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Rumor of someone throwing a record attempt. (Intentional screwing up to keep an existing record in tact)

 

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shropshire  (C License)

Nov 6, 2013, 1:30 PM
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Re: [piisfish] Rumor of someone throwing a record attempt. (Intentional screwing up to keep an existing record in tact) [In reply to] Can't Post

piisfish wrote:
would have been easier to just take a wrong grip Angelic

What? and not get on youtube or have a hole dizzy thread all to yourself ... [pah]


MisterCrash  (D License)

Nov 6, 2013, 3:52 PM
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Re: [shropshire] Rumor of someone throwing a record attempt. (Intentional screwing up to keep an existing record in tact) [In reply to] Can't Post

I do think Simon made a bad decision. If you don't agree with a jump you should just leave the group. This triggers those peoples minds into thinking about your decision.

Simon's course of action triggered resentment from a lot of people. Instead of calling for banning him I think he had a valid point thinking his record was being stolen. As mentioned in one of the first posts 51% needs to have a USPA license to make a state record regardless of where you live or jump. That sounds like a bad rule to me. Both national and international records have nationality included in the rules. Why doesn't a state record have any geography limits in the rules?

This allows for people from another state to actually steal someones record. I'm not saying that something like that would easily happen but it could.

Another point I think rules should take into account is the announcement time. 10 minutes does not suffice in my opinion. I think everyone should be given the chance to practice and try to join a record attempt. Just because your dropzone has the potential to break a record that day can also make other people feel like they have been excluded from the chance.

If the bigway event had stated to do record attempts upon announcing the event I think Simon might not have taken such a drastic measure.

I'm more afraid of all the hatred I see appearing towards Simon. Yes he made a mistake and he did endanger people. While I do think some kind of measures should be taken by the appropriate people I also think more people should think about the reason that drove him to it.

You should always follow the rules in skydiving. But these rules were invented by people who actually thought about it. I don't see much people here thinking, but shouting.

If changing these record rules could positively influence the motivation of jumpers it would have a bigger effect on safety all round than just banning Simon or shouting at him.

PS: If Simon would have pulled it off cleanly I'd bet 90% of the people would be cheering for him now. Too bad for him, he didn't.


(This post was edited by MisterCrash on Nov 6, 2013, 3:56 PM)


grue  (D License)

Nov 6, 2013, 4:00 PM
Post #78 of 229 (5938 views)
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Re: [MisterCrash] Rumor of someone throwing a record attempt. (Intentional screwing up to keep an existing record in tact) [In reply to] Can't Post

MisterCrash wrote:
s mentioned in one of the first posts 51% needs to have a USPA license to make a state record regardless of where you live or jump. That sounds like a bad rule to me. Both national and international records have nationality included in the rules. Why doesn't a state record have any geography limits in the rules?

Logistical Nightmare. I used to have an Iowa license, go to school in South Dakota, and jump across the border in Minnesota. Which state would I be allowed to get a record in? All three addresses were within a circle less than 100mi in diameter.


(This post was edited by grue on Nov 6, 2013, 4:01 PM)


ryoder  (D 6663)

Nov 6, 2013, 4:09 PM
Post #79 of 229 (5900 views)
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Re: [jakee] Rumor of someone throwing a record attempt. (Intentional screwing up to keep an existing record in tact) [In reply to] Can't Post

jakee wrote:
In reply to:
I just feel that it should have been announced a bit more than 10 minutes before

Dude,...

Pssst!
The correct salutation would be "dudette".Wink


chuckakers  (D 10855)

Nov 6, 2013, 4:09 PM
Post #80 of 229 (5889 views)
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Re: [Cheach] Rumor of someone throwing a record attempt. (Intentional screwing up to keep an existing record in tact) [In reply to] Can't Post

Cheach wrote:
Sigh. Such is the need for drama, that people quite literally put words in my mouth.

1- I have never ever states that Bones was correct in what he did. I do not believe that at all.

2- The first thing I did when I saw the picture was congratulate everyone. It took amazing skill to do what they did. Absolutely NO argument there.

3- I just feel that it should have been announced a bit more than 10 minutes before and I wish more talented Texas jumpers would have been invited. But those people don't travel near as much, and therefore don't know the organizers, who in turn didn't invite them. Both the organizers from September were at the event. Brandon being the main organizer. I DO feel it would have been respectful for the organizers of the event to talk with him first. Do I think they "cheated"? No. But it still doesn't make me any less upset that it went down like that.

