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I almost died today.

 

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vanessalh  (D 33301)

Jul 14, 2013, 9:08 PM
Post #51 of 88 (1785 views)
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Re: [nigel99] I almost died today. [In reply to] Can't Post

Great idea to switch focus to expecting to find a problem. Someone on fb mentioned to look for what is wrong not what is right. You're more likely to find what you're looking for after all :)

Yikes on your instructor missing that. Wow. Glad someone else caught it.


ManagingPrime

Jul 14, 2013, 9:19 PM
Post #52 of 88 (1768 views)
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Re: [vanessalh] I almost died today. [In reply to] Can't Post

vanessalh wrote:
And to all the folks who had a good chuckle at my "overdramatized" experience, I've got one question for you - what do you do when you have a serious lapse in your safety procedures?

Analyze and don't repeat.

Posting on DZ.com is a mixed bag. You can get valuable feedback if you can filter through the noise and you can share an experience that others can learn from. You can also elicit the ire of other jumpers who can view your post as over-dramatized or self-aggrandizing... it's a difficult medium for communication.

I could have created a thread about the "near death experience" I had today... no shit...I really thought I was going to buy the farm, but my mistake was on the level, worse actually, of misrouting a chest strap...noob. But, just like a misrouted chest strap there is not much to be learned by the "community" from my experience. I knew exactly what mistakes I made that lead up to that "near death experience" and that was enough for me and the other jumper who I endangered.

That said, don't take the heat from the post seriously. Anyone who is prone to posting online is going to get flamed from time to time.

You like to blog and that's cool, you just have to consider your audience... at least one of your respondents did almost die in a "no shit I woke up a month later" kind of way and I don't recall them posting about it on DZ.com. There are A LOT of incidents, if not the vast majority, that never made it on this board and most here are aware of that fact. Again, consider your audience....

In the end though, it's great that we are reading this "over dramatized" thread instead of reading an incident report. Smile


airtwardo  (D License)

Jul 14, 2013, 9:40 PM
Post #53 of 88 (1754 views)
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Re: [vanessalh] I almost died today. [In reply to] Can't Post

vanessalh wrote:
Great idea to switch focus to expecting to find a problem. Someone on fb mentioned to look for what is wrong not what is right. You're more likely to find what you're looking for after all :)

Yikes on your instructor missing that. Wow. Glad someone else caught it.



My better half is a pilot who goes through training & check rides frequently...one of the best things I picked up from her is a statement they always make during the crew resource management discussions.

It's seems that 'when you have that funny feeling something isn't right - - more often than not, something IS wrong'

They encourage the crews to speak up, to start the routine over, to be more vigilante is the assessment of the aircraft...what ever it takes to get rid of that feeling.

I always keep the with me...if 'something' doesn't feel right - - -STOP and look hard.


Nataly  (C 41225)

Jul 14, 2013, 10:17 PM
Post #54 of 88 (1732 views)
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Re: [ManagingPrime] I almost died today. [In reply to] Can't Post

ManagingPrime wrote:
vanessalh wrote:
And to all the folks who had a good chuckle at my "overdramatized" experience, I've got one question for you - what do you do when you have a serious lapse in your safety procedures?

Analyze and don't repeat.

Posting on DZ.com is a mixed bag. You can get valuable feedback if you can filter through the noise and you can share an experience that others can learn from. You can also elicit the ire of other jumpers who can view your post as over-dramatized or self-aggrandizing... it's a difficult medium for communication.

I could have created a thread about the "near death experience" I had today... no shit...I really thought I was going to buy the farm, but my mistake was on the level, worse actually, of misrouting a chest strap...noob. But, just like a misrouted chest strap there is not much to be learned by the "community" from my experience. I knew exactly what mistakes I made that lead up to that "near death experience" and that was enough for me and the other jumper who I endangered.

That said, don't take the heat from the post seriously. Anyone who is prone to posting online is going to get flamed from time to time.

You like to blog and that's cool, you just have to consider your audience... at least one of your respondents did almost die in a "no shit I woke up a month later" kind of way and I don't recall them posting about it on DZ.com. There are A LOT of incidents, if not the vast majority, that never made it on this board and most here are aware of that fact. Again, consider your audience....

