Forums: Skydiving: Incidents:
Fatality - Sebastian May 25, 2014

 

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SoCalJumper  (F 77777)

May 25, 2014, 7:59 PM
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Fatality - Sebastian May 25, 2014 Can't Post

I'm hearing there may have been a fatal incident.


ludikris  (D 41466)

May 25, 2014, 8:45 PM
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Re: [SoCalJumper] Fatality - Sebastian May 25, 2014 [In reply to] Can't Post

Yeah unfortunately, Jeff Nebelkopf. :(

See here:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/633033066771423/


(This post was edited by ludikris on May 25, 2014, 9:22 PM)




faulk04  (D 32457)

May 25, 2014, 9:56 PM
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Re: [voilsb] Fatality - Sebastian May 25, 2014 [In reply to] Can't Post

from the fb page

high speed malfunction on his main, which eventually opened into a hard spin. The Cypress fired. The reserve bridal/pilot chute entangled with the risers and his head/neck at a very low altitude preventing him from potentially correcting the situation.
Jeff spun into the ground at a high rate of speed. He was alive at the scene and did not make it.


FlyBear

May 26, 2014, 2:43 AM
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Re: [faulk04] Fatality - Sebastian May 25, 2014 [In reply to] Can't Post

Do you know whether it was wingsuit jump?


humanflite  (D 99999)

May 26, 2014, 3:04 AM
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Re: [FlyBear] Fatality - Sebastian May 25, 2014 [In reply to] Can't Post

Sad news.
Anyone know the canopy that Jeff was jumping?
BSBD


IronEddie42  (D 32850)

May 26, 2014, 7:18 AM
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Re: [humanflite] Fatality - Sebastian May 25, 2014 [In reply to] Can't Post

It was a wingsuit jump. No sort of collision or anything. He was jumping his Spectre 135 canopy.


nutellaontoast  (A 55700)

May 26, 2014, 8:15 AM
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Re: [faulk04] Fatality - Sebastian May 25, 2014 [In reply to] Can't Post

Was it a low pull or a delayed reaction to the malfunctioning main?


tbrown  (D 6533)

May 26, 2014, 8:20 AM
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Re: [faulk04] Fatality - Sebastian May 25, 2014 [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
faulk04 wrote:
from the fb page

high speed malfunction on his main, which eventually opened into a hard spin. The Cypress fired. The reserve bridal/pilot chute entangled with the risers and his head/neck at a very low altitude preventing him from potentially correcting the situation.
Jeff spun into the ground at a high rate of speed. He was alive at the scene and did not make it.

Any idea why no cutaway ? So sorry to hear this, condolences to family and friends.


bodypilot1  (D 16037)

May 26, 2014, 10:21 AM
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Re: [IronEddie42] Fatality - Sebastian May 25, 2014 [In reply to] Can't Post

Were his cutaway and reserve handles fully zipped up inside his wingsuit?


rbignon  (D 237927)

May 26, 2014, 1:02 PM
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Re: [bodypilot1] Fatality - Sebastian May 25, 2014 [In reply to] Can't Post

He was Jumping a Final version of his new intermediate wing suit with both handles outside the suit. The Issue was a reserve bridal wrapped around his main with severe line twists. Both handles accessible and the main was not cut away when we recovered him on the ground.


hossein

May 26, 2014, 1:20 PM
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Re: [rbignon] Fatality - Sebastian May 25, 2014 [In reply to] Can't Post

rbignon wrote:
He was Jumping a Final version of his new intermediate wing suit with both handles outside the suit. The Issue was a reserve bridal wrapped around his main with severe line twists. Both handles accessible and the main was not cut away when we recovered him on the ground.

Any ideas at what height he pulled?
Possible flat spin ?
Tried to get out of it but just couldnt so pulled as last resort to stop the spin, but by then had blacked out ?


DocPop  (C License)

May 26, 2014, 1:27 PM
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Re: [rbignon] Fatality - Sebastian May 25, 2014 [In reply to] Can't Post

rbignon wrote:
The Issue was a reserve bridal wrapped around his main with severe line twists.

If this was indeed an AAD fire, that was not the first issue. The first issue was not dealing with the mal and getting to AAD firing height.

Now, as has been suggested, perhaps there was a mechanical/health reason why that happened. Finding that our would be a key part of this investigation.


BMFin

May 26, 2014, 1:39 PM
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Re: [DocPop] Fatality - Sebastian May 25, 2014 [In reply to] Can't Post

Is it possible to achieve 78mph speed (cypres fire) under a spinning spectre 135?


LyraM45  (B 26378)

May 26, 2014, 4:31 PM
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Re: [BMFin] Fatality - Sebastian May 25, 2014 [In reply to] Can't Post

BMFin wrote:
Is it possible to achieve 78mph speed (cypres fire) under a spinning spectre 135?

You'd be surprised how fast you can spin up on that canopy, especially if it's loaded. I am only 1:1 on my spectre 135 and the one chop I had on it is when it spun me up on my back after I unstowed one brake but the other brake line was essentially knotted in the cat eye and couldn't be unstowed. One of the take aways I had from that chop was my docile canopy even at 1:1 could spin up much faster and harder than I thought!


Sky_doggy  (C 41295)

May 26, 2014, 7:18 PM
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Re: [rbignon] Fatality - Sebastian May 25, 2014 [In reply to] Can't Post

rbignon wrote:
Both handles accessible and the main was not cut away when we recovered him on the ground.