4- oh yah. That's why I quit posting on this forum. Drama. I am pretty sure some of y'all literally get off on it.

Funny that you complain about the drama while participating in it.

Do you know how it all really went down? Could it be that the record was announced 10 minutes before the load because they made the decision to give it a try 15 minutes before the load? Could it be that the idea to try for a record wasn't even hatched until the group was already organized? Could it be that the organizers were simply working with the same people they had already been working with and never even thought of adding anyone to a last-minute impromptu attempt?

You mention that some folks don't travel much and may not have been invited because the organizers didn't know them. What would you like the organizers to do about that, invite jumpers whose skills they aren't familiar with on a difficult state record attempt? Or would you prefer the organizers travel around the country at their expense to meet the folks who CHOOSE not to travel?

Sorry, it doesn't work that way. I've been skydiving for nearly 30 years and probably have the skills needed for the high-profile big-ways that I see blazing the pages of Parachutist, but guess what? My lifestyle doesn't allow me much time to travel so the vast majority of the big shot organizers probably know more about Truman Sparks and Gardner Barnes than about me. You think I'll be on any of those shit-hot skydives anytime soon? In this sport we get out what we put in. If your friends don't want to travel so be it, but don't complain when their lack of sacrifice gets them overlooked on top-shelf jumps.

It sounds like you just want what you want for your friends without respect to what it takes to get there. My guess is if your friends would communicate with the organizers you're referring to they would be invited to appropriate events where they could put their skills on display. THAT's how it works.

And finally, you seem to think there was something inherently wrong about the way things happened. I don't. These were jumpers who paid their own way to come to Texas, paid their own way onto the planes, paid for their own accommodations, food, rental cars, gas, and maybe even some whiskey, blow, and hookers. How is it that those folks should feel obligated to seek the approval of ANYONE before any particular skydive, record attempt or not? These were paying customers doing their thing and they don't owe anyone anything.

I do think some of them are owed an apology, though. Texas skydiving is better than this petty crap.

5 left and cut.


hookitt  (D License)

Nov 6, 2013, 4:17 PM
Post #81 of 229 (5898 views)
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Re: [MisterCrash] Rumor of someone throwing a record attempt. (Intentional screwing up to keep an existing record in tact) [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm a firm believer in leaving the ball and going home, rather than smashing it against someone's face so they can't play.

Say your peace. Can always get the ball back later.


airtwardo  (D License)

Nov 6, 2013, 4:56 PM
Post #82 of 229 (5749 views)
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Re: [MisterCrash] Rumor of someone throwing a record attempt. (Intentional screwing up to keep an existing record in tact) [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
This allows for people from another state to actually steal someones record. I'm not saying that something like that would easily happen but it could.

Like I said ~ It has happened...but so what?

Don't agree with the term 'stealing' the record...you get the record or you don't. It's a sport that has ALWAYS asked - what have you done LATELY! Laugh