In the end though, it's great that we are reading this "over dramatized" thread instead of reading an incident report. Smile

/\ /\ /\ THIS.

Poor choice of words (for this crowd). Like telling a room full of war-veterans about almost getting hurt... Unimpressed

Unfortunately, you can be right all day long, you will never "win" an argument just by being right - you have to also deliver the information in an effective maner. I suspect that the people minimising the event are reacting more to the "drama" than anything else - I don't think anyone really believes misrouting your chest-strap is no big deal (if they did, they wouldn't bother putting it on at all, and there would be a lot more posts in the Incidents forum!).

All things considered, a lot of people DO remember what it's like to be a newbie and for that reason HAVE made an effort to draw out the good stuff in your post. For example, Nigel99 nicely points out that routine, expected outcomes and complacency all play a role in making mistakes... I couldn't agree more. Like turning off the stove after cooking something... My mom regularly forgot this as she was absent-mindedly doing a million things at a time, and I'm SUPER paranoid about it as a result, because she once partially set fire to the kitchen... But I did come home once and my stove-top had been on all day!!! It happens. You can't do everything right every time. Occasionally, a good scare is the BEST way to learn because nothing bad happened, yet you still realised your mistake. Good for you for sharing; do consider your crowd, though. Tongue


(This post was edited by Nataly on Jul 14, 2013, 10:38 PM)


vanessalh  (D 33301)

Jul 14, 2013, 10:48 PM
Post #55 of 88 (1721 views)
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Re: [ManagingPrime] I almost died today. [In reply to] Can't Post

:) Thanks ManagingPrime - always great to hear a little encouragement.

I don't take comments personally - after all, this is the Internet, if I took every comment personally I would have serious psychological issues within a few months ;)

I'll admit I was surprised at how quickly it turned negative on dz.com (as compared w/ responses from skydivers on fb -where I know ppl or g+ - where I don't know ppl).

I had always thought dz.com would be a great place for folks new to the sport to learn more. I know I had a ton of questions about skydiving when I started (still do) - why, how, when, etc. and was interested to get perspectives of the broader skydiving community.

I'm discovering that mixed in with the thoughtful and well reasoned responses there is a lot of replies that go something like, "you should already know this, why are you asking?" or "that's nothing special" or in a response to a question seeking to learn a new technique "don't do this you'll die - without further explanation". Along with a lot of folks who never seem to make a mistake, and an equal number who deride people who do admit to mistakes.

Thankfully I don't see this as much at the dropzone in person, but where I do it can make the sport feel intimidating and unwelcoming.

I'll keep sharing my experiences, and doing my best to make skydiving an approachable and safe sport for everyone. I'm hopeful that some of the threads I've seen in the last year are not representative of the general tone here.


vanessalh  (D 33301)

Jul 14, 2013, 10:52 PM
Post #56 of 88 (1720 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] I almost died today. [In reply to] Can't Post

airtwardo wrote:
It's seems that 'when you have that funny feeling something isn't right - - more often than not, something IS wrong'

So true - often your unconscious mind will perceive something still on the edge of consciousness. My boyfriend told me about a time he was on the plane and got this funny feeling. He ended up landing with the plane, and on unpacking his main noticed a line over.


jurgencamps  (D License)

Jul 15, 2013, 12:20 AM
Post #57 of 88 (1687 views)
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Re: [vanessalh] I almost died today. [In reply to] Can't Post

The lesson is that we all will make mistakes. This is something we have to accept.
Those who state that they never will make this or another mistake, will never learn THE lesson.
The lesson is: it is very important to have a system to find the mistake, before it poses a problem. Check before you board and check before you jump.
Thx for sharing your story.
Gr
Jurgen


airtwardo  (D License)

Jul 15, 2013, 12:45 AM
Post #58 of 88 (1663 views)
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Re: [jurgencamps] I almost died today. [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Those who state that they never will make this or another mistake, will never learn THE lesson.
The lesson is: it is very important to have a system to find the mistake, before it poses a problem.