I am really sorry to read about this. Jeff was a big name in the WS community and by all accounts gave a lot back to the sport. My condolences to Sita, family and friends.
______________

I do have a question, does anyone know if he had unzipped his arms out of his suit?


lurch  (D 27583)

May 26, 2014, 8:01 PM
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Re: [hossein] Fatality - Sebastian May 25, 2014 [In reply to] Can't Post

No. At that level of flight ability there is essentially no such thing as a flat spin. If the suit catches you by surprise you're out of it in half a twist. To a bird like Jeff especially there is no such animal. The last time I flew with him we spent half the flight doing repeated scary rolls just for the fun of it on the way back to the dz. There is no way in hell a bird who can reorient and redock regardless of rotation so fast we fit 4 separate scaryroll maneuvers into half a jump got into a wingsuit spin he couldn't control.


BMFin

May 26, 2014, 9:16 PM
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Re: [LyraM45] Fatality - Sebastian May 25, 2014 [In reply to] Can't Post

LyraM45 wrote:
BMFin wrote:
Is it possible to achieve 78mph speed (cypres fire) under a spinning spectre 135?

You'd be surprised how fast you can spin up on that canopy, especially if it's loaded.

Well how fast is it then?


base698  (D 23456)

May 26, 2014, 9:41 PM
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Re: [BMFin] Fatality - Sebastian May 25, 2014 [In reply to] Can't Post

I jumped a 120 spectre loaded at 2:1 for 100 jumps and the max descent I remember getting was 45 mph. I never made my pro track fire on landing like on a velo or the like.


shveddy  (D 30995)

May 26, 2014, 10:00 PM
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Re: [base698] Fatality - Sebastian May 25, 2014 [In reply to] Can't Post

Sounds more likely that the rode the high speed mal down low enough to set off his AAD and then cleared the mal, got line twists and bad the reserve pop out at around the same time.


vesatoro  (D 2241)

May 26, 2014, 11:38 PM
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Re: [LyraM45] Fatality - Sebastian May 25, 2014 [In reply to] Can't Post

The turn rate of the spin does not tell too much about the vertical speed created. Some canopies spin at fast rate, some with slower. I have chopped two times an FX loaded 2.5 with a wingsuit, the turn rate was not terribly fast, but the altitude burning was...


Kirkk0herra

May 27, 2014, 3:01 AM
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Re: [vesatoro] Fatality - Sebastian May 25, 2014 [In reply to] Can't Post

To a complete newbie it sounds like cutting away immediately instead of mid-air rigging could have saved him?


maretus  (D License)

May 27, 2014, 4:15 AM
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Re: [rbignon] Fatality - Sebastian May 25, 2014 [In reply to] Can't Post

rbignon wrote:
He was Jumping a Final version of his new intermediate wing suit with both handles outside the suit. The Issue was a reserve bridal wrapped around his main with severe line twists. Both handles accessible and the main was not cut away when we recovered him on the ground.

So am I understanding this correctly that a highly experienced (several thousands of skydives) and skilled jumper that Jeff was
- deployed in normal opening altitude (Im guessing around 3k ft here)
- experienced a high speed mal (dont know which kind)
- had unobstructed access to handles but didnt use them
- didnt cut away from a releasable mal (no entanglements or other issues restraining him from cutting away) but rode the mal all the way to Cypres altitude
- Cypres fired the reserve which then entangled with the main and resulted in non survivable landing

If this is the case, Im seriously astonished. For me this just sounds bizarre that a person of his ability would not cut away from such a basic situation which is taught how to deal with in your basic training.

I only met Jeff couple of times and only did one base jump with him but he felt like a genuinely nice person with out of this world flying abilities. Lots of strength to his family and friends, fly free bro.


(This post was edited by maretus on May 27, 2014, 4:17 AM)


Faicon9493  (D 9493)

May 27, 2014, 4:47 AM
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Re: [ludikris] Fatality - Sebastian May 25, 2014 [In reply to] Can't Post

Was he jumping with a camera that may have revealed anything to investigators?


JeffCa  (C License)

May 27, 2014, 4:51 AM
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Re: [maretus] Fatality - Sebastian May 25, 2014 [In reply to] Can't Post

maretus wrote:
rbignon wrote:
He was Jumping a Final version of his new intermediate wing suit with both handles outside the suit. The Issue was a reserve bridal wrapped around his main with severe line twists. Both handles accessible and the main was not cut away when we recovered him on the ground.

So am I understanding this correctly that a highly experienced (several thousands of skydives) and skilled jumper that Jeff was
- deployed in normal opening altitude (Im guessing around 3k ft here)
- experienced a high speed mal (dont know which kind)
- had unobstructed access to handles but didnt use them
- didnt cut away from a releasable mal (no entanglements or other issues restraining him from cutting away) but rode the mal all the way to Cypres altitude
- Cypres fired the reserve which then entangled with the main and resulted in non survivable landing

If this is the case, Im seriously astonished. For me this just sounds bizarre that a person of his ability would not cut away from such a basic situation which is taught how to deal with in your basic training.

As you are most definitely aware, among many other possible factors that could have contributed, you'd need to consider how many cutaways a person has had. Just because somebody has lots of jumps, doesn't mean they're a cutaway expert. My AFF instructor has zero cutaways in a total of over 7,000 jumps. I've heard of others with multiple cutaways in their first 100 jumps.

So does anybody happen to know how experienced and current he was on his cutaways? This would be a better question for you to ask.

And you probably also know that this seems to be a trend. There have been a lot of very experienced jumpers fighting mals to the ground recently. It seems like the most common way that we're losing our most experienced personnel, and it makes me sad and angry.


(This post was edited by JeffCa on May 27, 2014, 4:53 AM)


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