~whatever sets the bar higher pushes those trying to reach it - that's a GOOD thing!




~~~And just HOW does one 'pull off cleanly' screwing others trusting their dives & lives to you? Just curious...


(This post was edited by airtwardo on Nov 6, 2013, 5:03 PM)


MalcolmR

Nov 6, 2013, 5:10 PM
Post #83 of 229 (5679 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] Rumor of someone throwing a record attempt. (Intentional screwing up to keep an existing record in tact) [In reply to] Can't Post

Simon's Life Philosophy from Parachutist: I try to jump more and philosophize less, but Bill and Ted said it best: Be excellent to each other; and party on, dudes!

Wow.

http://parachutistonline.com/.../simon-bones-d-28573


(This post was edited by cpoxon on Nov 7, 2013, 12:37 AM)


labrys  (D 29848)

Nov 6, 2013, 5:11 PM
Post #84 of 229 (5676 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] Rumor of someone throwing a record attempt. (Intentional screwing up to keep an existing record in tact) [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm pretty amused by this Texas state record / Simon issue. I've only been jumping for 11-12 years now and so I wasn't around when free-flying really picked up, but I *do* remember, when I first started, seeing and hearing people attracted to FF because there wasn't any of the drama associated with RW and peer pressure and getting the right grip or turning the right point.

I really did tell my friends that it would only take a little time.


williammonk

Nov 6, 2013, 5:17 PM
Post #85 of 229 (5649 views)
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Re: [jakee] Rumor of someone throwing a record attempt. (Intentional screwing up to keep an existing record in tact) [In reply to] Can't Post

jakee wrote:
In reply to:
I just feel that it should have been announced a bit more than 10 minutes before

Dude, it sounds like they didn't know they were going to try for it until 10 minutes before. What do you want the organisers to do - look around the packing hall and go "Well it looks like we've got the talent here to put a really cool dive together but we probably shouldn't because some other guys went to some training camps two months ago"? Makes no sense.

(BTW - the only people who use the word 'drama' are the people who revel in it. If you stop looking for a way to take offense at what people are doing or saying you wouldn't have any.)

Exactly what I was thinking.


nutellaontoast  (A 55700)

Nov 6, 2013, 5:21 PM
Post #86 of 229 (5618 views)
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Re: [MisterCrash] Rumor of someone throwing a record attempt. (Intentional screwing up to keep an existing record in tact) [In reply to] Can't Post

MisterCrash wrote:
I'm more afraid of all the hatred I see appearing towards Simon. Yes he made a mistake and he did endanger people. While I do think some kind of measures should be taken by the appropriate people I also think more people should think about the reason that drove him to it.
I think all thought to fairly meaningless records in a niche sport should be completely thrown out in the face of someone endangering dozens of lives. YMMV.


jakee  (C License)

Nov 6, 2013, 5:25 PM
Post #87 of 229 (5585 views)
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Re: [MisterCrash] Rumor of someone throwing a record attempt. (Intentional screwing up to keep an existing record in tact) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Another point I think rules should take into account is the announcement time. 10 minutes does not suffice in my opinion. I think everyone should be given the chance to practice and try to join a record attempt. Just because your dropzone has the potential to break a record that day can also make other people feel like they have been excluded from the chance.

That's total nonsense. It's competitive skydiving, not standing around a bonfire singing kumbaya. Just because you're not at the dropzone you don't get to dictate terms to people that are. What happens if the event is announced but some people already know they have to work on those dates or are otherwise committed? Sorry guys, everyone else change your plans so I can join in?

In reply to:
PS: If Simon would have pulled it off cleanly I'd bet 90% of the people would be cheering for him now.

Stupid is still stupid whether you pull it off or not. And, as evidenced by the fact that he didn't pull it off, it was pretty stupid. And I think most people would still recognise a classless move anyway.


JeffCa  (B License)

Nov 6, 2013, 5:25 PM
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Re: [airtwardo] Rumor of someone throwing a record attempt. (Intentional screwing up to keep an existing record in tact) [In reply to] Can't Post

I have nothing at all to do with this. I'm new to the sport, have never been on any kind of record attempt except for a spontaneous attempt at worst-ever 5-way exit last weekend. I also have never (intentionally) done any headdown flying. So I think I can also be objective.

Here in Japan, it seems to be considered a way of honouring somebody to aim for and to break their record. You are inspired by the other person's efforts and it gives you a goal to shoot for, so it's flattering, in a way.

