $35.00.

I don't think we are being too wrong to do this.

I'm not going to get into the should I use an RSL or shouldn't I debate, but I do have to point out that this is a decision that should be influenced entirely by safety, not by finances. Your decision to skip the RSL because it might cost you $35.00 to have your rig put back together... well, I guess that's your decision.

-
Jim


(This post was edited by Jimbo on Jun 22, 2003, 4:39 PM)


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Jun 23, 2003, 11:48 AM
Post #57 of 69 (803 views)
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Re: [Jethers203] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

>The whole point of cutting away the main if there is a dustdevil is so
> you don't get hurt when the thing picks you up. You can either get
> picked back up into the air or dragged. Neither of which would be fun.

For that to happen, the reserve has to inflate. A dust devil generally won't do that. Like I said, take the windiest day of the year, go outside and throw your pilot chute. See if your main inflates.

>The reason not a lot of people at our DZ use RSL's is because we
> don't want to have to get our freebags and reserves put back in and
> waste $35.00.

That might be a good reason if it happens a lot, but I think I'd be afraid to jump at a DZ where I had to regularly cut my canopy away after landing. A dust devil will kill you ten times as dead if you run into it in the air as opposed to on the ground.

In any case, if that's the only reason to not have an RSL - disconnect it before you land.


Jethers203  (D 24352)

Jun 25, 2003, 3:50 PM
Post #58 of 69 (752 views)
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Re: [billvon] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

This thread asked if we use RSL's. I said no, and gave my reasons why. My whole reason for not using one is not because I am worried about paying for a reserve repack, I just said that jokingly as a side note.

As far as:
Quote:
take the windiest day of the year, go outside and throw your pilot chute. See if your main inflates.

No shit!!! But, the topic is RSL's and reserves inflating. Mains don't have spring loaded pilot chutes.

Quote:
A dust devil will kill you ten times as dead if you run into it in the air as opposed to on the ground.
Quote:

So, you still can get hurt or killed anyway!!!!!

Quote:
In any case, if that's the only reason to not have an RSL - disconnect it before you land.


Yeah, you can do that if you act fast enough!!!!

Anyway, enough with the pissing contest. I said what I said and I had some valid reasons for saying these things.

Besides, I like to control what happens to my chute. I can pull my own damn reserve handle. I wouldn't mind the double freefall either. Now that was a joke, I had to say that so I don't get jumped on.

John D-24352


(This post was edited by Jethers203 on Jun 25, 2003, 3:53 PM)


rigging65  (D 21921)

Jun 25, 2003, 5:35 PM
Post #59 of 69 (739 views)
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Re: [Jethers203] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Besides, I like to control what happens to my chute. I can pull my own damn reserve handle.

Yeah, about a dozen people a year say that...and then they don't say anything else...ever.


sundevil777  (D License)

Jun 25, 2003, 6:10 PM
Post #60 of 69 (732 views)
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Re: [Jethers203] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't use one.

I have pulled my own spare 3 times, high speed, low speed and total mal.

However, in my opinion, the choice to not use an RSL for the ordinary (not CRW or camera) jumper is not justified by a logical examination of the risks. Even for those jumping high performance canopies.

In my opinion, those of us who choose not to use an RSL should not pretend that our position is totally rational. Even a Cypres, which is a countermeasure for the no reserve pull when a cutaway is high enough, does not help like an RSL for the low cutaway scenario (it doesn't matter why you might cutaway low - it does happen).

So, to summarize: some of our decisions are not completely logical (meaning it is somewhat emotional), and we should just accept that people will weigh the relative risks differently.

What is really important is not trying too hard to convince new jumpers to come to the same conclusion.


Premier wmw999  (D 6296)

Jun 25, 2003, 8:35 PM
Post #61 of 69 (717 views)
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Re: [sundevil777] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
What is really important is not trying too hard to convince new jumpers to come to the same conclusion.
Well put

There's a huge difference between convincing someone of something, and providing them with plenty of information so they can make a decision.

When I got my current rig, I took the RSL off first thing, due to lots of old prejudices (I go back a ways). But it's on now. I've proven I can pull my own reserve 7 times; 4 of them were even after a cutaway.

I wear my seat belt, too. Seat belts have hurt, but they've helped a whole lot more people. I guess that's how I feel about RSLs now, too. Since I don't jump camera or CRW (and if I were to do CRW I can always disconnect it), it's much more likely to help. It's not a pride thing -- no one but me has to know I can pull my own reserve.

