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I almost died today.

 

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sundevil777  (D License)

Jul 15, 2013, 9:35 PM
Post #76 of 88 (1745 views)
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Re: [vanessalh] I almost died today. [In reply to] Can't Post

As others have suggested, visually checking for proper chest strap routing on the rigs of others is a great idea. You might notice a mistake, and I think it is very unlikely that if on every jump you take a good amount of time to confirm that others have done it right, I think it is especially unlikely that you could make the mistake of checking your own gear and not notice if it was done wrong. I caught a misrouted cutaway housing (through the large ring) on the way to altitude because I was looking for problems - you have to spend a lot of time to confirm the gear of others, so it is natural to do a real check of your own at the same time.


(This post was edited by sundevil777 on Jul 15, 2013, 9:50 PM)


Greell  (B License)

Jul 15, 2013, 9:44 PM
Post #77 of 88 (1727 views)
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Re: [JerryBaumchen] I almost died today. [In reply to] Can't Post

JerryBaumchen wrote:
Hi Greell,

Quote:
Remember that a chest strap is NOT designed to be a load bearing strap.

I could not disagree more with this.

People have died because of undone chest straps and chest straps that have torn out on opening.

If a chest strap can tear out on opening then it is taking a fair amount of the opening forces.

If you really believe this, why do you hook up your chest strap before you jump?

Tongue

JerryBaumchen

Let me rephrase my meaning....It is load bearing "enough" for it's purpose. It wasn't designed to be as load bearing as, say, your leg straps. I simply meant that, if you are in freefall, and your chest strap is undone...You can still cross your arms elbow to elbow when you pull, to mimic a chest strap.

Now if your opening is hard enough to rip your chest strap when it's just your arms crossed...you might be sore. but you'll still get the job done.


airtwardo  (D License)

Jul 16, 2013, 12:51 AM
Post #78 of 88 (1667 views)
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Re: [Greell] I almost died today. [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Now if your opening is hard enough to rip your chest strap when it's just your arms crossed...you might be sore. but you'll still get the job done.


Just curious Chuck...is that an opinion based on hard data, personal experience?


Greell  (B License)

Jul 16, 2013, 6:40 AM
Post #79 of 88 (1599 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] I almost died today. [In reply to] Can't Post

Nah luckily not personal experience, but I think if my chest strap wasn't on and I was going to cross my arms to brace when I opened....i'd hold on pretty damn tight. And if it was a hard opening, just knowing how much force that's going to absorb, I imagine it won't feel too good :)

But what do I know, i've never been put in that situation, so it's an assumption....and you know what they say about assumptions.


DrDom  (Student)

Aug 4, 2013, 10:43 AM
Post #80 of 88 (1359 views)
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Why so much hate? [In reply to] Can't Post

There is a strange feeling on this post of people not understanding the poster. First, as a blogger, she did the single most important thing: got people to read and think. You may disagree with the title but experience of "near death" is relative. One does not need to be imminently in danger to save their life. Pulling a chute and saying you saved your life is certainly an odd way but only because it is EXPECTED as the sport. Its like saying you stopped at the bottom of a mountain skiing and saved your life. Sure, it would not be untruth, but not reality. In this case, would you have preferred that the noticed it after pull and had to catch herself, is that close enough? How about if she slipped 75% out of her harness? Or noticed it on the ground?

Its so easy to berate the poster/blogger but I think it takes a lot of courage to post anything in front of an audience that seems to chomp at the bit like this. If she felt she nearly died because of a gear error and never again makes the mistake... is that not worth it? If someone NEW like ME reads this and now understands the complexity of a chest strap and how much of a misadventure one can have because of it... is the title not fine?

Once upon a time I remember a similar discussion while I was at work. A police officer came in and had been shot but the round hit dead center of his body armour in a thing called a "trauma plate" (its a small area mid chest where there is an extra panel for chest shots to absorb more of the force). The officer had a ton of pain but was fine. One officer (he was probably in his late 50's) said "You are lucky, you nearly died". His younger companion (a fresh-out rookie) remarked "You didn't almost die, you were wearing body armour for Christ's sake".