I come from a physics background, so I'm going to use one of my favourite science quotes here. Sir Isaac Newton was one of the most important scientists who ever lived. The guy was so fucking brilliant that when his university temporarily closed for the plague, he went home and used the time to invent calculus. He is more famous for his contributions to our understanding of gravity and motion, but also contributed heavily to optics, thermodynamics, and other branches of math. It is difficult to imagine how far behind we might be today if not for him. He was famously quoted as writing in a letter to a colleague (paraphrased), "If I have seen farther, it was by standing on the shoulders of giants." He meant that without the contributions of those great minds who came before him, he could never have accomplished what he did. They propped him up, as he props up our scientists today.

Skydiving is a sport that has changed dramatically in a very short time. Unlike something like baseball, which really has changed very little over the last 100 years, skydiving has had enormous improvements in equipment, techniques and has spawned entirely new disciplines. We are in the position we're in today because of those who came before (many of which are still here, our sport being so young). People have literally lost their lives exposing the flaws with old gear designs, leading to the incredibly safe rig you wear on your back today. Before there were 100-ways, somebody had to make the first 4-way.

We seem to have a situation here in which one group which put a lot of effort into planning and completing a record had their record broken by a group which did no planning at all. What does that say about the old record then? I'm sure the first 4-ways and 10-ways took some planning, but now we just throw them together on a couple of minutes notice. We are not pissing on the efforts of those who laid the groundwork, we are inspired and supported by them. We stand on their shoulders. In the future, others will stand on yours. When you set a record, you are inspiring and propping up those who will come later and break it, just as you were supported by the people who made that first 4-way.

Next time you attempt a large formation, or set a record, or just land safely under your well-designed modern gear, give a thought for the shoulders that you stand on. You don't have to know their names, when or where it was, just that they existed and they did it. Know that you will return the favour to the future, even if that future begins just 2 months from now.


(This post was edited by JeffCa on Nov 6, 2013, 5:52 PM)


hookitt  (D License)

Nov 6, 2013, 5:28 PM
Post #89 of 229 (5570 views)
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Re: [MalcolmR] Rumor of someone throwing a record attempt. (Intentional screwing up to keep an existing record in tact) [In reply to] Can't Post

 
.
.
.

Quote:
What drives your competitive spirit?
I hate watching myself do something on video that I know I could have done better.

.
.
.

Ahhh bugger.


Premier wmw999  (D 6296)

Nov 6, 2013, 5:46 PM
Post #90 of 229 (5456 views)
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Re: [JeffCa] Rumor of someone throwing a record attempt. (Intentional screwing up to keep an existing record in tact) [In reply to] Can't Post

I think I love you. And here I wasn't going to post in this thread, but dang -- that was a really great post!

Wendy P.


pms07  (D 7571)

Nov 6, 2013, 6:07 PM
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Re: [chuckakers] Rumor of someone throwing a record attempt. (Intentional screwing up to keep an existing record in tact) [In reply to] Can't Post

chuckakers wrote:

I don't have a dog in this hunt, so I think I can speak objectively here. Some of you folks are way off base with this state record stuff.

State records are classified by WHERE the record was made, not by WHO made it. The amount of time between records means NOTHING. Who is on the load vs where the load occurs means NOTHING. In state, out of state, money spent, miles driven - all of that means NOTHING.

Did it occur to anyone that the Cali folks traveled all the way to Texas for this event, bringing their Cali dollars to a Texas DZ and specifically choosing a Texas DZ OVER a Cali DZ where they held the event previously? Did anyone consider that they - by everything I've heard - had no intention of coming to break a record and only did so when they saw that they had a group that could pull it off? Did anyone consider that if the roles were reversed the same thing may have occurred? Do you really think a bunch of Texans would refrain from attempting a record in Cali just because another record had been established 2 month earlier? Hell no they wouldn't. How is it that some of you think things should be different in Texas? Are we really that full of ourselves???

Some of you are making it sound like the Cali gang didn't have the right to do what they did, or that they somehow broke some unwritten rule of record etiquette.

Butch up, people. As has been said before, records are made to be broken. Getting your girly panties wadded up because YOU don't think enough time has passed since the previous record or YOU don't like the people chosen to participate is crap. Y'all are making Texas jumpers look like a bunch of pussy whiners - knock it off.

It's especially insulting that some are using the impromptu record effort to justify Simon's actions - saying he was "defending" the Texas record. Have you lost your minds?

If there's any wrong in this it belongs to the guy who made an ass of himself and put other people in harm's way because he couldn't keep his ego in check.

That was very well said Chuck and I appreciate your expressing it. I've been on an actual FAI world record that stood for about a month and thought the best way to respond was to buy the organizer of the new record a beer. Roger N. gladly accepted... Anyway, this guy probably needs to think about moving on to other less stressful activities. That type of decision-making is scary...