OR...maybe they already know 'THE' lesson and they HAVE such a system in place - LaughLaugh


Greell  (B License)

Jul 15, 2013, 12:53 AM
Post #59 of 88 (1656 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] I almost died today. [In reply to] Can't Post

This is why we need to do gear checks. Not just on ourselves, but for our brothers and sisters too. Keep a vigilant eye, and if you see something...call it out.

I see so many people not doing gear checks these days, to cut some time getting to a now-call. It's crazy! Do your gear checks people.

If you're in free fall and you notice your chest strap undone or incorrectly routed....when you go to pull....pitch, grab your elbows (crossing your arms, hand to elbow) and look up (to not pitch downward causing bad stability)

Remember that a chest strap is NOT designed to be a load bearing strap. You can easily survive such a mistake, if you make it, and you notice it in time. Ideally the plan is "Don't make this mistake"....but it can happen.


nigel99  (D 1)

Jul 15, 2013, 1:21 AM
Post #60 of 88 (1651 views)
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Re: [Greell] I almost died today. [In reply to] Can't Post

Greell wrote:
This is why we need to do gear checks. Not just on ourselves, but for our brothers and sisters too. Keep a vigilant eye, and if you see something...call it out.

I see so many people not doing gear checks these days, to cut some time getting to a now-call. It's crazy! Do your gear checks people.

Actually I think this misses an important part of the lesson that could be learnt. Doing gear checks with the wrong mindset is as bad as not doing them at all.

It's interesting how 'obvious' things slip past us - a brilliant example is this experiment http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJG698U2Mvo


JackC1

Jul 15, 2013, 1:44 AM
Post #61 of 88 (1647 views)
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Re: [vanessalh] I almost died today. [In reply to] Can't Post

vanessalh wrote:
I'm hopeful that some of the threads I've seen in the last year are not representative of the general tone here.


Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'entrate


vanessalh  (D 33301)

Jul 15, 2013, 1:51 AM
Post #62 of 88 (1639 views)
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Re: [JackC1] I almost died today. [In reply to] Can't Post

JackC1 wrote:
Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'entrate

Haha :) There is always hope :)


devildog  (C 40302)

Jul 15, 2013, 5:29 AM
Post #63 of 88 (1560 views)
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Re: [Nataly] I almost died today. [In reply to] Can't Post

Nataly wrote:
ManagingPrime wrote:
vanessalh wrote:
And to all the folks who had a good chuckle at my "overdramatized" experience, I've got one question for you - what do you do when you have a serious lapse in your safety procedures?

Analyze and don't repeat.

Posting on DZ.com is a mixed bag. You can get valuable feedback if you can filter through the noise and you can share an experience that others can learn from. You can also elicit the ire of other jumpers who can view your post as over-dramatized or self-aggrandizing... it's a difficult medium for communication.

I could have created a thread about the "near death experience" I had today... no shit...I really thought I was going to buy the farm, but my mistake was on the level, worse actually, of misrouting a chest strap...noob. But, just like a misrouted chest strap there is not much to be learned by the "community" from my experience. I knew exactly what mistakes I made that lead up to that "near death experience" and that was enough for me and the other jumper who I endangered.

That said, don't take the heat from the post seriously. Anyone who is prone to posting online is going to get flamed from time to time.

You like to blog and that's cool, you just have to consider your audience... at least one of your respondents did almost die in a "no shit I woke up a month later" kind of way and I don't recall them posting about it on DZ.com. There are A LOT of incidents, if not the vast majority, that never made it on this board and most here are aware of that fact. Again, consider your audience....

In the end though, it's great that we are reading this "over dramatized" thread instead of reading an incident report. Smile

/\ /\ /\ THIS.