How close to death is enough to feel like you almost died? How much do you want to scare people from making these points? Are we better people for berating others' choice of words? You're a community. One I hoped to be part of. Lets work together and try to embrace each other instead of just focusing on making a point to the OP


unkulunkulu  (C License)

Aug 4, 2013, 11:50 PM
Post #81 of 88 (1300 views)
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Re: [DrDom] Why so much hate? [In reply to] Can't Post

Ok, now I am finally able to express what bothers me about this thread.

The problem is: the misrouted chest strap is an obvious, simple hazard. You just have to route it, that's all! Why dedicate so much attention to it? Just route it, check a couple of times in the plane, check your friends. I feel that there are many more subtle hazards in this sport that require thought and reiteration and with Vanessa's experience it's time to dedicate more thought to those, why distract thought to this issue? I see a real problem here.


Nataly  (C 41225)

Aug 5, 2013, 12:44 AM
Post #82 of 88 (1273 views)
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Re: [unkulunkulu] Why so much hate? [In reply to] Can't Post

Urgh. Can we not lock this thread? I don't think we will get anything useful out of it anymore...


kuai43  (C License)

Aug 5, 2013, 3:38 AM
Post #83 of 88 (1238 views)
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Re: [unkulunkulu] Why so much hate? [In reply to] Can't Post

unkulunkulu wrote:
Ok, now I am finally able to express what bothers me about this thread.

The problem is: the misrouted chest strap is an obvious, simple hazard. You just have to route it, that's all! Why dedicate so much attention to it? Just route it, check a couple of times in the plane, check your friends. I feel that there are many more subtle hazards in this sport that require thought and reiteration and with Vanessa's experience it's time to dedicate more thought to those, why distract thought to this issue? I see a real problem here.

Yes, absolutely! Hear, hear! Fuck all that noise about checking pins & pilot chutes. For that matter, don't wear seat belts in your car, or make sure your mirrors are adjusted. After all, there are subtle things that are going to get you.

I'll go first... Unkulunklunkalooo: Sept 7th, 2:30pm.


unkulunkulu  (C License)

Aug 5, 2013, 3:50 AM
Post #84 of 88 (1224 views)
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Re: [kuai43] Why so much hate? [In reply to] Can't Post

kuai43 wrote:
Yes, absolutely! Hear, hear! Fuck all that noise about checking pins & pilot chutes. For that matter, don't wear seat belts in your car, or make sure your mirrors are adjusted. After all, there are subtle things that are going to get you.

I'll go first... Unkulunklunkalooo: Sept 7th, 2:30pm.
Is it trolling or something? Did I mention pins, pilot chutes? For that matter, yes, the pin is one of those more difficult things. Chest strap: it's right there in front of your nose just check it, couldn't imagine a simpler thing in skydiving.


devildog  (C 40302)

Aug 5, 2013, 4:08 AM
Post #85 of 88 (1209 views)
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Re: [DrDom] Why so much hate? [In reply to] Can't Post

DrDom wrote:
How close to death is enough to feel like you almost died? How much do you want to scare people from making these points? Are we better people for berating others' choice of words? You're a community. One I hoped to be part of. Lets work together and try to embrace each other instead of just focusing on making a point to the OP

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b90EzNNrQ2M
That would do it for, "How close to death is enough to feel like you almost died?". That guy with a loose cheststrap, had he not had an AAD, would be a pancake right now.

Catching a gear error on someone before they even board the plane is closer to "normal" than it is to "almost died." Hell, I must have saved a few student lives by now if all I had to do to "save" them was to say, "Hey...what about this?" Wink


ChrisD  (No License)

Aug 9, 2013, 8:56 AM
Post #86 of 88 (1045 views)
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Re: [Nataly] Why so much hate? [In reply to] Can't Post

Nataly wrote:
Urgh. Can we not lock this thread? I don't think we will get anything useful out of it anymore...


While on some levels I would agree with you, but.

How you support your community does in fact matter.