(This post was edited by pms07 on Nov 6, 2013, 6:12 PM)


cbjetboy  (D 33207)

Nov 6, 2013, 6:10 PM
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Re: [chuckakers] Rumor of someone throwing a record attempt. (Intentional screwing up to keep an existing record in tact) [In reply to] Can't Post

chuckakers wrote:

And finally, you seem to think there was something inherently wrong about the way things happened. I don't. These were jumpers who paid their own way to come to Texas, paid their own way onto the planes, paid for their own accommodations, food, rental cars, gas, and maybe even some whiskey, blow, and hookers. How is it that those folks should feel obligated to seek the approval of ANYONE before any particular skydive, record attempt or not? These were paying customers doing their thing and they don't owe anyone anything.

I do think some of them are owed an apology, though. Texas skydiving is better than this petty crap.

5 left and cut.


Skydive Spaceland is my home DZ (awesome DZ), Chuck Akers is a close friend and mentor and the Boyds (Stephen in this case) are all top notch people. I know Simon from being around him and have personally seen him help many jumpers, including myself, with advice and suggestions. I hate to see this happen and wish it never had. Skydiving and the skydiving family is one of the best things in my life. I was there that day and saw most of this happen. I don't know the specifics and I also don't know the people well enough to comment beyond what I have said. As far as the Cali guys/gals go I think they rock! I met most of them and they were all super friendly...even to a belly guy like myself. Cool I hope to see them all again at Spaceland and congratulate them on their achievement. With all of that being said I wish Simon the best on getting past this, regaining trust and friendships and hope he makes every effort to make it right. I hope the Cali peeps Keep Calm, take a deep breath and try to think of Texas and Texans in a good way...because we rock!! Wink I look forward to the day our family is happy again and we have sick head down videos and awesome jump pics online instead of all this ugliness. Blue skies doods!!
P.S. I accidentally cut off some of the Cali peeps on final and they talked to me like family and accepted my apologies, gave me some high fives and even a hug. I learned something from it and gained some new friends. I hope I didn't get the last of that. I know there is a little bit left in them...I hope.


Premier skymama  (D 26699)
Moderator
Nov 6, 2013, 6:11 PM
Post #93 of 229 (5347 views)
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Re: [MisterCrash] Rumor of someone throwing a record attempt. (Intentional screwing up to keep an existing record in tact) [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I do think Simon made a bad decision. If you don't agree with a jump you should just leave the group. This triggers those peoples minds into thinking about your decision.

I agree. We should always stand up for our convictions, but we should also always take the high road. Being spiteful and vindictive doesn't serve any purpose. Simon's behavior will be remembered for a long time and will probably surpass the good he's done for the sport. It's sad, really.


Squeak  (E 1313)

Nov 6, 2013, 6:12 PM
Post #94 of 229 (5342 views)
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Re: [JeffCa] Rumor of someone throwing a record attempt. (Intentional screwing up to keep an existing record in tact) [In reply to] Can't Post

JeffCa wrote:
I have nothing at all to do with this. I'm new to the sport, have never been on any kind of record attempt except for a spontaneous attempt at worst-ever 5-way exit last weekend. I also have never (intentionally) done any headdown flying. So I think I can also be objective.

Here in Japan, it seems to be considered a way of honouring somebody to aim for and to break their record. You are inspired by the other person's efforts and it gives you a goal to shoot for, so it's flattering, in a way.

I come from a physics background, so I'm going to use one of my favourite science quotes here. Sir Isaac Newton was one of the most important scientists who ever lived. The guy was so fucking brilliant that when his university temporarily closed for the plague, he went home and used the time to invent calculus. He is more famous for his contributions to our understanding of gravity and motion, but also contributed heavily to optics, thermodynamics, and other branches of math. It is difficult to imagine how far behind we might be today if not for him. He was famously quoted as writing in a letter to a colleague (paraphrased), "If I have seen farther, it was by standing on the shoulders of giants." He meant that without the contributions of those great minds who came before him, he could never have accomplished what he did. They propped him up, as he props up our scientists today.

Skydiving is a sport that has changed dramatically in a very short time. Unlike something like baseball, which really has changed very little over the last 100 years, skydiving has had enormous improvements in equipment, techniques and has spawned entirely new disciplines. We are in the position we're in today because of those who came before (many of which are still here, our sport being so young). People have literally lost their lives exposing the flaws with old gear designs, leading to the incredibly safe rig you wear on your back today. Before there were 100-ways, somebody had to make the first 4-way.