Poor choice of words (for this crowd). Like telling a room full of war-veterans about almost getting hurt... Unimpressed

Good analogy.


normiss  (D 28356)

Jul 15, 2013, 7:48 AM
Post #64 of 88 (1503 views)
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Re: [vanessalh] I almost died today. [In reply to] Can't Post

I can't wait for his response.
LaughLaughLaugh


airtwardo  (D License)

Jul 15, 2013, 7:55 AM
Post #65 of 88 (1495 views)
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Re: [normiss] I almost died today. [In reply to] Can't Post

normiss wrote:
I can't wait for his response.
LaughLaughLaugh

Yeah...prolly the wrong guy to ask that to huh? Wink


Nataly  (C 41225)

Jul 15, 2013, 9:17 AM
Post #66 of 88 (1412 views)
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Re: [nigel99] I almost died today. [In reply to] Can't Post

nigel99 wrote:
Greell wrote:
This is why we need to do gear checks. Not just on ourselves, but for our brothers and sisters too. Keep a vigilant eye, and if you see something...call it out.

I see so many people not doing gear checks these days, to cut some time getting to a now-call. It's crazy! Do your gear checks people.

Actually I think this misses an important part of the lesson that could be learnt. Doing gear checks with the wrong mindset is as bad as not doing them at all.

It's interesting how 'obvious' things slip past us - a brilliant example is this experiment http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJG698U2Mvo


Nthr gd xmpl s tht y cn prbbly rd ths txt vn thgh ll th vwls r mssng... Jst gs t shw hw gd w r t sng wht w wnt t s...


(This post was edited by Nataly on Jul 15, 2013, 9:19 AM)


3mpire  (C 39657)

Jul 15, 2013, 9:19 AM
Post #67 of 88 (1403 views)
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Re: [Nataly] I almost died today. [In reply to] Can't Post

don't be so dramatic Angelic


Greell  (B License)

Jul 15, 2013, 12:07 PM
Post #68 of 88 (1339 views)
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Re: [nigel99] I almost died today. [In reply to] Can't Post

nigel99 wrote:
Greell wrote:
This is why we need to do gear checks. Not just on ourselves, but for our brothers and sisters too. Keep a vigilant eye, and if you see something...call it out.

I see so many people not doing gear checks these days, to cut some time getting to a now-call. It's crazy! Do your gear checks people.

Actually I think this misses an important part of the lesson that could be learnt. Doing gear checks with the wrong mindset is as bad as not doing them at all.

It's interesting how 'obvious' things slip past us - a brilliant example is this experiment http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJG698U2Mvo

Depends on your mindset? What was yours?...my mindset is....do a gear check. I don't think it's any more complicated than that. Selective attention isn't ENTIRELY applicable because you're gearing up, checking your gear, and getting on a load....if you want to throw more variables in the mix...you're talking to other people, and maybe a dirt dive. Maybe you're even in a rush to get to a now-call.

You're not balancing on a high beam, while helicopters are swooping down with machine guns firing at you, and the building is on fire.

There isn't much going on when you are gearing up...just do the damn gear check.

Also, like I said (to cover my own ass)..." Ideally the plan is "Don't make this mistake"....but it can happen. "

Not saying you don't have a point....i'm just saying, lets not over complicate it.

Do your gear checks.


Liemberg  (Student)

Jul 15, 2013, 1:18 PM
Post #69 of 88 (1317 views)
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Re: [vanessalh] I almost died today. [In reply to] Can't Post

On checking stuff: Once upon a time I found myself cheking a Strong Dual Hawk tandem rig that has a strickt set of rules 'what to do in what order'.

On reaching opening altitude you must:

1) release drogue with Master ripcord
2) If drogue not released pull passenger ripcord
3) If drogue still not released pull silver/reserve

As it happened. someone called my name and asked me a question right in the middle of that check.

Later on in the narrative I pulled the Master drogue release but kept speeding towards 'terra firma' - the drogue would not release.

Faster than I am able to write this down i said to myself: 'both loops on the passengers ripcord in stead of one loop on each ripcord cannot possibly be the problem for I distinctly remember pulling the drogue attachment out and visualy checking it -so there's no need to go for the passengers ripcord!'

I DEVIATED FROM PRESCRIBED PROCEDURES,SINCE I WAS ABSOLUTLY SURE ABOUT WHAT COULD AND COULD NOT BE HAPPENING.

In stead I went directly for silver (duh...)

Guess what... CrazyBlushCrazyBlushCrazyBlush

The trouble with routinely checking the same thing again and again and again is that you tend to not actually observe what is right in front of your eyes but see (or should I say 'halucinate'?) what you are expecting to see...