Stereotypes kill, and your perpetuating a stereotype with your comments.

If everyone was in fact giving each other gear checks the community in itself may in fact promote safety as compared with blaming individuals for their own predicaments.

The Hawaii tail strike illustrates this quite well! If the other jumpers on board had given the individual a little coaching and support about the differences and configuration of differing aircraft, had taken a moment so to speak, that individual would still be here!

The next generation in safety is changing the system so that everyone can understand how our environment has an effect upon us all.

Telling someone to shut the fuck up isn't going to help.
In fact I could continue this negativity and perpetuate the stereotype by saying something like "you are free to read or not read whatever you like."

But that isn't going to help anyone.

I can understand you frustration.

Do you understand theirs?

It's not about you, it's about them, and understanding them takes a lot of work and an open and accepting mind.

C

Smile


DrDom  (Student)

Aug 26, 2013, 3:22 AM
Post #87 of 88 (840 views)
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Re: [ChrisD] Why so much hate? [In reply to] Can't Post

ChrisD wrote:
Nataly wrote:
Urgh. Can we not lock this thread? I don't think we will get anything useful out of it anymore...


While on some levels I would agree with you, but.

How you support your community does in fact matter.

Stereotypes kill, and your perpetuating a stereotype with your comments.

If everyone was in fact giving each other gear checks the community in itself may in fact promote safety as compared with blaming individuals for their own predicaments.

The Hawaii tail strike illustrates this quite well! If the other jumpers on board had given the individual a little coaching and support about the differences and configuration of differing aircraft, had taken a moment so to speak, that individual would still be here!

The next generation in safety is changing the system so that everyone can understand how our environment has an effect upon us all.

Telling someone to shut the fuck up isn't going to help.
In fact I could continue this negativity and perpetuate the stereotype by saying something like "you are free to read or not read whatever you like."

But that isn't going to help anyone.

I can understand you frustration.

Do you understand theirs?

It's not about you, it's about them, and understanding them takes a lot of work and an open and accepting mind.

C

Smile

I think ChrisD speaks well of how we should act. Lets criticize less and encourage more. There is another thread about "should I have cut away"... why are we chastizing people for making decisions or helping others to note a potentially fatal problem? We should be able to discuss this like the intelligent adults we are. If you can jump from a plane, freefall, manage a canopy, understand the complexity of flight, and not kill yourself... you certainly can be a positive source of light for your community and not just lash out in anger and disregard. You may not see this as "lifesaving" but more "mundane"... but I see it as a person who is willing to expose a personal mistake to provide a reminder to the rest of us.
But hey... I'm the new guy so maybe my opinion and $2 gets you a small coffee at Starbucks.


Di0  (C 42151)

Sep 3, 2013, 12:21 PM
Post #88 of 88 (542 views)
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Re: [vanessalh] I almost died today. [In reply to] Can't Post

Well, for what is worth, yesterday I did misroute my chestwrap (jumping without having slept in 36 hours and having had anything to eat in 24 is probably not a good idea, the things peer pressure does to you when you show up at the DZ lol), by passing it on top of the clasp instead than inside. Making that mistake is easier than I honestly thought.
But as upset at me as I was, since I totally don't recall "doing" the mistake and it stayed that way for some time as I was walking around, I'm at least proud to say that I caught that myself because, after reading this topic, I now check the harness wraps much more carefully and many times. I'm still on student-status, so my coach would have noticed that with a 99.9% chance, but again: glad it wasn't necessary to get to that point. I started doing this "escape from harness test" as soon as I put it on and close my wraps, since I use student rental gear that can be set to a wrong size, I try to sneak my shoulders out of the harness, if I can with some effort, I ask a coach or instructor to tight up my rig, I don't care if they say it's tight enough.
If there is no way for me to push my shoulders out of it, I'm happy and I move on with my regular gear check. Yesterday, I noticed something "weird" as I was able to do so, and by looking around the harness, I noticed the problem.


(This post was edited by Di0 on Sep 3, 2013, 12:22 PM)


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