We seem to have a situation here in which one group which put a lot of effort into planning and completing a record had their record broken by a group which did no planning at all. What does that say about the old record then? I'm sure the first 4-ways and 10-ways took some planning, but now we just throw them together on a couple of minutes notice. We are not pissing on the efforts of those who laid the groundwork, we are inspired and supported by them. We stand on their shoulders. In the future, others will stand on yours. When you set a record, you are inspiring and propping up those who will come later and break it, just as you were supported by the people who made that first 4-way.

Next time you attempt a large formation, or set a record, or just land safely under your well-designed modern gear, give a thought for the shoulders that you stand on. You don't have to know their names, when or where it was, just that they existed and they did it. Know that you will return the favour to the future, even if that future begins just 2 months from now.


Newbie (not Noob) "Post of the Year", nominee SmileSmile


oldwomanc6

Nov 6, 2013, 6:13 PM
Post #95 of 229 (5330 views)
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Here! Here!

Excellent post!


chuckakers  (D 10855)

Nov 6, 2013, 6:34 PM
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Re: [MisterCrash] Rumor of someone throwing a record attempt. (Intentional screwing up to keep an existing record in tact) [In reply to] Can't Post

MisterCrash wrote:
I'm more afraid of all the hatred I see appearing towards Simon. Yes he made a mistake and he did endanger people. While I do think some kind of measures should be taken by the appropriate people I also think more people should think about the reason that drove him to it.

There's a difference between hatred for a person and disdain for a person's actions. The mistake Bones made wasn't flying head up on a delicate, fast head down jump. His mistake was having the extremely poor judgment and the complete lack of respect for the safety and success of his fellow jumpers to do it in the first place.

That's what drove him and THAT'S the problem.


ouch

Nov 6, 2013, 6:39 PM
Post #97 of 229 (5197 views)
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Re: [Squeak] Rumor of someone throwing a record attempt. (Intentional screwing up to keep an existing record in tact) [In reply to] Can't Post

Agree wholeheartedly.

And he/she did it all with good old fashioned English plus a smattering of punctuation.

Not an emoticon in sight!


chuckakers  (D 10855)

Nov 6, 2013, 6:41 PM
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Re: [cbjetboy] Rumor of someone throwing a record attempt. (Intentional screwing up to keep an existing record in tact) [In reply to] Can't Post

cbjetboy wrote:
I accidentally cut off some of the Cali peeps on final and they talked to me like family and accepted my apologies, gave me some high fives and even a hug.

That


airtwardo  (D License)

Nov 6, 2013, 6:51 PM
Post #99 of 229 (5146 views)
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Re: [chuckakers] Rumor of someone throwing a record attempt. (Intentional screwing up to keep an existing record in tact) [In reply to] Can't Post

chuckakers wrote:
MisterCrash wrote:
I'm more afraid of all the hatred I see appearing towards Simon. Yes he made a mistake and he did endanger people. While I do think some kind of measures should be taken by the appropriate people I also think more people should think about the reason that drove him to it.

There's a difference between hatred for a person and disdain for a person's actions. The mistake Bones made wasn't flying head up on a delicate, fast head down jump. His mistake was having the extremely poor judgment and the complete lack of respect for the safety and success of his fellow jumpers to do it in the first place.

That's what drove him and THAT'S the problem.

I've seen things like this happen a few times in the sport...

NOW is when the true character come out.

Some guys hang, work hard & regain trust, some head for the hills and are never heard from again.

Some ignore the lashing and just keep keepin' on, never addressing the situation...often they're still a pariah in some circles.

Heck one guy I know did a dime in the Fed-Pen & half the sport was horrified at how 'bad' he made us all look - did his time, came out a better man and changed the sport for the better forever!

Simon has given a lot to the sport, now he 'boned' some people in a big way...time will tell, but I'd bet he can make it right...I hope he's 'that' kind of guy.


pms07  (D 7571)

Nov 6, 2013, 7:05 PM
Post #100 of 229 (5075 views)
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Re: [MisterCrash] Rumor of someone throwing a record attempt. (Intentional screwing up to keep an existing record in tact) [In reply to] Can't Post

MisterCrash wrote:

PS: If Simon would have pulled it off cleanly I'd bet 90% of the people would be cheering for him now. Too bad for him, he didn't.

Wait, what are you saying? Succeeding in sabotaging a jump and potentially endangering people would be cheered? By who? And why? Records are made to be broken and being ass hurt because "your" state record might be broken is infantile.

The rules are what they are. If you find them unsatisfactory, feel free to lobby the USPA and or IPC. That's how you make a positive change.

I also find your use of the word "steal" fascinating. If people follow the rules and set a record, how is that "stealing"? Your idea of how records works doesn't seem to intersect with reality...


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