There is a lesson somewhere in the above... TongueCool


airtwardo  (D License)

Jul 15, 2013, 1:39 PM
Post #70 of 88 (1290 views)
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Re: [Greell] I almost died today. [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Not saying you don't have a point....i'm just saying, lets not over complicate it.

Do your gear checks.

Yup...it's not Rocket Surgery, make sure the parachute is in working order and is on right.

When you get down to the heart of the matter...that's REALLY what the FIRST priority HAS to be in order to survive freefall.

I check my pins, handles & hardware before putting it on.

I check the handles & hardware before boarding the plane.

I do 3 checks of 3's while IN the aircraft - one - prior to takeoff, two - at a grand when the seatbelts are removed & #3 - again once more on jumprun.

Been doing it that way since I started Skydiving, think about what you're doing any why - - what the consequences are for missing something important.

THAT tends to get it prioritized correctly & that the proper attention given.

~ If as in the OP's case, something was caught early - good, I would sit & think hard about why 'something' other than the #1 priority got in the mix.

I think she's done that with the thread & blog...kinda doubt she'll LET herself make that mistake again.

Cool


vanessalh  (D 33301)

Jul 15, 2013, 2:41 PM
Post #71 of 88 (1229 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] I almost died today. [In reply to] Can't Post

airtwardo wrote:

~ If as in the OP's case, something was caught early - good, I would sit & think hard about why 'something' other than the #1 priority got in the mix.

I think she's done that with the thread & blog...kinda doubt she'll LET herself make that mistake again.

Cool

Yup, I've got a world of other mistakes waiting to be made, but I think I'm through with this one :)


JerryBaumchen  (D 1543)

Jul 15, 2013, 3:06 PM
Post #72 of 88 (1156 views)
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Re: [Greell] I almost died today. [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Greell,

Quote:
Remember that a chest strap is NOT designed to be a load bearing strap.

I could not disagree more with this.

People have died because of undone chest straps and chest straps that have torn out on opening.

If a chest strap can tear out on opening then it is taking a fair amount of the opening forces.

If you really believe this, why do you hook up your chest strap before you jump?

Tongue

JerryBaumchen


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Jul 15, 2013, 4:37 PM
Post #73 of 88 (1123 views)
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Re: [JerryBaumchen] I almost died today. [In reply to] Can't Post

>If you really believe this, why do you hook up your chest strap before you jump?

It decreases the odds of falling out of my rig. And it keeps the end of the chest strap from flapping around and annoying me.


beeman  (A 65979)

Jul 15, 2013, 5:46 PM
Post #74 of 88 (1097 views)
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Re: [Greell] I almost died today. [In reply to] Can't Post

Greell wrote:
Depends on your mindset? What was yours?...my mindset is....do a gear check. I don't think it's any more complicated than that.

I think I get what he's trying to say, and if I'm right then I agree with Nigel. There's a third option - do an insufficient gear check.

What I mean is things like tugging on a chest strap and calling it good. I agree with Nigel and think it's entirely possible to misroute it and have it pass that test. Two seconds of looking carefully at the adapter and you KNOW it's good. That said, I actually do both, many times before I leave the plane.

How many people that normally gear check have you seen throw a rig on for a now call and glance over everything without a pin check? How many of those people slept most of the way up? I've seen at least a few in 54 jumps. How many don't check handles before the door opens?

The notion that your brain is capable of filling in some pretty big gaps is absolutely correct. Bringing it back to the original point, the mindset difference is carefully to do the entire gear check, multiple times because you know the assumption that you caught everything and nothing has changed can very easily be wrong.

it's pretty much the same as saying your mindset is DO a gear check, but there is an attitude there, even if a simple one.


diablopilot  (D License)

Jul 15, 2013, 7:09 PM
Post #75 of 88 (1066 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] I almost died today. [In reply to] Can't Post

airtwardo wrote:
In reply to:
And to all the folks who had a good chuckle at my "over-dramatized" experience, I've got one question for you - what do you do when you have a serious lapse in your safety procedures?


Good question ~ I'll let you know when I have one. Wink

Ditto to that....


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