Wendy W.


(This post was edited by wmw999 on Jun 25, 2003, 8:36 PM)


Premier skybytch  (D License)

Jun 25, 2003, 8:38 PM
Post #62 of 69 (713 views)
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Re: [Jethers203] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
No shit!!! But, the topic is RSL's and reserves inflating. Mains don't have spring loaded pilot chutes.
I've pulled a reserve handle on the ground outside on a very windy day. The p/c fired, the freebag was pulled out of the container and fell to the ground.


rigging65  (D 21921)

Jun 26, 2003, 10:30 AM
Post #63 of 69 (682 views)
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Re: [sundevil777] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I don't use one.

I have pulled my own spare 3 times, high speed, low speed and total mal.

However, in my opinion, the choice to not use an RSL for the ordinary (not CRW or camera) jumper is not justified by a logical examination of the risks. Even for those jumping high performance canopies.

In my opinion, those of us who choose not to use an RSL should not pretend that our position is totally rational. Even a Cypres, which is a countermeasure for the no reserve pull when a cutaway is high enough, does not help like an RSL for the low cutaway scenario (it doesn't matter why you might cutaway low - it does happen).

So, to summarize: some of our decisions are not completely logical (meaning it is somewhat emotional), and we should just accept that people will weigh the relative risks differently.

What is really important is not trying too hard to convince new jumpers to come to the same conclusion.

Thank you! Finally someone has the balls to stand up for their convictions, even though they know their argument isn't supported by the facts. Just like Sundevil said, you're free to make your own choices, but the hard facts show jumping with and RSL is safer than jumping without one.

Don't jump with one if you don't want to, but at least have the trust in your own choice to say "I'm doing it because I want to, even though I know it's not the safest way to jump."

This sport is still about freedom to choose, so choose as you will. But make sure you've got all the facts before you do so!

Good on you Sundevil! Smile


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Jun 26, 2003, 10:43 AM
Post #64 of 69 (678 views)
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Re: [Jethers203] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

>No shit!!! But, the topic is RSL's and reserves inflating. Mains don't
> have spring loaded pilot chutes.

Correct. That means reserve PC's are a lot more likely to fall to the ground and stay there; they are heavier. "I don't want my reserve to inflate if I cut away after landing in high winds" is not a reasonable concern. "I don't want my reserve to have to be reclosed" is reasonable, but it's a convenience rather than a safety concern.


SkydiverRick  (D 13360)

Jun 26, 2003, 10:47 PM
Post #65 of 69 (648 views)
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Re: [livenletfly] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't see the need to use a RSL myself.I've pulled a few reserve handles in the last 22+ years, so I feel confident that I'll pull it the next time. I feel that my cypres is all of the "stupid insurance" that I need. I'm not anti-RSL, it may be appropriate for someone under different circumstances.
Rick


alan  (D 17868)

Jun 27, 2003, 10:40 AM
Post #66 of 69 (625 views)
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Re: [Jethers203] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Anyway, enough with the pissing contest. I said what I said and I had some valid reasons for saying these things.

Actually, the point of the pissing contest is to get the point across to you that you did NOT present VALID reasons. You bought into an old myth. Kinda like the old "you have to hook it to get decent landings".


Iflyme  (B 4421)

Jun 27, 2003, 1:40 PM
Post #67 of 69 (610 views)
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Re: [livenletfly] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm with Wendy. I have an RSL. I have not had a cutaway yet. I'll keep the RSL in place, except on those jumps with the CReW flyers.


Jethers203  (D 24352)

Jun 27, 2003, 3:17 PM
Post #68 of 69 (595 views)
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Re: [billvon] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm through!!!!!

I said what I said and had my own reasons for doing so. I know the reserve will not fully inflate. The reason I don't use RSL's is because like Bill said,
Quote:
"I don't want my reserve to have to be reclosed"
if something minor happens.

John D-24352


sprtdth  (D 4730)

Jun 29, 2003, 11:40 PM
Post #69 of 69 (564 views)
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Re: [livenletfly] R.S.L'S do you use one? [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes I have a RSL on my rigs. They are disconnected. I have had about 15 cut aways since I started jumping in 1972. The only reason I have them now is to use as a "last hope rope" as on the old Crossbows. And my Crossbow has a Stevens (early RSL) I have that disconnected too.



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